Major Donor Reconsiders Support for Democrats Who Urged Al Franken to Quit - Polidicks

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/07/us/susie-tompkins-buell-al-franken.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&src=trending&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Trending&pgtype=article"]source[/URL] [QUOTE]A prominent donor to the Democratic Party says she is considering withdrawing support for senators who urged their colleague Al Franken to resign after he was accused of sexual misconduct. The donor, Susie Tompkins Buell, has been one of the Democratic Party’s most generous supporters for decades. In particular, she has been a champion of female politicians, including Senators Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Maria Cantwell of Washington. Last month, those senators were among the [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/us/politics/franken-harrassment-resign.html"]dozens who called for Mr. Franken to resign[/URL] from the Senate after at least six women accused him of sexual harassment or misconduct, such as forcible kissing and groping. [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/us/politics/al-franken-senate-sexual-harassment.html"]Mr. Franken announced his resignation[/URL] on Dec. 7 before the Senate Ethics Committee had completed a review of the accusations, which he disputed. Before he was elected to the Senate to represent Minnesota in 2008, Mr. Franken, a Democrat, was a well-known comedian and a cast member on “Saturday Night Live.” After he resigned, Lt. Gov. Tina Smith of Minnesota was [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/tina-smith-minnesota-senate.html"]named as his replacement. [/URL] Ms. Buell said in a text message on Saturday that withdrawing support from the senators who called for his resignation was “an option” she was considering. “In my gut they moved too fast,” she wrote, adding that Mr. Franken “was never given his chance to tell his side of the story.” “For me this is dangerous and wrong,” she added. “I am a big believer in helping more women into the political system but this has given me an opportunity to rethink of how I can best help my party.” [/QUOTE]

good for her

ok bye

When will someone think about the poor multi-million dollar donors?

I don't see what's wrong with what she did, she's threatening to pull donations as a way to signify her disapproval of people jumping to / forcing resignation the minute allegations arise, rather than waiting for there to be some sort of actual due process, ie. waiting for proof or a proper case before pulling the resignation card. It's the correct viewpoint to have tbh, because if this becomes a trend then people can use allegations as a political weapon to cause their targets to step down or be forced to step down. She's not saying she's standing by his actions if they did occur a la Roy Moore

I mean, she's not wrong. I think even Roy Moore deserved to have his time to make his scum laiden case on the matter. That's how a proper society works, we have rational and proper discourse where evidence is presented and both sides are given proper and adequate representation for their own case. The fact they instantly jumped to "resign because of allegations" is further fuel for a very toxic political game. Imagine if anyone could just pay someone a hundred bucks to say their opponent raped them and it's instant political victory because everyone knee jerked so fast and hard like this. It's absurd.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;53033598]I mean, she's not wrong. I think even Roy Moore deserved to have his time to make his scum laiden case on the matter. That's how a proper society works, we have rational and proper discourse where evidence is presented and both sides are given proper and adequate representation for their own case. The fact they instantly jumped to "resign because of allegations" is further fuel for a very toxic political game. Imagine if anyone could just pay someone a hundred bucks to say their opponent raped them and it's instant political victory because everyone knee jerked so fast and hard like this. It's absurd.[/QUOTE] Al Franken was implicated by photographic evidence.

[QUOTE=IKTM;53033690]Al Franken was implicated by photographic evidence.[/QUOTE] Okay, and that means his resignation is perfectly justified probably. Doesn't excuse people calling for blood before we had time to actually form a proper verdict on the matter. Photos can be faked with extreme attention to detail to the point of looking believably real, this is 2018 not 1918.

[QUOTE=IKTM;53033690]Al Franken was implicated by photographic evidence.[/QUOTE] Photos with EXIF data that disagreed with the stated facts of the accusations, mind you.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;53035031]Photos with EXIF data that disagreed with the stated facts of the accusations, mind you.[/QUOTE] [t]https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_46/2228926/171116-al-franken-leeann-tweeden-airplane-se-1105a_cdbd11d4ba4f856a53dca9fe3803882f.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg[/t] Trying to come up with some pithy response but you know what, fuck it, just look at the picture for God's sake man

[QUOTE=mcharest;53036458][t]https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_46/2228926/171116-al-franken-leeann-tweeden-airplane-se-1105a_cdbd11d4ba4f856a53dca9fe3803882f.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg[/t] Trying to come up with some pithy response but you know what, fuck it, just look at the picture for God's sake man[/QUOTE] Yeah it's a pretty damning photo but the EXIF data is a PART of what makes a photo in a modern context so reliable, we can go look at the info associated with it. So, the EXIF data is wrong, and your response to that, rather than curiosity or thoughtful patience, it's "NO FUCK THAT". Please, you're not helping.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53036466]So, the EXIF data is wrong, and your response to that, rather than curiosity or thoughtful patience, it's "NO FUCK THAT". Please, you're not helping.[/QUOTE] Save your condescension please. On a list of things that aren't helping, trying to parse this obviously inappropriate bullshit that anyone with a shred of intelligence and respect wouldn't ever think of doing is probably pretty high up. Unless this talk of EXIF data goes beyond "well, he didn't grope her at the [I]exact date and time[/I] she said he did" I don't want to hear it. Franken was a grown man when this happened. A well-educated, powerful, adult man. And he behaved disgracefully, on multiple occasions, not just this one. I'm glad he resigned, I don't miss him, and fuck every last hypocrite who rushed to defend him while claiming to give a shit about sexual harassment.

