Crimea's parliament announces referendum on independence for May 25th - Polidicks

[QUOTE]With gunmen occupying the top floor of the building and the Russian flag flying from the roof, Crimea’s parliament passed a motion on Thursday calling for a referendum on this Russian-speaking region’s future as part of Ukraine. This Black Sea peninsula’s move toward autonomy – or some kind of association with Russia – was accompanied by fresh sabre-rattling from the Kremlin, which put fighter jets on alert a day after announcing snap military drills along its border with Ukraine. And, in his first statement in almost a week, the deposed Viktor Yanukovych said he had taken refuge in Russia from “extremists” in Ukraine who had threatened him with bodily harm. Moscow has denounced last week’s fall of Mr. Yanukovych and the rise of pro-Western forces in Kiev as an armed coup, and has refused to recognize the new government. Crimea was part of Russia for two centuries before Nikita Khrushechev transferred it to Soviet Ukraine in 1954, and the strategic region is still home to the warships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet. “I am addressing the Russian Black Sea Fleet command with a demand: all military servicemen should stay within the boundaries of the territories stipulated by the agreement,” Ukraine’s interim president, Oleksandr Turchynov, said Thursday. “Any movement of military servicemen with weapons outside this territory will be viewed as military aggression.” North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen used his Twitter account to warn Russia “not to take any action that can escalate tension or create misunderstanding.” Foreign Minister John Baird arrived in Kiev, and was expected to meet Friday with Mr. Turchynov and newly chosen Prime Minister Arseniy Yatseniuk – who was formally appointed Thursday – to express Canada’s support for the post-revolutionary government. Russian media reported that Mr. Yanukovych would hold a press conference Friday in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don. Ukraine’s new government has asked that the International Criminal Court open a case against Mr. Yanukovych for his role in violence that saw more than 80 people killed in Kiev last week. “I still consider myself to be the legitimate leader of the Ukrainian state, elected on the basis of Ukrainian citizens’ free will. … There is rampant extremism on the streets of our country. My supporters and I receive threats of inflicting bodily harm,” he said in a statement carried by Russia’s official Itar-Tass newswire. “It becomes evident that people in southeastern Ukraine and in the Crimea do not accept anarchy and lawlessness in the country, when ministers are elected by the crowd in the city square.” The circumstances of the Crimea referendum announcement were bizarre, with the unknown gunmen seizing control of parliament in the morning, and making no demands. Later, with the gunmen still in the building, and police making no move to oust them, 64 of the 100 regional deputies entered parliament and voted to hold the referendum. Ukraine’s Interfax newswire reported that deputies had to surrender their mobile phones to the gunmen before entering to vote. A crowd of several thousand Crimean Tatars, an ethnic group that has largely supported the uprising in Kiev, blocked parliament on Wednesday to prevent a similar vote from taking place. But on Thursday, Tatar leaders told the community to stay away parliament, fearing a violent confrontation with the pro-Russian gunmen. The referendum was set for May 25, the same day the country is scheduled to hold presidential elections. It wasn’t clear what the specific referendum question would be, but many in Crimea say they would rather join Russia than remain part of Ukraine. Several hundred pro-Russian demonstrators cheered lustily outside parliament when the referendum was announced, waving Russian flags and chanting, “Russia! Russia!” “We don’t want fascism like they have in Kiev and Lvov. … We want to be with Russia, our historical motherland,” said Pavel Yeremenko, a 52-year-old seaman from Sevastopol, the port that hosts the warships of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet. He was carrying the banner of Russian Bloc a pro-Moscow political movement, and carrying a hardhat he said he would don if violence broke out. Several protesters said they felt the armed takeover of the Crimean parliament was no different than the way power had been transferred in Kiev. “If the bandits from western Ukraine can take power by force, why can’t we take power by force?” asked Natalya Morozova, a 60-year-old retiree who said she had not received her pension this month because of the chaos in the capital. The gunmen who seized control of the regional parliament were widely believed to be members of Berkut, a riot police force that was disbanded this week by the new government in Kiev, which blamed the force for much of the bloodshed in Kiev. Serhiy Kunitsyn, a former Crimean prime minister who is now an opposition MP in Kiev, told the national parliament that 120 people who were involved in the takeover of the Crimean government buildings. “These professionally trained people are armed. They brought weapons - automatic weapons, grenade launchers, and machine guns,” Mr. Kunitsyn said. Aleksei Chaliy, the new mayor of Sevastopol has declared that the Berkut were welcome to continue as the city’s municipal police force. Mr. Chaliy is a Russian citizen, and 70 per cent of the city’s population are ethnic Russians. A checkpoint manned by men who describe themselves as volunteers from “Sevastopol citizens’ self-defense forces” has been set up on the road between Simferopol and Sevastopol. The men flew the Russian flag over their position as they forced cars heading towards the port city to slow for inspection.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/gunman-seize-crimea-parliament-raise-russian-flag/article17131810/[/url]

