Hi Facepunch, going to throw a debate at you and see what your opinions are.
So, without further ado, can people really change?
To get things started I will put forward my thoughts on the matter. With enough time and enough effort anyone can change. It is by no means an easy process, but alas it is still possible none the less. My evidence to back up such a claim comes from the Khmer Rouge theme run by Pol Pot in Cambodia. His extreme communism was forced upon the people, and with enough effort (mass torturing and relentless genocide) eventually many people started to succumb to his twisted ideas of society. Agreeably, not all did, but this was because other influences such as families and friends helping them to keep 'sane' and not turn.
[I]Further Reading: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge"]Khmer Rogue Wikipedia Article[/URL][/I]
Oh, and if it is ok with mods I'd like to collect some viewpoints when this thread draws to a close and ask the posters for permission to post their input [URL="http://www.postdemise.com"]to my blog?[/URL]
Khmer Rogue mass genocide:
[IMG]http://www.siiaonline.org/files/imce/svieng.jpg[/IMG]
well like, when I was 1 year old, I couldn't talk. But now, I can, so I mean that should be qualified as a change right
Yes, 4 years ago I used really fucking annoying faces at the end of all of my posts and it was really fucking annoying.
[QUOTE=Spearman;35542022]Yes, 4 years ago I used really fucking annoying faces at the end of all of my posts and it was really fucking annoying.[/QUOTE]
Didn't know 2011 was 4 years ago
Ontopic:
Only when they're young, then it's next to impossible, except with medical assistance
Yes, people change all the time, very dramatically sometimes, like moving from Black/Heavy-metal culture into Hip Hop RAP culture.
It's growing up, and I'm not saying you "grow out" of Metal music, just an example how people can change. And the most crucial part of growing up is obviously youth.
It's easier to change when you are young. It becomes much harder later in life when you have basically set all your ideals.
I'd say certain aspects of a person can be changed while others can't, neuroplasticity is a good example of a way in which a person can change their habits and ways of thinking, Something like sexual orientation is an example of something that cannot be changed willingly.
i'm tying to change myself from a socially awkward nerd to something i can be proud of, i think people can change if they get some help from people around them and they feel they can do it
I feel like who someone basically is changes very slowly and very steadily, and ofc going from a child to adult would bring changes as the brain itself is developing in those phases, but the major changes I think come from people's perceptions of the world change.
Think of it this way, someone hates getting hurt. In time period A, they thought spiders could hurt them, thus they had a great fear of spiders. In time period B they no longer believe spiders can hurt them, so they cease to have a fear of them. The way they interact with the world changed, but the basic drive behind it did not. Perhaps with steady pushing one could change that, such as building a pain tolerance until it stopped being as frightening, but that is something that does not grow over night.
Of course you can change my dick grew an inch yesterday.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating - 2nd MD Offense" - Megafan))[/highlight]
You can't change the past or future, and when living in a time-based mentality, the ego you reside in now is the result of past reflections & future projections. An example is most of the things you think on a day-to-day basis, these were the results of other people's influence at some point in the past. This is how 'habits' and addictions form, our perceptions of other people, as well as many kinds of mental trauma/illness/psychosis:- they become embedded in the subconscious whilst we are growing up and manifest themselves when similar circumstances arise in the present.
Whilst it is possible to attempt physical changes to affect or alter your current situation, these can be incredibly time consuming and always depend on a psychosomatic switch or trigger at some point in the developmental process. An example would be 'bodybuilding' to 'build confidence' or 'get girls':- a guy might do this and a few months down the line a girl compliments his physique, and he believes it is down to his physical effort in building a sculpted physique that led to this happening, yet it was pretty much the internal dialogue he ran that led to this result:- 'If I bodybuild, I will get girls..' - '..and now that I have bodybuilt substantially, I will get girls'- and this belief is further reinforced by the girl complimenting his physique, which could easily lead on to increased & furthered ego-building through bodybuilding (in this example).
When you take a step back from it all and start observing causality, human psychoanalysis and realise that most 'change' is in fact drama (things we tell ourselves), you can start to see the great 'Cosmic Joke' - everyone is living under masks of superficial pretence or believed identity.
As for change itself, it is not possible to create lasting change with superficial pretence..
..It is however possible to change the quality of our own experience by taking a step back, seeing things as they are, and making a conscious decision to stop causing ourselves so much suffering for the judgment and/or approval of others, stop playing through these 'dramas' and drop the pretentiousness.
