• Marxist vegan restaurant closes: No set business hours, long waits, and odd decor
    48 replies, posted
[t]https://pajamasmed.hs.llnwd.net/e1/lifestyle/user-content/36/files/2016/12/Che-Guevara-Bartertown.sized-770x415xt.png[/t] [quote=Heastst.com]A “Marxist” “collectivist” “worker-run” restaurant in Grand Rapids, Michigan, closed its doors this week after customers complained that they could no longer tolerate the bizarre hours, high prices and long lines. The Garden Diner and Cafe—previously known as the Bartertown Diner—featured a vegan, vegetarian and raw food menu that had met with significant national acclaim. But the restaurant’s business model, which did not allow for bosses or managers, promised a “living wage” to all employees and a strong union, did not allow the restaurant to make enough profit to stay in business. Worse still, while the food earned Bartertown a spot on VegNews’s “10 Hot New Vegan Restaurants” list, customers complained that it was almost impossible to get a meal at the diner. People frequently noted on the restaurant’s Facebook page that they waited more than 40 minutes for a sandwich—and that’s when the diner was even open. Because the employees set the shop’s hours by group decision, the restaurant opened and closed at random times, leaving potential sandwich buyers totally confused. It turns out, in a shocking revelation to the store’s management, that those Soviet bread lines were a bug, not a feature of Communism. On Reddit, the restaurant’s frequent political statements produced fiery confrontations. Some Grand Rapids residents resented that Bartertown offered them a side of Che Guevara with every bahn mi and $2 taco. Customers also complained that the restaurants “equal pay, no tipping” scheme failed to reward exceptional service, pointing out on the message board that “you shouldn’t try running your business on political good will alone.” Even Bartertown’s inclusive, progressive politics couldn’t please everyone in their community. When the diner offered a free meal to Grand Rapids police officers as a “thank you” for keeping their neighborhood safe, local socialists complained that the business was abrogating its core ideals by siding with fascists and supporting “nearly all-white police force in this era of police violence.”[/quote] [url]http://heatst.com/culture-wars/marxist-vegan-restaurant-closes-after-customers-no-longer-willing-to-wait-40-minutes-for-a-sandwich/[/url] [url]http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/11/grand_rapids_worker-run_vegeta.html[/url] Reddit thread if anyone is interested: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/grandrapids/comments/5e7jf9/bartertownthe_garden_is_closing/#bottom-comments[/url] Closing announcement: [t]http://heatst.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/garden-diner.jpg?w=576&quality=80&strip=info[/t]
You can't make this shit up. I gotta commend these folks on a novel idea but a Marxist private enterprise is just begging to fail. [Editline] h[/editline] You know, I bet real food service just hasn't been tried yet.
:what:
Further proof marxism doesn't work in a capitalist society without limits. Would have been better off in a more socialistic country in my opinion.
The best part is that they are now selling the means of production to the highest bidder. [T]http://heatst.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/garden-diner.jpg?w=576&quality=80&strip=info[/t]
Oh wow I lived right near it, I never knew they were so nuts though. This kind of weird stuff is fairly common in Grand Rapids. There was a donut shop called Propaganda Donuts that had odd hours and chose to locate itself on a street filled with homeless people, and then acted enraged when it went out of business.
[quote] Because the employees set the shop’s hours by group decision, the restaurant opened and closed at random times, leaving potential sandwich buyers totally confused. [/quote] Who in their right mind thinks this is a good idea?
I saw a snippet of this on Facebook, I swore it was an onion article This is by far one of the most surreal news articles I've read all year and we're in December
[t]https://s17.postimg.org/bf7cxi71b/Screenshot_2016_12_10_15_58_40.png[/t] From their yelp page. Their yelp page actually has good reviews, but it seems like local redditors on the grand rapids page absolutely had a different experience.
This [I]is not[/I] how you run a cooperative business.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51509807]Further proof marxism doesn't work in a capitalist society without limits. Would have been better off in a more socialistic country in my opinion.[/QUOTE] i don't think anybody is arguing against that. A business still needs a set leadership to coordinate everything, it doesn't mean that the workers themselves can't have some input on things though. This just sort of seems like a very ill concieved, poorly planned venture that will ineviteably be used as proof against worker's rights or anything considered [I]socialism[/I]
This is great Whenever somebody says "Why business needs people who give out orders and set rules?" I'll just pass these news.
[QUOTE=Sableye;51509850] This just sort of seems like a very ill concieved, poorly planned venture that will ineviteably be used as proof against worker's rights or anything considered [I]socialism[/I][/QUOTE] I can see people posting this on facebook to say "see? this is why workers shouldn't have any say in their business because they're dumb lol" already
Sounds like it has less to do with "marxism" and more to do with a bunch of incompetent hippies who don't know how to run a restaurant. The idea could work, but never as well as as the model of a few moderately well paid people commanding a large number of barely paid people to work a food assembly line.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;51509832]Who in their right mind thinks this is a good idea?[/QUOTE] Why would the group decision not just apply once, and then they keep the hours they set initially...
i think co-operatives are a really good idea, but it's obvious that this one in particular wasn't planned out very well
Co-operatives can work very well. This is more of an example of idiotic planning and gimmicks.
This could have gone decently well. But no consistent hours killed it. I don't care how much you fellatio Mao or Che, you need to have a consistent schedule. Not knowing when it's going to be open or closed it just enough reason to skip ever going to it.
Weren't lumber mills in the past often run as co-ops, and I believe they were successful? The difference here is that the mills had some semblance of organizational structure, and generally were tight knit groups of similar people. This on the other hand had no organization.
