Ontario considers more changes to how gender is displayed on government ID - Polidicks

[url]https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/08/14/ontario-considers-more-changes-to-how-gender-is-displayed-on-government-id.html[/url] [quote]Ontario is considering more changes to the collection and display of gender information on government documents, not long after announcing gender-neutral driver’s licences and health cards. Public consultations launched earlier this month look at how gender information is treated on government forms and identification documents, including birth and marriage certificates. A preamble to an online survey says “people with transgender and non-binary gender identity may face barriers and other negative outcomes when trying to access services” so the government wants to ensure its policies are inclusive. Ontario has already announced that starting in early 2017, drivers will be able to select an X instead of an M for male or F for female on their licences.[/quote] Sigh. This is really dumb.

[QUOTE]Ontario has already announced that starting in early 2017, drivers will be able to select an X instead of an M for male or F for female on their licences. [/QUOTE] :nope:

Is there any evidence that gender-fluid/non-binary is a real thing rather than, you know, total and complete nonsense?

[QUOTE=srobins;50885111]Is there any evidence that gender-fluid/non-binary is a real thing rather than, you know, total and complete nonsense?[/QUOTE] None that I know of. This is all just to make people feel good, it's completely needless.

I always thought the M's and F's of government identification were reserved for sex, not gender.

I don't see what the issue with this is, other than perhaps confusion over a person's sex vs their gender. I'm not sure how you'd display that though. Are there any legal problems with this? Because if there isn't then this seems like a very positive thing.

Needless or not, does it really hurt anyone?

[QUOTE=pith_;50885122]I always thought the M's and F's of government identification were reserved for sex, not gender.[/QUOTE] Yeah. If not, then they should be.

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50885129]Needless or not, does it really hurt anyone?[/QUOTE] Does it hurt people to be able to list their favorite song on their drivers license? No, but it's still incredibly stupid and a waste of time and effort.

[QUOTE=srobins;50885145]Does it hurt people to be able to list their favorite song on their drivers license? No, but it's still incredibly stupid and a waste of time and effort.[/QUOTE] I think there's a fair deal of difference between your favorite song and gender identity.

Not to mention it legitimizes something that imo is bordering on a state of delusion.

Does this mean that if I move to Canada I can be Mega Man X?

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50885152]I think there's a fair deal of difference between your favorite song and gender identity.[/QUOTE] What relevance is somebody's gender identity to the state? The only reason a Sex/Gender field exists on an identification card in the first place is to help identify somebody and verify who they are. A big X completely invalidates the point of the field, it doesn't tell you anything useful about them and effectively makes it more difficult to identify somebody because you basically just wrote "whatever" on one of the fields. If you write "light skinned.. or black skinned.. or, I don't know, really pale? But sometimes black." in the "Race" field it would make it completely useless, no? Same here.

[QUOTE=Dantz Bolrew;50885183]Does this mean that if I move to Canada I can be Mega Man X?[/QUOTE] no you would be Mega X

[QUOTE=srobins;50885153]Not to mention it legitimizes something that imo is bordering on a state of delusion.[/QUOTE] please, this thread is already headed to the shitter by virtue of involving the topic of gender identity, it doesn't need your baiting to get us there faster.

[QUOTE=srobins;50885153]Not to mention it legitimizes something that imo is bordering on a state of delusion.[/QUOTE] It's good that it's just your opinion then.

[QUOTE=srobins;50885184]What relevance is somebody's gender identity to the state? The only reason a Sex/Gender field exists on an identification card in the first place is to help identify somebody and verify who they are. A big X completely invalidates the point of the field, it doesn't tell you anything useful about them and effectively makes it more difficult to identify somebody because you basically just wrote "whatever" on one of the fields. If you write "light skinned.. or black skinned.. or, I don't know, really pale? But sometimes black." in the "Race" field it would make it completely useless, no? Same here.[/QUOTE] You're trying to portray this measure as something that would make ID cards more vague and confusing when it really wont. For starters, according to the article, they won't let you change it willy nilly. You would need proof of your gender identity. Secondly, that X on the identifying card is just as valid as a F or M because law enforcement and other parties would know who to look for in the case of missing persons, do in healthcare, and etc etc.

[QUOTE=DiscoMelon;50885200]please, this thread is already headed to the shitter by virtue of involving the topic of gender identity, it doesn't need your baiting to get us there faster.[/QUOTE] Is there any scientific evidence that suggests gender fluidity is even remotely valid, like there is for transgenderism? [QUOTE=axelord157;50885227]You're trying to portray this measure as something that would make ID cards more vague and confusing when it really wont. For starters, according to the article, they won't let you change it willy nilly. You would need proof of your gender identity. Secondly, that X on the identifying card is just as valid as a F or M [B]because law enforcement and other parties would know who to look for in the case of missing persons[/B], do in healthcare, and etc etc.[/QUOTE] How? The "X" literally means "they're (n)either(?) male or female". You may as well just remove that field from the card, what is a cop going to do when he sees "X" on the license? It describes nothing about the person other than their feelings. [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] I mean seriously, describe to me the utility of having "X" on the card other than to make the card holder feel nice.

oh no an extra letter on the id card

who would be harmed by this? what possible opposition could you have to making people feel better at no cost to anyone?

[QUOTE=Judas;50885292]who would be harmed by this? what possible opposition could you have to making people feel better at no cost to anyone?[/QUOTE] It could possibly cause issues with validity of the license in foreign countries. But it is more of a problem on the foreign countries end, and not Canada itself.

Most people don't even look at the gender on an ID. It's the picture that matters the most to anyone just giving it a check. Or for official stuff, the license number. If it's anything like ours anyway, I'm not sure. Eye color on an ID can be rendered equally useless with the use of colored contacts.

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50885129]Needless or not, does it really hurt anyone?[/QUOTE] could add to difficulties in identification of bodies during accidents

[QUOTE=srobins;50885248]Is there any scientific evidence that suggests gender fluidity is even remotely valid, like there is for transgenderism? How? The "X" literally means "they're (n)either(?) male or female". You may as well just remove that field from the card, what is a cop going to do when he sees "X" on the license? It describes nothing about the person other than their feelings. [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] I mean seriously, describe to me the utility of having "X" on the card other than to make the card holder feel nice.[/QUOTE] For somebody hootin and hollerin about how this is only about feelings, you sure have yours involved like a motherfucker. It's meant so that officials know how to refer to the ID card holder. AKA their pronouns and such. How would you like your ID card to inaccurately describe you as a female? That would actually create more confusion. Btw, gender-fluidity doesn't mean neither. It means somewhere in between the gender spectrum of male and female.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50885326]could add to difficulties in identification of bodies during accidents[/QUOTE] Also, there is no need for a gender that's out of the norm to be on a card. What significant information does it give you? Biological sex is much more important on an ID card.

how is it possible to be neither male or female in terms of sex

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50885129]Needless or not, does it really hurt anyone?[/QUOTE] Yes. It has actually been making it harder to get passports.

Just use XX and XY labels

[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;50885373]how is it possible to be neither male or female in terms of sex[/QUOTE] There are super rare cases where they are neither and are '[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex"]Intersex[/URL]' instead.

[QUOTE=Pascall;50885317]Most people don't even look at the gender on an ID. It's the picture that matters the most to anyone just giving it a check. Or for official stuff, the license number. If it's anything like ours anyway, I'm not sure. Eye color on an ID can be rendered equally useless with the use of colored contacts.[/QUOTE] Not to mention height and weight, both of which are frequently lied about and can change on a day to day basis.