• Life among U.S. enemies: Journalist embedded self with the Taliban
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[QUOTE]CNN) -- Rarely seen by outsiders, the daily life of a regional Taliban commander named Dawran and his militant fighters is dominated by extremes: love and war, attack and retreat, life and death. For nine days in October 2009, Norwegian journalist Paul Refsdal was behind the lines with the Taliban, embedded as no Western filmmaker before him. And he was there to witness firsthand the jarring juxtapositions in Dawran's life, at turns -- directing an attack against U.S. forces in Afghanistan's treacherous mountains -- then hours later at home, a father playing with his children. To capture these intimate and unprecedented images, Refsdal risked his life to embed with Dawran and his fighters in Kunar Province -- the northeastern region where al Qaeda is active and Osama bin Laden was once rumored to be hiding.Refsdal said he doesn't know the number of militants under Dawran's command, but included in their ranks is another of Dawran's sons -- a boy 12 or 13 years old. The son carries a machine gun nearly as large as he is, Refsdal said. "For Dawran ... it's not something bad to send your ... son out to fight," he told CNN's Anderson Cooper, because Dawran believes that "... his son will come to heaven when and if he dies in this war." There are many different groups that make up the Taliban, and they are fighting for many different reasons. Dawran says he and his men joined the Taliban to drive out foreign forces from his district. "We fight for our freedom, our religion, our honor and we fight for our land," Dawran tells Refsdal. Commanding his forces from a house built of stone and clay, he says he relies on contributions to fund his operation. Firm casualty figures for both sides in the decade-long war are hard to come by. It's not known how many Taliban forces have been killed fighting U.S.-led coalition forces. According to the Pentagon, more than 2,200 coalition troops have died in Afghanistan since U.S. forces invaded in response to the 9/11 attacks. More than 1,400 Americans are among those coalition deaths. As he urges his fighters to battle, Dawran questions coalition motives. "For what purpose are they fighting us?" asks Dawran. "Are they oppressed? Have they been treated unfair? Are they living in a dictatorship?" Oppression is an accusation critics have aimed at the Taliban for decades. They rule their lives by an extremely strict interpretation of Islam. In places under their control, women shroud their faces and bodies in burqas and girls are forbidden to attend school. "There is nothing that Islam does not have the solution for," Abdul Rahman, a local Taliban judge, explains to Refsdal. "If a person cuts off another person's hand, then according to Islamic law, you have the right to retaliate and cut his hand off. It's the same with the ears, the teeth the eyes and the nose." The Taliban government ruled Afghanistan -- and gave safe harbor to al Qaeda terrorist training camps -- from the mid-1990s until 2001. Leaders refused to extradite bin Laden, prompting the U.S. invasion which toppled the Taliban government and made way for national elections. A decade later, Dawran's fighters march through Kunar's difficult terrain with heavy firearms and bandoliers of ammunition slung across their shoulders. Some wear traditional Afghan clothing and others dress in camouflage military fatigues as they trudge across canyons dotted with rocks, small trees and scrubby vegetation. As Refsdal films, Dawran directs an attack on U.S. troops, coordinating the operation by hand-held radio from a mountain perch overlooking a valley road hundreds of feet below. Eighty holy warriors are participating in this assault, Dawran says. They've taken positions in eight different places in groups of ten men each. "Attack, attack, with the help of God!" Dawran shouts into his radio. "You hit the vehicle, you hit it!" But did the fighters damage a vehicle or kill coalition forces as they thought? The answer seems to be no. Apparently, the attack wasn't even worthy of a report. CNN contacted coalition headquarters. A U.S. press officer searched through 1,800 reports from October 2009 and said, "To be clear: we have no reports of any Taliban attacks in that area during the timeframe given." As the attack ends, the sound of gunfire echoes across the valley, a plume of smoke rising in the distance. "Taliban are like most Muslim insurgents," said Refsdal. "When they have spare time, they read the Quran. They don't train. From what I could see from the firing they were not very accurate." He acknowledges that he expects criticism for being embedded with fighters trying to ambush coalition forces. "I understand that this is very emotional for people -- especially people in the armed forces," Refsdal told Cooper. "I'm a journalist, I just film what happened." The war has become "routine" for this band of Taliban fighters, said Refsdal. "They do an ambush and then spend the rest of the day sitting around gossiping on the radio. They sit, they drink a lot of tea and they have some games they are playing." One of the games is a simple rock throwing contest. Standing in a relatively flat clearing, the men square off to see who can throw heavy rocks the farthest. Most use a two-handed thrust-from-the-chest technique. In the end, the commander wins. "This is everyday life," Refsdal told Cooper. "This is the Taliban." One day, Refsdal notices Dawran is nervous about a suspicious plane flying over the Taliban fighter's hideout. The commander orders Refsdal to remain inside. Later, Refsdal hears gunfire. Dawran knocks at the door telling Refsdal to get out immediately. "Leave your things," the commander says. "Run." "We found an old abandoned shed and we slept there during the night" as the gunfire continued, said Refsdal. By daybreak Refsdal is told that a dozen people -- including Dawran's top lieutenant -- had been killed in a Special Forces raid. Refsdal finds Dawran "crying like a kid" over his lost men. Later, Dawran flees with his family, fearing for his life. Refsdal knows that the images he captured will be surprising to many -- and disturbing to some. But he feels confident that the images are authentic, not an attempt at propaganda. If the Taliban wanted to create propaganda, they would demonstrate a show of strength -- not their softer side, he said. "Showing them[selves] as humans, they don't understand any purpose of that."[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/10/taliban.refsdal.inside.look/index.html?hpt=C1[/url]
Interesting.. [quote]Refsdal finds Dawran "crying like a kid" over his lost men. Later, Dawran flees with his family, fearing for his life.[/quote]:saddowns:
Wait, how did he get in? I'm confused as to what he actually said to the commander.
