Germany is set to become the first country in Europe to introduce a third, "indeterminate" gender de
160 replies, posted
[url=http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/third-gender-option-to-become-available-on-german-birth-certificates-a-916940.html#ref=rss][img]http://www.spiegel.de/static/sys/v10/logo/spiegel_online_logo_460_64.png[/img][/url]
[quote=spiegel.de]
[img]http://cdn3.spiegel.de/images/image-497236-breitwandaufmacher-hddv.jpg[/img]
[b]Germany is set to become the first country in Europe to introduce a third, "indeterminate" gender designation on birth certificates. The European Union, which is attempting to coordinate anti-discrimination efforts across member states, is lagging behind on the issue.[/b]
The option of selecting "blank", in addition to the standard choices of "male" or female" on birth certificates will become available in Germany from November 1. [b]The legislative change allows parents to opt out of determining their baby's gender, thereby allowing those born with characteristics of both sexes to choose whether to become male or female in later life. Under the new law, individuals can also opt to remain outside the gender binary altogether.[/b]
Germany is the first country in Europe to introduce this option -- Munich-based newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung is referring to the change as a "legal revolution". [b]It remains unclear, however, how the change will affect gender assignment in other personal documents, such as passports, which still require people to choose between two categories -- "F" for female and "M" for male. German family law publication FamRZ has called for the introduction of a third category, designated by the letter "X".[/b]
Finland is the only EU member state aside from Germany to have made significant progress in the area of third gender recognition. Despite its efforts, bureaucratic hurdles in the Nordic country have meant that there is still no concrete legislative change in sight.
According to Silvan Agius, policy director at human rights organisation ILGA Europe -- the European chapter of the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association -- the European Union is lagging behind on the issue. Though Brussels commissioned a report on trans and intersex minorities in 2010, and has since attempted to coordinate efforts to prohibit gender discrimination, progress has been halting.
[b]"Things are moving slower than they should at the European level", says Agius.[/b] "Though Brussels has ramped up efforts to promote awareness of trans and intersex discrimination, I would like to see things speed up."[/quote]
[t]http://fuuka.warosu.org/data/cgl/img/0069/30/1372311931110.jpg[/t]
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[quote]Thereby allowing those born with characteristics of both sexes to choose whether to become male or female in later life.[/quote]
What are these characterestics? Is this only physical or also psychological?
I'm slightly worried that this sets off a wrong signal to psychological instable parents who want their child's gender the other way around and start talking their child into a gender swap rather than that child choosing for it's self. Maybe I just have a wild fantasy but I've seen multiple news video reports of kids not even near their teens who start taking hormones, then the parent(s) show up in an interview and start talking in a real fucked up perspective about their kid which makes me wonder if it's the child's concsious decision or if it's their parents talking them into it.
I can only see this applied to babies born as herm.
This is great.
It's funny to think that countries like India and Pakistan already have denominations like this one despite being so assbackwards yet we're just getting these in the Western world.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;41861446]What are these characterestics? Is this only physical or also psychological?
I'm slightly worried that this sets off a wrong signal to psychological instable parents who want their child's gender the other way around and start talking their child into a gender swap rather than that child choosing for it's self. Maybe I just have a wild fantasy but I've seen multiple news video reports of kids not even near their teens who start taking hormones, then the parent(s) show up in an interview and start talking in a real fucked up perspective about their kid which makes me wonder if it's the child's concsious decision or if it's their parents talking them into it.
I can only see this applied to babies born as herm.[/QUOTE]
psychological. Gender is not defined exclusively by biology, even though it is greatly influenced by it. You have cases of people born into a sex feeling they actually belong to the opposite sex and also that case of the boy who was accidentally mutilated being raised as a girl from the very beginning strongly identifying with the male sex and eventually discovering the truth of his birth and breaking away from his female upbringing.
That's a bit weird. Why not just change the wording to "biological sex" and tag people based on that?
Why not just have the kids change it when they grow up like you can change a name
Even then there should still be a record as to what you were born as
[QUOTE=latin_geek;41861647]That's a bit weird. Why not just change the wording to "biological sex" and tag people based on that?[/QUOTE]
Because hermaphrodites have no clear-cut biological sex?
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;41861749]Why not just have the kids change it when they grow up like you can change a name
Even then there should still be a record as to what you were born as[/QUOTE]
This is a good solution, there's still people that wouldn't like to have sexual intercourse with a woman that was born as a man for various reasons.
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
And it's still absurd to "abandon" what you were born as.
I think mostly everyone is misunderstanding what this is about because of the title...
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
It's just talking about people who are born hermaphrodites will be classified as genderless until they are old enough to decide which they'd rather be, it's not letting parents who have a baby born with male genitalia deciding he's going to be a girl or trying to classify him as not having gender.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;41861766]Because hermaphrodites have no clear-cut biological sex?[/QUOTE]
Are there really that many hermaphrodites that they need to change all of this stuff to fit them in? I'm on tumblr and some LGBT reddits a ton and I've never seen a single case of a biological hermaphrodite.
According to wikipedia, at least, not only is the condition extremely rare, but there isn't a single case of a biological hermaphrodite with both reproductive systems functioning (and only 11 cases of fertile herms in recorded history).
[QUOTE=latin_geek;41861846]Are there really that many hermaphrodites that they need to change all of this stuff to fit them in? I'm on tumblr and some LGBT reddits a ton and I've never seen a single case of a biological hermaphrodite.