Can anyone point out a successful co-op restaurant? Just actually curious cause having watched Kitchen Nightmares like an insane person, doesn't sound very possible. :v:
[URL="https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Restaurant_Review-g186600-d787464-Reviews-The_Quay_Co_op-Cork_County_Cork.html"]This count?[/URL] EDIT: [URL="https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Restaurant_Review-g1922795-d3575340-Reviews-La_Cooperative-Belesta_Ariege_Occitanie.html"]here's a French one.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51509947]Can anyone point out a successful co-op restaurant?[/QUOTE] Have you ever been to SF? Most restaurants there are Co-ops. And they rake in money like no tomorrow.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51509949][URL="https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Restaurant_Review-g186600-d787464-Reviews-The_Quay_Co_op-Cork_County_Cork.html"]This count?[/URL] EDIT: [URL="https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Restaurant_Review-g1922795-d3575340-Reviews-La_Cooperative-Belesta_Ariege_Occitanie.html"]here's a French one.[/URL][/QUOTE] I guess my next question is to define what the characteristics of a co-op is. Since I can't really see what makes this different from a typical restaurant except by name. Like I am not criticizing, just actually curious. [editline]10th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51509950]Have you ever been to SF? Most restaurants there are Co-ops. And they rake in money like no tomorrow.[/QUOTE] I have, but they didn't seem to break away from the typical restaurant practices as far as I could tell.
I don't know whether to blame this on the collective run mentality or lack of leadership positions. These idiots do not keep to a set schedule, a lack of discipline makes for poor workers. A collective made up of lazy, non-consistent workers is bound to fail. Without some form of manager or supervisor to look over the day to day activities how do they expect it to stay open? Even fucking Soviet Russia had leaders who managed everything. There's a difference between worker-shared ownership with individuals handling management and supervising then we have this shitshow. I despise the idea of communism and socialism but this makes me pity the people who carry these political ideologies because these idiots ruin any chances of it being taken seriously.
[quote] Even Bartertown’s inclusive, progressive politics couldn’t please everyone in their community. When the diner offered a free meal to Grand Rapids police officers as a “thank you” for keeping their neighborhood safe,[B] local socialists complained that the business was abrogating its core ideals by siding with fascists and supporting “nearly all-white police force in this era of police violence.”[/B][/quote] :s: It's a fucking free meal.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51509959]I guess my next question is to define what the characteristics of a co-op is. Since I can't really see what makes this different from a typical restaurant except by name. Like I am not criticizing, just actually curious.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.publishyourarticles.net/eng/articles2/what-are-the-characteristics-or-features-of-co-operatives/2764/"]These are the characteristics.[/URL] One would assume they are actual co-operatives and are not taking the name in vain. I can't name restaurants but I know there are several co-operatives that successful.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51509949][URL="https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Restaurant_Review-g186600-d787464-Reviews-The_Quay_Co_op-Cork_County_Cork.html"]This count?[/URL] EDIT: [URL="https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Restaurant_Review-g1922795-d3575340-Reviews-La_Cooperative-Belesta_Ariege_Occitanie.html"]here's a French one.[/URL][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51509950]Have you ever been to SF? Most restaurants there are Co-ops. And they rake in money like no tomorrow.[/QUOTE] Can confirm for SF. I spent some time there last year, and my mom used to live there. Co-ops aren't a new phenomenon for the city. Hippies brought that idealism in during the 1960s and 1970s, and it's still alive and well today. Also, there's Marinaleda in Spain. It's an entire town of 2,700+ people run as a communist village that is successful; everybody earns 47 euros a day for 6 and 1/2 hours of work, which is more than twice the Spanish minimum wage. It's a fascinating place. I'd like to visit it someday. [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda[/url]
As much as I hate communism it can work on a small scale, much like religion can. It's when you go full authoritarian and apply it to everyone and every single facet of life that things go terrible, and why socialism is superior since it can support democracy.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51510002]As much as I hate communism it can work on a small scale, much like religion can. It's when you go full authoritarian and apply it to everyone and every single facet of life that things go terrible, and why socialism is superior since it can support democracy.[/QUOTE] Authoritarianism in general is a terrible long-term ideology. In the short-term, I can understand that it has practical applications (like in times of crisis and desperation, sort of how dictatorship worked in the Roman Republic); there's no better system for railroading policy through and forcing outcomes. But it's not sustainable overall, and it inevitably gives way to inefficiency and corruption. You look at a man like Stalin (who is at least in my mind the embodiment of authoritarian Communism), he murdered and imprisoned tens of millions of people, supported terrible cronies (like Kaganovich and Beria, the latter of whom Stalin bragged to the United States and United Kingdom about as being "our Himmler"), and founded a regime for which morality and humanity towards its own people had absolutely no meaning; on the other hand, as Churchill pointed out, "he found Russia with ploughs and oxen, and he left it equipped with nuclear weapons"-- in addition to controlling Eastern Europe, elevating the Soviet state to the position of a superpower, etc. Looking back at history, I can't help but wonder how the Soviet Union would've been different if Trotsky, Nikolai Bukharin, or Sergey Kirov had been in charge. I think Bukharin would've probably been the best of the bunch-- he was extremely popular in the party because he was a genuinely decent human being with revolutionary sentiments who cared about art, science, economics, and philosophy. He was actually one of the founders of the Soviet Academy of Arts & Sciences and contributed to their botanical studies. I don't know if he would've been as hard as Stalin when it came to Hitler and the Germans however.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51509991][URL="http://www.publishyourarticles.net/eng/articles2/what-are-the-characteristics-or-features-of-co-operatives/2764/"]These are the characteristics.[/URL] One would assume they are actual co-operatives and are not taking the name in vain. I can't name restaurants but I know there are several co-operatives that successful.[/QUOTE] See to me this ultimately comes off as more Socialist, which ofcourse can work if there is some kind of organization to combat mob rule. This restaurant on the other hand tried to go full retard from what I can tell.
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