They're people with 11th century motives given 20th century weapons.
I saw the documentary on CNN, it was very interesting. I liked the part where he mentioned he was almost taken to the Korangal Valley as a hostage, because the documentary Restrepo takes place at an outpost in that region.
Just as I suspected; many of them are just fighting because they perceive the coalition occupation as an invasion of sorts. They are defending their beliefs and their homeland. Perhaps western ideology shouldn't be forced upon the middle-east.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;26664138]They're people with 11th century motives given modern weapons.[/QUOTE] Maybe some elements of their religious thinking, but the perception that you are defending your homeland against an invader isn't really a 11th century motive.
[QUOTE=Roof;26664124]Interesting.. :saddowns:[/QUOTE] When I read that, I was at least happy for his children who also fight weren't hurt. Though they're technically enemy as well, they're still children.
I think we would win their hearts if we showed them more games other than "throwing the rock"
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;26664335]When I read that, I was at least happy for his children who also fight weren't hurt. Though they're technically enemy as well, they're still children.[/QUOTE] His children were killed in a drone strike a few months later. So it goes.
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;26664276]Just as I suspected; many of them are just fighting because they perceive the coalition occupation as an invasion of sorts. They are defending their beliefs and their homeland. Perhaps western ideology shouldn't be forced upon the middle-east.[/QUOTE] I concur, there's even videos from taliban insurgents that pretty much express that message. I just say we let them blow themselves up or whatever and gtfo.
I liked this article. America needs to leave these poor guys alone.
Is this important? Should it make people think about what exactly is going on down there? Yes. Will it ever make a fucking difference at all? Not a chance in heck.
What an insight.
Poor guys, all they want to do is execute rape victims in peace :(
I saw this on TV, was pretty cool. I remember this scene where they just ambushed this Hummer with a 50 cal + mortar fire
The tailban seems pretty useless. They had a heavy machinegun, yet it failed to injure anyone.
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;26665275]The tailban seems pretty useless. They had a heavy machinegun, yet it failed to injure anyone.[/QUOTE] Why do you think the majority of American/NATO/Commonwealth troops in Afghanistan are killed by roadside bombs? The Taliban themselves are poorly trained cowards, they're scared to fight even the most basic soldier in our armies, because they know how to use their weaponry properly.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;26664907]I liked this article. America needs to leave these poor guys alone.[/QUOTE] The Taliban blow up schools that teach girls and they coerce local farmers into growing opium instead of food. Yes, they have children. Yes, they have friends. Yes, they are human. But that doesn't mean they're just "poor guys." They're extremists willing to use violence to enforce their religious law. [QUOTE=Ignhelper;26665275]The tailban seems pretty useless. They had a heavy machinegun, yet it failed to injure anyone.[/QUOTE] They were really just taking potshots. They were way too far away to use any of their weapons effectively.
[QUOTE=Sector 7;26665646]The Taliban blow up schools that teach girls and they coerce local farmers into growing opium instead of food. Yes, they have children. Yes, they have friends. Yes, they are human. But that doesn't mean they're just "poor guys." They're extremists willing to use violence to enforce their religious law. They were really just taking potshots. They were way too far away to use any of their weapons effectively.[/QUOTE] America wants their oil, so they fight back using any means necessary, simple as that. This fucking entire war is a cover.
