My car has been sitting on ramps for weeks now, I'm out of ideas but maybe you guys can help.
First off the car is a 12v VR6 Jetta (2000). The problem is I put the key in the ignition, turn it (lights/radio etc come on at this point) then I turn it further to start and it just sits there. I hear what I think are pumps going but nothing that sounds like the car is trying to start. However if the car is rolling (push started) it starts up without issue.
Here's what I've tried and in this order:
-Jump start on two different vehicles
-Cleaned terminals and contacts on battery and starter
-Replaced starter motor
-Replaced ignition switch
-Tested and confirmed starter relay as working
-Bypassed clutch sensor
-Tested with known working battery
I'm stuck. Its still doing the exact same thing and I have no idea how to proceed, I [i]really[/i] don't want to have to fork over the cash needed for a mechanic.
Any suggestions or ideas?
Pretty much every thing you've done is what I would have suggested. It's obviously a a problem between the ignition and starter though since it doesn't try to turn over. If the car has an alarm system you may want to make sure that it's not keeping the car from starting.
Thanks for the input, it does have an alarm system and I've looked into how it works just in case that was the issue. Apparently 1999-2005 Jettas do have an immobilizer but the alarm system doesn't trigger it, its triggered by a bad key match or no key present. The immobilizer also kicks in about 2 seconds after the engine starts, in my case the engine doesn't do anything at all. One thing I forgot to mention is that I've checked each fuse too, every single one of them looks good.
I do have a service manual with wiring diagrams, the starter circuit isn't even that complex its just a lot of the wires are buried and hidden deep down in the vehicle. I don't really know where to start troubleshooting electrical gremlins.
youve probably already spent more than it would cost to have a specialist diagnose the problem and replace the specific part, rather than every possible thing.
I've only spent a total of about $160 for the starter motor and ignition switch, the starter motor was on its last legs anyway since it kept making an annoyingly loud grinding sound whenever the car started. I thought it just bit the dust which is why I purchased a new one. Where I live pretty much any work that needs to be done on a European car is extremely expensive, since its looking like some kind of wiring problem I can't imagine how much a mechanic would charge to hunt it down.
Try and run a jump wire from the battery to the starter trigger and see if it works, it could be a bad starter. Also check for voltage drops from the cables.
I would just wire the starter to a button and when you want to start your car just turn on the key and push the button to start it. I did that on one of my old cars and it works great. Just don't leave it in gear when you start it.
Also you never listed checking your neutral safety switch, can you test that too?
good idea right there ^
[QUOTE=blong4life;29123921]Also you never listed checking your neutral safety switch, can you test that too?[/QUOTE]
The car doesn't have one, only the clutch sensor. I think neutral safety is only in automatic models.
[QUOTE=blong4life;29121369]Try and run a jump wire from the battery to the starter trigger and see if it works, it could be a bad starter. Also check for voltage drops from the cables.[/QUOTE]
I used a multimeter to test the voltage delivered to the starter when the key is turned and it is getting the proper amount of voltage. I also tested the grounds and its properly grounded. So that pretty much just leaves the starter motor, the only thing is that the starter is brand new. If I listen closely I can hear a faint buzzing noise when the key is turned to the start position. It does the same thing if I bypass the whole ignition system and wire it directly to the battery.
What are the chances that the new starter motor is defective? I wouldn't think a brand new part simply wouldn't work. Is it possible that the teeth on the flywheel are stripped and that buzzing sound is the starter turning? I have yet to test the new motor when its not in the engine so I'll need to get on that.
[QUOTE=M2k3;29133974]The car doesn't have one, only the clutch sensor. I think neutral safety is only in automatic models.
[/QUOTE]
This is true
I can start the volvo in 5th with the clutch in
If the starter was turning on missing teeth you'd hear a loud spinning, not a faint buzzing.
It's possible your new starter is bad. It happens a lot more than people think, especially if the part you got was really a re-manufactured part, instead of 100% new. Did you have to return your starter, or pay an additional fee for not doing so? Then your part was re-manufactured.
If you have a warranty on it, get that shit replaced free. Worst you can do is just have received another new free starter.