[quote]“I am addressing the Russian Black Sea Fleet command with a demand: all military servicemen should stay within the boundaries of the territories stipulated by the agreement,” Ukraine’s interim president, Oleksandr Turchynov, said Thursday. “Any movement of military servicemen with weapons outside this territory will be viewed as military aggression.”[/quote] This doesn't sound good at all.

Guess this is better than an armed (counter?)-revolution. This should be interesting if it passes, hopefully it doesn't go violent if it doesn't. [QUOTE=Explosions;44070641]This doesn't sound good at all.[/QUOTE] As long as Russia doesn't do anything more than the show of force they've been doing, nothing should happen.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44070641]This doesn't sound good at all.[/QUOTE] I don't hope for anything to happen, but I still think it's important for Ukraine to show that they, at least on paper, won't tolerate any Russian troops moving beyond their borders.

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Jesus h Christ, what is happening with the world lately

Kiev shot themselves in the foot, they disbanded Berkut, and now Berkut are seizing their parliaments and acting as separatist special forces under the banner of Crimea and the Russian flag.

[QUOTE=laserguided;44071087]Kiev shot themselves in the foot, they disbanded Berkut, and now Berkut are seizing their parliaments and acting as separatist special forces under the banner of Crimea and the Russian flag.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but they still needed to get rid of them due to the bad name they had with the population, it was used by the government to do dirty work and everyone knew about it, the people wouldn't stand for them to be allowed to work any further after Yanukovych fell. It might have been a bad move to disband them [b]now[/b] instead of after stuff stabilized but they had to do it to stabilize the more eminent threat of the Euromaidan protesters at the time.

you guys totally don't know what happens there and how to life without government, police and medic service

This could turn into another one of the frozen conflicts, with a de facto independent Crimea opposed by the Ukraine and supported by Russia. (Similar to Abkhazia, Transnistria and South Ossetia).

To be honest, if Crimea wants to separate from Ukraine, they should let them. Otherwise more people are going to get killed.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44071961]To be honest, if Crimea wants to separate from Ukraine, they should let them. Otherwise more people are going to get killed.[/QUOTE] Seriously. I might sound like an ignorant twat when I say this, but what does Ukraine really stand to lose if Crimea desires independence?

[QUOTE=Marcolade;44072038]Seriously. I might sound like an ignorant twat when I say this, but what does Ukraine really stand to lose if Crimea desires independence?[/QUOTE] Land.

[QUOTE=Marcolade;44072038]Seriously. I might sound like an ignorant twat when I say this, but what does Ukraine really stand to lose if Crimea desires independence?[/QUOTE] A big chunk of its industry.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44072240]A big chunk of its industry.[/QUOTE] Implying that Ukraine would no longer receive any benefit from that industry, because regional trade is obviously a concept that doesn't exist. And if Ukraine is to modernise, it's going to have to move towards a service-based economy anyways.