[QUOTE=Vasili;26665551]Why do you think the majority of American/NATO/Commonwealth troops in Afghanistan are killed by roadside bombs? The Taliban themselves are poorly trained cowards, they're scared to fight even the most basic soldier in our armies, because they know how to use their weaponry properly.[/QUOTE] You're a fucking idiot. They are just common civilians like you and me, it requires a lot of courage to take up arms and fight for their land against invaders that they can't fully understand why they are invading in the first place. As for the roadside bombs, do you think using cruise missiles, drones, airstrikes and Main Battle tanks against poorly-armed talibans is fair and brave? They aren't scared to fight, granted, they aren't the best markmans, but they sure as hell try their best. I'm quite sure you wouldn't perform any fucking better. Now go wave your flag somewhere else without us knowing it
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;26664276]Just as I suspected; many of them are just fighting because they perceive the coalition occupation as an invasion of sorts. They are defending their beliefs and their homeland. Perhaps western ideology shouldn't be forced upon the middle-east.[/QUOTE] The majority of fighters in Afghanistan are now foreign fighters.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;26666727]The majority of fighters in Afghanistan are now foreign fighters.[/QUOTE]if i remeber hearing it right but 80% or something like that come from Pakistan i also remember watching different channel 4 documentary a couple of months ago about a film maker who also followed the Taliban and it showed how much they make up there results, saying they destroyed a US tank but it was a very old Russian tank chassis that was all rusted, and when they did a road side IED attack they said they destroyed them there again but they didnt as the IED's failed to go off
[QUOTE=TheTalon;26666727]The majority of fighters in Afghanistan are now foreign fighters.[/QUOTE] Ironic because they themselves are foreigners.
[QUOTE=kenji;26666907]if i remeber hearing it right but 80% or something like that come from Pakistan [/QUOTE] That would make sense I think, given that the Taliban organization originated from Pakistan. [editline]13th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=TropicalV2;26664491]His children were killed in a drone strike a few months later. So it goes.[/QUOTE] :saddowns: [editline]13th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;26665551]Why do you think the majority of American/NATO/Commonwealth troops in Afghanistan are killed by roadside bombs? The Taliban themselves are poorly trained cowards, they're scared to fight even the most basic soldier in our armies, because they know how to use their weaponry properly.[/QUOTE] Afghan fighters are known to be one of the fiercest fighters in the world, not just today, but over the past centuries. I don't mean by their skill or training, but by their sheer willpower to fight against incredible odds despite the lack of training or skill.
[QUOTE=RayDark;26666420]America wants their oil, so they fight back using any means necessary, simple as that. This fucking entire war is a cover.[/QUOTE] I feel like a broken record whenever I say this, but the oil contracts coming out of Afghanistan and Iraq are largely owned by China, Russia, etc. In fact, from what I can tell, the U.S. hasn't gained a single oil contract from either war over the last 10 years. They haven't even been cut a deal. This obviously contradicts the whole "they went to war for oil" theory. Most of the insurgents that American forces are facing are completely oblivious to why American forces are even there in the first place. A huge, country wide study in Afghanistan confirms this, as well as independent interviews with insurgent leaders who are always inquiring as to why Americans are on their land. The whole thing just seems like a clusterfuck of misunderstandings and misinformation on every side. How people can glean straight forward, simple theories from this situation is beyond me.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;26664138]They're people with 11th century motives given modern weapons.[/QUOTE] Oh come on.. the US military isn't that bad.... Edit: well at least one person got my joke
[QUOTE=Kade;26667533]Oh come on.. the US military isn't that bad....[/QUOTE] I know that they do give a lot of help to the locals and civilians and always try their best to not harm the civilians (even if it sometimes seems like so), but their tendency to order a fucking cruise missile on some shack just because a drone spotted a guy toting and AK47 10 meters away from it just seems stupid. Especially in a country where Assault Rifles are cheaper than actual hunting shotguns which are usually used to defend their home and village instead of combatting the coalition forces
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;26667625]I know that they do give a lot of help to the locals and civilians and always try their best to not harm the civilians (even if it sometimes seems like so), but their tendency to order a fucking cruise missile on some shack just because a drone spotted a guy toting and AK47 10 meters away from it just seems stupid. Especially in a country where Assault Rifles are cheaper than actual hunting shotguns which are usually used to defend their home and village instead of combatting the coalition forces[/QUOTE] Imagine that in America. A guy decides to go hunting for deer then suddenly gets killed by a missile because he was spotted going through the forest with a gun.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;26664907]I liked this article. America needs to leave these poor guys alone.[/QUOTE] The problem is that they're not exactly better themselves. When left to their own wit, they'll oppress populations and especially, as the article states, women. I'm sure they're doing it in good faith and all that, but that's not an excuse.
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