According to wikipedia, at least, not only is the condition extremely rare, but there isn't a single case of a biological hermaphrodite with both reproductive systems functioning (and only 11 cases of fertile herms in recorded history).[/QUOTE]
In a welfare state, minorities no matter how small should be accounted for.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;41861846]Are there really that many hermaphrodites that they need to change all of this stuff to fit them in? I'm on tumblr and some LGBT reddits a ton and I've never seen a single case of a biological hermaphrodite.
According to wikipedia, at least, not only is the condition extremely rare, but there isn't a single case of a biological hermaphrodite with both reproductive systems functioning (and only 11 cases of fertile herms in recorded history).[/QUOTE]
hermaphrodites should be catered to less because i haven't had an experience with one
righht.
being a hermaphrodite doesn't usually stop at just exterior physical impacts, hormones and what not come in to play
I don't see any harm in it, but there should be a biological sex on birth certificates and passports
[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;41862010]I don't see any harm in it, but there should be a biological sex on birth certificates and passports[/QUOTE]
biological sex is not binary, if someone really is physically neither man or woman strictly, then they should be allowed to identify as so.
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;41861446]What are these characterestics? Is this only physical or also psychological?
I'm slightly worried that this sets off a wrong signal to psychological instable parents who want their child's gender the other way around and start talking their child into a gender swap rather than that child choosing for it's self. Maybe I just have a wild fantasy but I've seen multiple news video reports of kids not even near their teens who start taking hormones, then the parent(s) show up in an interview and start talking in a real fucked up perspective about their kid which makes me wonder if it's the child's concsious decision or if it's their parents talking them into it.
I can only see this applied to babies born as herm.[/QUOTE]
yup all those straw parents that totally exist yeah this is definately a thing
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;41861446]What are these characterestics? Is this only physical or also psychological?
I'm slightly worried that this sets off a wrong signal to psychological instable parents who want their child's gender the other way around and start talking their child into a gender swap rather than that child choosing for it's self. Maybe I just have a wild fantasy but I've seen multiple news video reports of kids not even near their teens who start taking hormones, then the parent(s) show up in an interview and start talking in a real fucked up perspective about their kid which makes me wonder if it's the child's concsious decision or if it's their parents talking them into it.
I can only see this applied to babies born as herm.[/QUOTE]
The earliest you can get hormones is 16 with consent of your guardian, which are also only given after years of therapy and diagnoses. It's also impossible to force a kid into one gender role or another without extensive psychological damage. Stop talking bullshit.
It's pretty obvious this isn't to do with transgender kids; because when the time comes to fill this out, the kid probably won't even be able to shit, let alone identify as one gender or another.
I'm not sure where all the dumbs are coming from. Is there some major drawback to this system? Is it missing its point? Is being considerate of minorities a bad thing now? Do people automatically associate LGBT-friendliness with bigmouthed teens on social networks?
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41862012]biological sex is not binary, if someone really is physically neither man or woman strictly, then they should be allowed to identify as so.[/QUOTE]
true.
Maybe it should just say if your a human or a robot.
[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;41862406]true.
Maybe it should just say if your a human or a robot.[/QUOTE]
Well, robots don't exist.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;41862396]I'm not sure where all the dumbs are coming from. Is there some major drawback to this system? Is it missing its point? Is being considerate of minorities a bad thing now? Do people automatically associate LGBT-friendliness with bigmouthed teens on social networks?[/QUOTE]
ignorance
Congratulations mrs. Schmitz, it's an indeterminate.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;41862415]Well, robots don't exist.[/QUOTE]
[thumb]http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/05/16/087121.1-lg.jpg[/thumb]
Really?
[editline]16th August 2013[/editline]
Aw c'mon ninja'd by 2 minutes.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41862012]biological sex is not binary, if someone really is physically neither man or woman strictly, then they should be allowed to identify as so.[/QUOTE]
Biological sex couldn't possibly be any more binary.
Males produce spermatozoa. Females produce ova.
Infertility or failure to produce either is irrelevant. The presence or absence of a Y chromosome is then the determining factor.
Gender varies greatly, biological sex does not.
[QUOTE=GunFox;41862552]Biological sex couldn't possibly be any more binary.
Males produce spermatozoa. Females produce ova.
Infertility or failure to produce either is irrelevant. The presence or absence of a Y chromosome is then the determining factor.
Gender varies greatly, biological sex does not.[/QUOTE]
what about X0 AKA Turner syndrome?
intersex people get fucked over all around the world because the parents or even the [I]doctors[/I] just kinda snip whatever they want and it can hurt the person in the long run
thats what this is about
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;41862396]I'm not sure where all the dumbs are coming from. Is there some major drawback to this system? Is it missing its point? Is being considerate of minorities a bad thing now? Do people automatically associate LGBT-friendliness with bigmouthed teens on social networks?[/QUOTE]
its because i dont think it really defines HOW its going to define those minorities, so the dumbs are in fear the the system might be used incorrectly if that is even possible
basically a fear that everyone who selects that option is going to be this kind of person
[t]http://24.media.tumblr.com/20a61b27c0c2ae26302aad42e52c8534/tumblr_mqe6nsHWeU1ryeto5o1_1280.png[/t]
[QUOTE=omggrass;41862598]what about X0 AKA Turner syndrome?[/QUOTE]
[quote]The presence or absence of a Y chromosome is then the determining factor. [/quote]
They are women. They do not have a Y chromosome.
This offends my sensibilities as a resident of 1864 and as such I have rated the OP dumb
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