[QUOTE=mcharest;53036458][t]https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_46/2228926/171116-al-franken-leeann-tweeden-airplane-se-1105a_cdbd11d4ba4f856a53dca9fe3803882f.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg[/t] Trying to come up with some pithy response but you know what, fuck it, just look at the picture for God's sake man[/QUOTE] His hands are clearly hovering over the chest, man. It might be a bad joke but it's far from sexual harassment. That's ignoring the fact that, like he said, the EXIF data actively disproves several of the accusations in her story.

[QUOTE=TraderRager;53036511]His hands are clearly hovering over the chest, man. It might be a bad joke but it's far from sexual harassment.[/QUOTE] It's not "far from" sexual harassment. It's sexual harassment. Plain and simple. Saying it was a bad joke is the sexual harassment equivalent of saying “it was just a prank bro” As for the EXIF data, I honestly don’t know if Tweeden was misremembering events from years ago or if she was intentionally trying to smear Franken by capitalizing on a social movement for political gain. What I do know is that Al Franken’s conduct was objectively, and repeatedly, disgraceful.

People are [I]still[/I] defending Al Franken? He's had like 8 people accuse him. Even if some of the claims are hard to prove, I highly doubt they're all bogus - and when you combine that with the photographs, it paints a picture of a man who doesn't know how to keep his hands to himself. We don't need people like him in office, even if they were supposed to be "one of the good ones."

[QUOTE=mcharest;53036524]It's not far from sexual harassment. It's sexual harassment. Plain and simple. Saying it was a bad joke is the sexual harassment equivalent of saying “it was just a prank bro” As for the EXIF data, I honestly don’t know if Tweeden was misremembering events from years ago or if she was intentionally trying to smear Franken by capitalizing on a social movement for political gain. What I do know is that Al Franken’s conduct was objectively, and repeatedly, disgraceful.[/QUOTE] So is it sexual harassment, or is it "not far", just wondering based on your word choice. I've thought he's guilty for months, so "save the condescension please". It does however warrant questioning. If there are extenuating circumstances, whatever they are, wouldn't that be good to know when information is clashing?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53036466]Yeah it's a pretty damning photo but the EXIF data is a PART of what makes a photo in a modern context so reliable, we can go look at the info associated with it. So, the EXIF data is wrong, and your response to that, rather than curiosity or thoughtful patience, it's "NO FUCK THAT". Please, you're not helping.[/QUOTE] aahahahha.. Oh wait you're serious. I didn't know there was exif data that magically changes the fact he sexually harassed someone. Is the hands of the guy hovering over the breasts of a female soldier just a chromatic abberation or lens flare?

[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;53036755]Is the hands of the guy hovering over the breasts of a female soldier just a chromatic abberation or lens flare?[/QUOTE] Tweeden isn't a soldier, she was on the USO tour with Franken. Be obtuse and dickish as you want, but don't make shit up to further your narrative.

[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;53036755]aahahahha.. Oh wait you're serious. I didn't know there was exif data that magically changes the fact he sexually harassed someone. Is the hands of the guy hovering over the breasts of a female soldier just a chromatic abberation or lens flare?[/QUOTE] It kinda kills me that you're calling me out for caring about information being accurate while basically 1) making shit up or 2) just totally unaware of the actual facts of the story.

Why don't people explain why the EXIF data makes the claims dubious?

[QUOTE=_Axel;53037521]Why don't people explain why the EXIF data makes the claims dubious?[/QUOTE] Because it shows the accusation was, at best, in-accurate, at worst fabricated. [editline]9th January 2018[/editline] There's also the fact that there's no way she's sleeping in that jacket either. There was some much more comprehensive debunking on Reddit back when this was a story, but long story short her accusation didn't make much sense and looked to be a republican plant. But that doesn't account for the other accusers so idk

[QUOTE=SataniX;53037539]Because it shows the accusation was, at best, in-accurate, at worst fabricated.[/QUOTE] That still doesn't explain why the EXIF data shows that...

[QUOTE=SataniX;53037539]Because it shows the accusation was, at best, in-accurate, at worst fabricated. [editline]9th January 2018[/editline] There's also the fact that there's no way she's sleeping in that jacket either. There was some much more comprehensive debunking on Reddit back when this was a story, but long story short her accusation didn't make much sense and looked to be a republican plant. But that doesn't account for the other accusers so idk[/QUOTE] In the end, Franken could have stayed and faced an ethics committee probably run by a bunch of hypocritical republicans, or done nothing, or this. It was all his choice, as we see, the republicans aren't about to put decency above party.