[QUOTE=M2k3;29133974]The car doesn't have one, only the clutch sensor. I think neutral safety is only in automatic models.
I used a multimeter to test the voltage delivered to the starter when the key is turned and it is getting the proper amount of voltage. I also tested the grounds and its properly grounded. So that pretty much just leaves the starter motor, the only thing is that the starter is brand new. If I listen closely I can hear a faint buzzing noise when the key is turned to the start position. It does the same thing if I bypass the whole ignition system and wire it directly to the battery.
What are the chances that the new starter motor is defective? I wouldn't think a brand new part simply wouldn't work. Is it possible that the teeth on the flywheel are stripped and that buzzing sound is the starter turning? I have yet to test the new motor when its not in the engine so I'll need to get on that.[/QUOTE]
Use your meter to check the current flow to the starter (assuming you've got a meter that will survive amps). It may be that something in the engine is loading the starter for more torque than it is rated for. Just because you can bump start it doesn't mean that something isn't sticking a bit too much.
[QUOTE=bradley;29134121]If the starter was turning on missing teeth you'd hear a loud spinning, not a faint buzzing.
It's possible your new starter is bad. It happens a lot more than people think, especially if the part you got was really a re-manufactured part, instead of 100% new. Did you have to return your starter, or pay an additional fee for not doing so? Then your part was re-manufactured.
If you have a warranty on it, get that shit replaced free. Worst you can do is just have received another new free starter.[/QUOTE]
The part is supposed to be new, I specifically didn't want a re manufactured part in case something like this came up. I just pulled it out and tested it, nothing. Looks like its a dud what a bummer, and all this time I thought it was an electrical problem. Another 2 weeks of waiting for a working starter :bang:
Well, at least you've found the problem, and don't have to pay a mechanic now. Hopefully.
2 weeks of waiting for a starter? I usually get aftermarket stuff because of that. Generally the part is the same quality (unless you get the cheap shit or reman parts) and there is usually a warranty on it as well so you'll be fine on that. Autozone is my choice for parts. But KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. The people working there are fucking retarded. I've had to tell them more than half a dozen times they brought me the wrong part to the counter.
Went to get a thermostat the other day, saw it was wrong:
"This is what came up."
"Well, that's not my part. Something is wrong here, this doesn't have the heat tube on the back or the little poppet in the base plate..."
*looks at box* "Dude, you even grabbed the wrong part number." *facepalm*
Anyways, they deal through Duralast, great parts company, good warranty system.Valucraft is their cheaper brand and sells reman parts, I only reccomend them for cheap ass stuff, like gaskets for insignificant things (I got a Duralast t-stat but Valucraft rubber gasket).
Anyways, good luck. Double-check your starter wiring so that you don't accidentally burn the new one up, that would be disappointing. Not sure if it's the same on the VR6 starters but most starters have two similar looking terminals and one wire for the solenoid. Usually not too hard to tell apart though.
the problem is that its a vw
[QUOTE=bradley;29145153]2 weeks of waiting for a starter? I usually get aftermarket stuff because of that. Generally the part is the same quality (unless you get the cheap shit or reman parts) and there is usually a warranty on it as well so you'll be fine on that. Autozone is my choice for parts. But KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. The people working there are fucking retarded. I've had to tell them more than half a dozen times they brought me the wrong part to the counter.
Went to get a thermostat the other day, saw it was wrong:
"This is what came up."
"Well, that's not my part. Something is wrong here, this doesn't have the heat tube on the back or the little poppet in the base plate..."
*looks at box* "Dude, you even grabbed the wrong part number." *facepalm*
Anyways, they deal through Duralast, great parts company, good warranty system.Valucraft is their cheaper brand and sells reman parts, I only reccomend them for cheap ass stuff, like gaskets for insignificant things (I got a Duralast t-stat but Valucraft rubber gasket).
Anyways, good luck. Double-check your starter wiring so that you don't accidentally burn the new one up, that would be disappointing. Not sure if it's the same on the VR6 starters but most starters have two similar looking terminals and one wire for the solenoid. Usually not too hard to tell apart though.[/QUOTE]
I'm ordering the part from the States, I would love to just go to a local shop around here but being in Canada means I'm going to be paying at least $100 more for the same part. With the dollar values so close I can really save $$ but the wait can be annoying. VWs aren't really common around here either, a lot of the places I called wouldn't have the part in stock for "maybe a month or two" and couldn't special order it. If they could special order then it would cost me about $250 CAD for the part. For small cheap stuff I always try to go local though.
