Robert Murray says late changes to Senate tax-cut bill ‘wipes out' what Trump has done for coal - Polidicks

[URL="http://thehill.com/news-by-subject/energy-environment/363496-coal-ceo-gop-tax-bill-wipes-us-out-destroys-thousands-of"]http://thehill.com/news-by-subject/energy-environment/363496-coal-ceo-gop-tax-bill-wipes-us-out-destroys-thousands-of[/URL] I am curious of the so called progress Trump apparently made. Also those jobs aren't coming back.

Has he managed to do something good by being incompetent?

Silver linings.

Seems all the sitting around and praying that God's Appointed Champion, Trump, can give these people their jobs back blew up right in their faces. Who could've guessed. I can only try to feel bad for them, but it's hard after all the chances they've been given to retrain and reenter the work force, only to stubbornly refuse in favor of holding out for Trump to Save Coal.

[QUOTE=Eva-1337;52951616]Seems all the sitting around and praying that God's Appointed Champion, Trump, can give these people their jobs back blew up right in their faces. Who could've guessed. I can only try to feel bad for them, but it's hard after all the chances they've been given to retrain and reenter the work force, only to stubbornly refuse in favor of holding out for Trump to Save Coal.[/QUOTE] Every sign points towards fossil fuels dying out in the next decade of so. Why would anyone continue to work in an industry that is destined to fail?

[QUOTE=Shadow801;52951752]Every sign points towards fossil fuels dying out in the next decade of so. Why would anyone continue to work in an industry that is destined to fail?[/QUOTE] I welcome you to sit down and talk to those 50 and 60 year old coal miners that got a job in a mine right out of high school and explain to them why they have to change career now or lose all the money the have for retirement. I by no means support using coal in any capacity and I welcome the industry ending in the near future, but to be so completely ignorant of the other side and their reasons for being there just breeds blind disagreement and partisanship.

[QUOTE=Shadow801;52951752]Every sign points towards fossil fuels dying out in the next decade of so. Why would anyone continue to work in an industry that is destined to fail?[/QUOTE] Because God-Emperor Trump promised it and anyone who says he's lying is fake news. He told them exactly what they wanted to hear: you don't need to change your way of life, I'll bring coal back instead of trying to make your family learn a new career type. Trump is unironically referred to as a God-Emperor on /r/t_d btw. It's a cult of personality.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52951890]I welcome you to sit down and talk to those 50 and 60 year old coal miners that got a job in a mine right out of high school and explain to them why they have to change career now or lose all the money the have for retirement. I by no means support using coal in any capacity and I welcome the industry ending in the near future, but to be so completely ignorant of the other side and their reasons for being there just breeds blind disagreement and partisanship.[/QUOTE] Frankly, I wouldn't know what to say to them because there is no soft way to put it. At the same time, to prop up a dying industry for the sake of keeping coal miners employed would put an extreme burden on taxpayers as well. Money that could be better spent on directly supporting those that got their jobs destroyed by the decline of coal.

It's simple first year economics that it's only worth subsidizing or protecting an industry that you expect to become competitive at some point in the future. Coal is not that... I sympathize with people who made that their career and I'd hope that they can eventually get placed in some other field of employment but I really doubt they're ever got to see a true coal renaissance, and if they keep clinging to it they're going to end up miserable and destitute.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52951890]I welcome you to sit down and talk to those 50 and 60 year old coal miners that got a job in a mine right out of high school and explain to them why they have to change career now or lose all the money the have for retirement. I by no means support using coal in any capacity and I welcome the industry ending in the near future, but to be so completely ignorant of the other side and their reasons for being there just breeds blind disagreement and partisanship.[/QUOTE] 50 or 60 year olds should not be in coal mines.

[QUOTE=nagachief;52952406]Frankly, I wouldn't know what to say to them because there is no soft way to put it. At the same time, to prop up a dying industry for the sake of keeping coal miners employed would put an extreme burden on taxpayers as well. Money that could be better spent on directly supporting those that got their jobs destroyed by the decline of coal.[/QUOTE] I completely agree that they should be helped, but we live in a boostraps-GOP led government. The Republicans could care less about the workers so long as the company heads get their end of year bonus. [editline]6th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadow801;52952425]50 or 60 year olds should not be in coal mines.[/QUOTE] Why not?

[QUOTE=froztshock;52952420]It's simple first year economics that it's only worth subsidizing or protecting an industry that you expect to become competitive at some point in the future.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily. Negative externalities can make it a net benefit to subsidize/protect certain industries. Because real-world economics is full of contested details, I'll construct an example from scratch (and do it with something other than fuels so nobody thinks I'm making thinly-veiled references): Consider two food animals, A and B. For simplicity, let's assume there's no other comparable products, just these two competing with each other. A is cheaper to produce, and is sold for the same price, but the animals serve as a reservoir for some nasty disease (let's say the virus lies dormant in them, is killed by cooking but mosquitoes that bite them can then transmit the disease to humans). Absent any government intervention, it is obvious that A would dominate the marketplace. However, society would be better off if B were the more common. Thus, a subsidy on B, or a special tax on A, would be the best course of action even if one had no reason to expect the production cost of B to decrease. [editline]6th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52952463]Why not?[/QUOTE] Working in coal mines, despite all our technology, requires a good amount of physical strength and stamina, and carries risk of injury. There is definitely a point at which physical frailty becomes a problem, becoming a risk to other workers. Depending on the person, 50 years might be fine, but 60 is really pushing it.

My 57-year-old dad is a coal miner, and according to him, he simply drives an inloader around all day long. He's looking to retire though, and in three years, I think he will finally be able to.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;52952735] Working in coal mines, despite all our technology, requires a good amount of physical strength and stamina, and carries risk of injury. There is definitely a point at which physical frailty becomes a problem, becoming a risk to other workers. Depending on the person, 50 years might be fine, but 60 is really pushing it.[/QUOTE] Age is irrelevant if they are physically capable to do it.

I'm going to laugh if the coal lobby ends up being the reason this tax bill fails. Broken clock theory and all that, but hey, take what we can get.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52952817]Age is irrelevant if they are physically capable to do it.[/QUOTE] Age has a very direct relation to whether or not they are physically capable of doing it. Are you just arguing semantics or do you have a point beyond "not all 50YOs are too old for coal mining, just most of them"?

eat shit bob

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52952817]Age is irrelevant if they are physically capable to do it.[/QUOTE] Yeah no, age is totally a factor on whether you can bust ass in a mine or not. No matter what, by the time you're up there, biological changes have already kicked in, degrading the elasticity of tissues and structural integrity of bone, and prolonged labor [I]will[/I] only make it worse. Although air quality is probably maintained well with current technology, no amount of Bengay or Aspirins will stop joint damage or disc thinning/herniations in the vertebra and I seriously doubt many would have the sense to visit a chiropractor, much less know what one is there. Just cause "dah, me stronk 50-60 year man" doesn't mean you're safe from crippling yourself.