There's a lot of intense inner-work to be done to undo the influences of others on our own growth and development, yet at the end you can stand as an authentic man/women:- even if you lose a limb, get horribly burnt in a fire, grow old, go deaf, have one cent to your name or lose your hair, you will have realised that all of this needn't affect the quality of your experience as it is unfolding now, as that is a conscious decision we make.
[i]"There are no adults in this world. There are children who are alive, present, and playful – and children who are dead serious and working hard to keep up adult pretences."[/i]
I assume you mean psychological change?
I believe people can change. They must, otherwise they'd be unable to adapt to and make the best of new situations.
That's not to say that all change is inevitable however. Change can only come with the consent of the person being changed. That said, one could go through what would be for many a 'life-changing' experience and still come through with their identity unchanged. May be difficult in some cases, but not impossible.
The poster above me has made some excellent points. If there's one thing that I can say for certain changes throughout our lives it's our perceptions.
Of course, people can change. It probably takes more then a dozen tries for some though...
OP needs to give a clear cut definition of change so we know what we're debating about here.
I used to lie constantly about everything. Now I do not. This is change.
People can change; but people can't change their opinions on people that have changed.
>Watch Clockwork Orange
I used to be that awkward weird kid in class who would get picked on all the time.
After about a year and a half of taking martial arts and after seeing a psychologist for some time, I gained alot of self confidence and social skills.
Since then kids have no longer picked on me and I have made a good number of friends both in real life and online.
So I believe people can certainly change.
However, I also think there are those who can't, or to choose a better word, won't.
To truly change yourself you have to want to change and make an effort to.
Usually egotistical assholes who feel that the world revolves around them never change.
They think they are perfection, so they see no reason to quit being their douchey selves.
[QUOTE=Katatonic717;35697332]
However, I also think there are those who can't, or to choose a better word, won't.
To truly change yourself you have to want to change and make an effort to.[/QUOTE]
Very good point. In order to change yourself, you have to be willing and motivated to do it.
Otherwise you reject the idea of changing and thus you can never succeed.
I could say that I've been very open minded these past few years. I've learned a lot, and have gotten my own perspective of many things which I previously had just a naive viewpoint.
People are developed through their experiences. As they age, they gain more and more new experiences which in turn develop them further.
So yes, not only do people change but ALL people change continuously. It's not always blatant and obvious, but it slowly grows over time.
Do you mean people at large, as in "human nature" or do you mean on an individual basis?
People change all the time, millions of years ago humans were savages now we are civilized (to a point)
It is an incredibly juvenile and short-sighted thing to think that ANYTHING in this world is static.
You. Yes, you reading this right now. You aren't the same person right now that you were before you read this. Some small part of your mind is filing these words away somewhere, whether you'll actively remember them or not. You are now different. I changed you.
The world is destroyed and recreated every moment, it is always changing
Well I changed from an introvert to an extrovert.
Also my teenage years have been somewhat similiar to the story about the ugly duckling.
Yesterday I made the decision.
That I was going to stop hiding in my room all day and start campaigning to save the world.
I'm going to host a series of protests in order to get the government to legalize raspberries.
I believe that's a valid form of change.
Depends entirely by what you mean by change.
It's very tough for a person to change the way they think, and I don't mean just on topics, I'm talking about the way they interpret personalities and the things around them in general, even their own thoughts.
It's a decent debate topic, but unless we're talking about simple changes, it won't really go anywhere.
[QUOTE=AK'z;35743650]Depends entirely by what you mean by change.
It's very tough for a person to change the way they think, and I don't mean just on topics, I'm talking about the way they interpret personalities and the things around them in general, even their own thoughts.
It's a decent debate topic, but unless we're talking about simple changes, it won't really go anywhere.[/QUOTE]
Yes, exactly this.
The way you were raised and what you experienced determined how you are right now and how you think about everything.
You might make small, physical changes and yes, stuff might get better, however your life is still being unconsciously dictated by your subconscious until you become aware of it and work to understand the self better.
It's easy to shy away topics like this, but when you think into it.. you can find a lot about people.
People grow up early on and learn to make choices about people, as you get older your choices will be a lot easier to make but some things such as prejudices and morals will be left for you.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;35743715]Yes, exactly this.
The way you were raised and what you experienced determined how you are right now and how you think about everything.
You might make small, physical changes and yes, stuff might get better, however your life is still being unconsciously dictated by your subconscious until you become aware of it and work to understand the self better.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, but people naturally perceive the world around them in a different manner as time progresses, change is inherent. This is more applicable to some than it is to others, but true none the less.
Not saying it's impossible for people to change the way they think, just that it takes time and experience.
It is pretty important for the term "change" to be defined and for a theory to be proposed. What would prove a person can change? What would disprove that a person can change.
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