[QUOTE=Marcolade;44072038]Seriously. I might sound like an ignorant twat when I say this, but what does Ukraine really stand to lose if Crimea desires independence?[/QUOTE] oil and pacific ports as well as probably pipelines and some infastructure [editline]27th February 2014[/editline] this seems to be a trend in the region though, many of these boarders were made not by nationality's but by the u.s.s.r. so if people have enough backing to seize their own area then fine [editline]27th February 2014[/editline] as long as war is avoided since war in this area would escalate marginally faster than war in the middle east

[QUOTE=Marcolade;44072038]Seriously. I might sound like an ignorant twat when I say this, but what does Ukraine really stand to lose if Crimea desires independence?[/QUOTE] Not to mention without support from the Rest of Ukraine, Russia will probably just snap it up.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44072457]Implying that Ukraine would no longer receive any benefit from that industry, because regional trade is obviously a concept that doesn't exist. And if Ukraine is to modernise, it's going to have to move towards a service-based economy anyways.[/QUOTE] Somehow I doubt Ukraine and this theoretical Crimean state would be on the friendliest of terms, at least initially.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;44070975]Jesus h Christ, what is happening with the world lately[/QUOTE] Lately? Humans have been in conflict for thousands of years, this is nothing new.

[QUOTE=gonedead0;44081062]Lately? Humans have been in conflict for thousands of years, this is nothing new.[/QUOTE] Im refering to all the new more prominant independence movements around the world, not war in general

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;44086862]Im refering to all the new more prominant independence movements around the world, not war in general[/QUOTE] Dynastic cycle on a global scale.

[QUOTE=Native Hunter;44086862]Im refering to all the new more prominant independence movements around the world, not war in general[/QUOTE] People wanting to overthrow bad governments? Perish the thought

[QUOTE=Marcolade;44072038]Seriously. I might sound like an ignorant twat when I say this, but what does Ukraine really stand to lose if Crimea desires independence?[/QUOTE] it's their rightful clay

Ukraine is gonna loose Crimea. Russia did a quick forceful land grab. It isn't going to get violent but it is Russia flexing its muscles a bit. Not to say the Crimean people don't want this.They are all Russian.

[QUOTE=FluD;44071786]you guys totally don't know what happens there and how to life without government, police and medic service[/QUOTE] Of course I don't. I live thousand of miles away, and don't live in a country that's next door to an asshole country. But that doesn't mean we can't [b]KNOW[/b] that this is happening, and do our best to lend our support via words or donations to people who need it.

This makes sense. Russia cares a shitload about the Crimean region because of its importance in Black Sea trading. With the rise of a pro-western, anti-Russian government, Russia can cut its losses quite happily by securing a strategically important puppet in the form of Crimea.

Does anyone know how pro European protesters are reacting to all this?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44071961]To be honest, if Crimea wants to separate from Ukraine, they should let them. Otherwise more people are going to get killed.[/QUOTE] This I don't understand why everyone is so opposed to this and yet what the interim government is doing in Kiev is A-OKAY

[QUOTE=NotMeh;44089641]This I don't understand why everyone is so opposed to this and yet what the interim government is doing in Kiev is A-OKAY[/QUOTE] I believe acting President Oleksandr Turchynov actually called it a Russian invasion, and ambassadors are meeting with the United Nations Security Council asking for assistance and advice.

[QUOTE=NotMeh;44089641]This I don't understand why everyone is so opposed to this and yet what the interim government is doing in Kiev is A-OKAY[/QUOTE] Because asking for Independence why Totally Not Russian Forces occupy your local parliament and fly the Russian flag above it doesn't ring any alarm bells at all. (Never mind all the other places that the Russians and Berkut have occupied around Crimea) If it was Crimea going independent of it's own volition I'd be all for it, but forgive me for not trusting Russia as far as I could toss it. As it stands, this is a land-grab by Russia with a sham façade of democratic secedence.