• UK: Supplying a weapon 'just as bad as using one' - could mean life in prison
    162 replies, posted
[B]A new offence of supplying a firearm will be introduced to tackle people who hire out weapons to gangs, Home Secretary Theresa May has said. [/B]Ms May told the BBC [B]those supplying guns were "as guilty" as those using them[/B] as the impact was just as deadly.The maximum sentence for the offence, which will apply in England, Wales and Scotland, [B]will be life imprisonment[/B]. It is one of a number of measures to be outlined by David Cameron on Monday in a speech on crime. In his first major speech on the issue since becoming prime minister, Mr Cameron is expected to pledge a "tough but intelligent" approach to law and order. Monday's speech will be an attempt to end what he will characterise as a sterile debate between those who call for tougher sentencing and others who want to see more rehabilitation of offenders and say that "retribution isn't a dirty word". Ahead of the speech, [B]Mrs May confirmed that gun-runners who supply lethal weapons to gangsters could be given life sentences[/B], telling the BBC's Sunday Politics show the actions of those individuals needed to be treated more seriously. "We know there are middle men, who have firearms that they then rent out to criminals who then use them. "[B]There isn't at the moment an offence for someone to possess a firearm with the intent to supply it to someone else.[/B] "I think it is right that we introduce that offence, because those people who are supplying the firearms are as guilty as the people using them when it comes to the impact." There is already an offence of possessing firearms with intent to endanger life, carrying a maximum sentence of life, although at the moment people who deal in guns are mostly charged with offences under the Firearms Act, which carry sentences of up to 10 years. Mr Vaz said: "We have to make sure the law is very strong when people decide to sell firearms illegally or give firearms for other people to use illegally," he said. "This will send out a very strong message to those involved in criminal activity." However, a document produced by the Home Office earlier this year questioned the effectiveness of a new offence of possession with intent to traffick weapons. The document, produced as part of a consultation on the issue, said as many as 20 offenders could be affected each year. It said evidence on whether it would reduce firearms offences by acting as a deterrent was "mixed". It said any reduction in gun offences was likely to be temporary, with the gap in the firearms market "likely to be filled by other individuals". Labour say that, far from being tough on crime, the government was cutting 15,000 police officers, curbing the use of CCTV cameras and "watering down" regulations on the use of DNA in criminal investigations. The speech comes after the prime minister replaced Ken Clarke with Chris Grayling as justice secretary in September's reshuffle, a move widely interpreted as a shift to the right. Mr Grayling has already announced plans to toughen community sentences and give householders who react with force when confronted by burglars more legal protection. [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20019914[/URL]
Life sentence may sound harsh, but when they end up giving someone the means to kill another person, it seems fair.
When you supply weapons to gang members you know what they're being used for.
Excellent. I like to think that this will put [I]someone[/I] off.
Good.
Seize the problem by the roots. Wonder how effective this measure will be though, it's not like these transactions happened out in the open before.
[QUOTE=JesterUK;38125119]When you supply weapons to gang members you know what they're being used for.[/QUOTE] hide and seek or die?
Lets just hope it actually deters people. Good compromise in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Whitewolf;38125255]Lets just hope it actually deters people. Good compromise in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Compromise? No compromise is being made here, they're just making the rules even tougher.
I'm not sure I like this - Not because of the nature of the offense, but because a punitive justice system is a gigantic pile of shit no matter where you live.
By life sentence its on average 15 odd year
I'm not too sure about this. Just because you sell a weapon to someone doesn't mean you know what they're going to do with it. They might just intend to use it for defence... I mean I know guns are prohibited here and all but that doesn't mean there aren't people who just don't feel safe where they are and want a little extra protection.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;38125405]I'm not too sure about this. Just because you sell a weapon to someone doesn't mean you know what they're going to do with it. They might just intend to use it for defence... I mean I know guns are prohibited here and all but that doesn't mean there aren't people who just don't feel safe where they are and want a little extra protection.[/QUOTE] Handguns are illegal for any purpose (apart from some special shooting events) in the UK. Using defence is not a valid justification.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;38125405]I'm not too sure about this. Just because you sell a weapon to someone doesn't mean you know what they're going to do with it. They might just intend to use it for defence... I mean I know guns are prohibited here and all but that doesn't mean there aren't people who just don't feel safe where they are and want a little extra protection.[/QUOTE] I'm sure context will be taken into account. Just like here, they are only talking about "supplying weapons to gangs".
[QUOTE=BAZ;38125456][B]Handguns are illegal for any purpose[/B] (apart from some special shooting events) in the UK.[/QUOTE] Incorrect. Certain handguns are allowed with the correct firearms permit, though it is very limited, pretty much muzzleloading flintlocks and the like.
It's funny 'cause the UK government sells weapons
[QUOTE=Primigenes;38125524]The UK doing it wrong[/QUOTE] I don't see how bringing the punishments for selling weapons to criminals more in line with the punishments given to those using them is wrong.
Would this apply to David Cameron and to pretty much every previous Prime Minister, who supplied weapons to tyrannical countries such as Libya, Syria and Iraq? If not, then he's a hypocrite!
Still odd that it's easier to get a suppressor in the UK than it is here in the USA :v:
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38125918]Still odd that it's easier to get a suppressor in the UK than it is here in the USA :v:[/QUOTE]NFA, GCA, FOPA, all useless acts which should be burned and common-sense gun laws be enacted.
[QUOTE=archangel125;38125315]I'm not sure I like this - Not because of the nature of the offense, but because a punitive justice system is a gigantic pile of shit no matter where you live.[/QUOTE] True, but it will (hopefully) prevent the guns from getting into the hands of people who shouldn't have them in the first place.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;38125524]The UK doing it wrong[/QUOTE] If you're caught with giving a felon a firearm in the United States, chances are you'll receive two years in federal prison. IIRC, doing so in certain states, such as Arizona... You can receive up to 5-10 Years in state prison.
haven't you guys over there ever heard of the second amendment? know your our constitutional rights.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;38126203]haven't you guys over there ever heard of the second amendment? know your our constitutional rights.[/QUOTE] hey I don't think the second amendment applies to the UK
[QUOTE=zakedodead;38126203]haven't you guys over there ever heard of the second amendment? know your our constitutional rights.[/QUOTE] Are you sober?
There is a UK constitution it's just spread across a few different places according to here [url]http://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/research/uk-constitution[/url] Anyway, don't think it addresses firearms
[QUOTE=Dori;38126210]hey I don't think the second amendment applies to the UK[/QUOTE] Every country rightfully belongs to america
[QUOTE=zakedodead;38126203]haven't you guys over there ever heard of the second amendment? know your our constitutional rights.[/QUOTE] Your laws apply no more to us than Sharia does to you, i.e. it means jack-shit.
[QUOTE=Negrul1;38126172]True, but it will (hopefully) prevent the guns from getting into the hands of people who shouldn't have them in the first place.[/QUOTE] I doubt it, people who were selling illegal weapons aren't likely to stop just because the laws changed.
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;38126241]Every country rightfully belongs to america[/QUOTE] The American Empire! Majestati Praeparans et deum!
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