[QUOTE=_Axel;53037567]That still doesn't explain why the EXIF data shows that...[/QUOTE] She claims it happened on Christmas Eve '06 flying back after the tour. EXIF data says the jpg was created on 12/21/06 at 17:19 PM. Also shows it was taken from a Nikon D2H. Which was the camera issued to USAF Combat Camera...So - the photo was likely taken by either a pro photog with USO or Combat Camera. Finally - the photo was (again proven by EXIF) edited on the exact day Franken won the 2009 election against Coleman. Again - to be clear, not defending him - but there's a lot of irregularities. [editline]9th January 2018[/editline] Oh, and the soldier who was her security escort also said she was lying. But yeah, totally not Republicans trying to distract from Moore with a distasteful image.

[QUOTE=TraderRager;53037174]Tweeden isn't a soldier, she was on the USO tour with Franken. Be obtuse and dickish as you want, but don't make shit up to further your narrative.[/QUOTE] Dude, chill out. He's not necessarily making shit up to further his narrative, he probably just assumed Tweeden was military since she was wearing camo and kevlar. Some major news outlets even made that mistake when the story first broke. [QUOTE=SataniX;53037590]She claims it happened on Christmas Eve '06 flying back after the tour. EXIF data says the jpg was created on 12/21/06 at 17:19 PM. Also shows it was taken from a Nikon D2H. Which was the camera issued to USAF Combat Camera...So - the photo was likely taken by either a pro photog with USO or Combat Camera.[/quote] The irregularities in the EXIF are ultimately irrelevant. The fact that Franken didn't grope Tweeden [I]at the exact date and time she said he did[/I] doesn't change the fact that he acted like a creep. Honestly after more than a decade I wouldn't be surprised if she just misremembered the date. It's fine to call out irregularities in Tweeden's story, but to use those (minor) irregularities to cast doubt on Tweeden's story as a whole, as some on this site have done (and judging from this thread, continue to do) is not okay.

[QUOTE=mcharest;53038087]Dude, chill out. He's not necessarily making shit up to further his narrative, he probably just assumed Tweeden was military since she was wearing camo and kevlar. Some major news outlets even made that mistake when the story first broke. The irregularities in the EXIF are ultimately irrelevant. The fact that Franken didn't grope Tweeden [I]at the exact date and time she said he did[/I] doesn't change the fact that he acted like a creep. Honestly after more than a decade I wouldn't be surprised if she just misremembered the date. It's fine to call out irregularities in Tweeden's story, but to use those (minor) irregularities to cast doubt on Tweeden's story as a whole, as some on this site have done (and judging from this thread, continue to do) is not okay.[/QUOTE] Look, sexual assualt is serious. People who commit it should go to trial. This should go to trial, is my opinion. Not "The Court of Public Opinion", but honest to god court, and Franken, if as guilty as the photos show will easily go to jail. Is that not a more acceptable course of action, than say, just claiming that you know for a fact, without any questions that you understand the course of events of that day well enough to make damning claims? You yourself even admit that "Some major news outlets made mistakes", so in the court of public opinion, as you're making very clear, facts don't matter. It's what's reported. This is the "FAKE NEWS" bullshit that's honestly causing the divide in the US to grow. Do you know what I fucking want? I want Franken to go to trial. I don't want you, me, or anyone else in this thread to convict him based on the info, and mis-info we have on our hands here. I want a court to find the truth of the matter. But you know what? Keep acting like a condescending dick to me for just so much as wanting ACTUAL justice and for that to be followed the way it should be.

[QUOTE=SataniX;53037539] There's also the fact that there's no way she's sleeping in that jacket either. There was some much more comprehensive debunking on Reddit back when this was a story, but long story short her accusation didn't make much sense and looked to be a republican plant. [/QUOTE] Reddit sure are right about this. I mean they successfully got all those Pizzagate offendors locked up with their incredibly accurate and precise debunking! They're a modern day Mystery Inc. And for what it's worth, I'm 120lbs soaking wet, have little upper body strength, and I was able to sleep perfectly fine while wearing a 1996 Bundeswehr jacket with modern ceramic inserts, for three hours, on a night train. So don't give me this bollocks of "oh, you can't sleep in armor".

The reason a lot of democrats leaped to calling for him resigning is that politically there wasn't a whole lot of risk. The governor is a democrat and was going to appoint a democrat to fill that spot. And it looked really bad to criticize Roy Moore and DJT if you're not gonna deal with harassment in your own party.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53038756]The reason a lot of democrats leaped to calling for him resigning is that politically there wasn't a whole lot of risk. The governor is a democrat and was going to appoint a democrat to fill that spot. And it looked really bad to criticize Roy Moore and DJT if you're not gonna deal with harassment in your own party.[/QUOTE] This basically killed any further scandal that could have been brought up from it because any attempts by the GOP would have been blatantly hypocritical. "Well, what about Al Franken!" "We demanded he resign and he did. What about the sexual harassers in your party." "Uhh, Hillary and Mueller made those up..."

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;53038811]This basically killed any further scandal that could have been brought up from it because any attempts by the GOP would have been blatantly hypocritical. "Well, what about Al Franken!" "We demanded he resign and he did. What about the sexual harassers in your party." "Uhh, Hillary and Mueller made those up..."[/QUOTE] While I dislike how he was essentially forced to resign with no due process, I will say it was incredibly advantageous for the left that he did.