The starter wiring isn't too hard to mess up since the solenoid connects using a special plug and the wire for the motor is bolted on. If it was mixed up the car would probably jolt forward and flatten me as the battery was being connected.
[QUOTE=abcpea2;29145756]the problem is that its a vw[/QUOTE]
Empty wallets are a VW thing, you wouldn't understand.
I had this problem with my Chevy Impala 2002. From what I can remember it was electrical. I had a fuse and some electric engine component replace in my car. There would be some days my car would not start unless I sat their holding the key for 15-20 mins.
[QUOTE=abcpea2;29145756]the problem is that its a vw[/QUOTE]
anybody who has owned a vw for any considerable period of time will actually agree with this.
my friend with a 1.8t golf posted on vwvortex and he got like 4 replies saying "the problem is you're trying to boost a vdub"
[editline]13th April 2011[/editline]
but vw guys are weird so they like that there cars are unreliable, i mean have character.
note, im not hating on vw's, just relaying facts
[QUOTE=lemon_lover;29155098]anybody who has owned a vw for any considerable period of time will actually agree with this.
my friend with a 1.8t golf posted on vwvortex and he got like 4 replies saying "the problem is you're trying to boost a vdub"
[editline]13th April 2011[/editline]
but vw guys are weird so they like that there cars are unreliable, i mean have character.
note, im not hating on vw's, just relaying facts[/QUOTE]
I have to agree Honda's are Super reliable but ain't got no character. VWs are cars with soul... or as Jeremy Clarkson would say. "Its built with Passion".
Fiery passion, and and blowing up passionately.
[QUOTE=NecroTitan;29155985]I have to agree Honda's are Super reliable but ain't got no character. VWs are cars with soul... or as Jeremy Clarkson would say. "Its built with Passion".[/QUOTE]
Jeeps have both :)
[QUOTE=IllegalPaste;29162754]Jeeps have both :)[/QUOTE]
Beep Beep we love Jeeps
Just Empty Every Pocket. I wouldn't mind a Comanche though.
[QUOTE=Del91;29164622]Just Empty Every Pocket. I wouldn't mind a Comanche though.[/QUOTE]
The Jeep doesn't use much more fuel than the Volvo I'm already driving so I won't notice much difference
Naw that saying comes from people who buy parts or have a mechanic work on their Jeep for them, nothing to do with mileage. :v:
I got a nice jeep 225k, paid $400 for it things mint put a motor in it with some other work, looking at some new ones this weekend with like 160k!
[QUOTE=Del91;29183702]Naw that saying comes from people who buy parts or have a mechanic work on their Jeep for them, nothing to do with mileage. :v:[/QUOTE]
I'm talking norwegian money now but:
The radiator has a huge leak in it and I looked at prices for used ones at the junkyard and they were 2000,- (for radiators that you don't know what condition it is in)
A brand new radiator sent from the Jeep factory in USA with shipping and handling cost me 1300,- and even though the toll and customs is being added after I get it, it'll still be cheaper than a used one and the cheap one is brand new from the factory.
To compare so you get an idea of how much money it is:
A brand new game (like Crysis 2 or whatever) costs around 500,-
[QUOTE=Ldesu;29184949]I'm talking norwegian money now but:
The radiator has a huge leak in it and I looked at prices for used ones at the junkyard and they were 2000,- (for radiators that you don't know what condition it is in)
A brand new radiator sent from the Jeep factory in USA with shipping and handling cost me 1300,- and even though the toll and customs is being added after I get it, it'll still be cheaper than a used one and the cheap one is brand new from the factory.
To compare so you get an idea of how much money it is:
A brand new game (like Crysis 2 or whatever) costs around 500,-[/QUOTE]
Do the chicks like your Jeep?
Would I get pussy if I brought my sisters, husbands Ram 1500 over?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yEtp2.jpg[/IMG]
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