Business owner attacked after comments on transgender bathroom controversy - Polidicks

[QUOTE]The owner of a popular Omaha nightspot started a firestorm on Facebook this week when he suggested transgender women should not use the women’s restroom unless they have had their “appendage” removed and their state identification changed.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]An article he read Tuesday about transgender bathrooms made him think about an assault at his bar, which he said happened a year ago. That led him to post the article along with his comments. He described the incident like this: A person in women’s clothes but with male genitalia urinated in the women’s bathroom standing up. A woman in the bathroom said something. The person assaulted the woman. Bar staff ejected the attacker. The victim did not want a police report made, he said[/QUOTE]. [QUOTE]Gardner, 34, is a self-described libertarian with long hair and a beard. He is also a former Marine, a veteran of deployments to Iraq and Haiti. He says people should be left alone to live as they see fit but says he doesn’t sugarcoat his statements[/QUOTE]. [URL="http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/the-hive-owner-s-comments-on-transgender-people-bathrooms-spark/article_ab33239d-3675-5263-bfbb-f9d58f5a7bf6.html"]http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/the-hive-owner-s-comments-on-transgender-people-bathrooms-spark/article_ab33239d-3675-5263-bfbb-f9d58f5a7bf6.html[/URL]

This thread title is kinda disingenuous. The guy basically said he learned a lot about the transgender community after posting his thoughts on facebook about an article he read, and seems to be considering a better solution. But in the meantime asked transgender people to use the unisex bathroom. A facebook debate is passable as news these days tho I guess. What a huge controversy.

[QUOTE]Despite his social media comments, The Hive does not have a bathroom policy for transgender people, Gardner said, and he does not know whether the bar will establish one. If it does, it would be on the honor system.[/QUOTE] Seems like an okay guy that just wants to avoid altercations.

Are cubicles not a sensible solution then ?

I live here, he was an ass about the issue. A lot of his clients are also liberal, so he's facing some pretty strong backlash right now. Also that assault is entirely anecdotal and no one else backs it up. [QUOTE=DOG-GY;50105093]This thread title is kinda disingenuous. The guy basically said he learned a lot about the transgender community after posting his thoughts on facebook about an article he read, and seems to be considering a better solution. But in the meantime asked transgender people to use the unisex bathroom. A facebook debate is passable as news these days tho I guess. What a huge controversy.[/QUOTE] Or he can let people use the restroom that corresponds with their gender. Instead of dumb fear mongering.

[QUOTE=Rubs10;50107668]I live here, he was an ass about the issue. A lot of his clients are also liberal, so he's facing some pretty strong backlash right now. Also that assault is entirely anecdotal and no one else backs it up. Or he can let people use the restroom that corresponds with their gender. Instead of dumb fear mongering.[/QUOTE] I used to live here and I can confirm he was a total douchebag. And the entire attack is more than likely made up. [editline]10th April 2016[/editline] TBH the hive is an awful bar in the first place

[QUOTE=Paige;50107815] TBH the hive is an awful bar in the first place[/QUOTE] You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50107934]I thought of literal violence when I read the title. Like lynching. I dont know if I can name my feeling now a "letdown". What would be the proper word?[/QUOTE] Criticized? Lambasted? Condemned? Literally anything other than attack.

At this point your fucked if you do and fucked if you dont You either have to cater for the non transgender by making it that only after a full sex change that you can use the appropriate toilets to avoid any of misunderstandings or potential upsets Or you cater for the transgenders which causes the issues above and opens up alot else. Unisex cubicles are pretty much the only way to do it now without -someone- complaining and even then your likely to cop shit for it

IMO, the big mistake was assuming restrooms were about gender and not sex. Just go in the restroom you most look like and there won't be any issues.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50108649]IMO, the big mistake was assuming restrooms were about gender and not sex. Just go in the restroom you most look like and there won't be any issues.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing a man can go into my fiancées restroom to perv on her solely because he says he identifies as a woman. The potential is too great.

[QUOTE=Captain James;50109310]I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing a man can go into my fiancées restroom to perv on her solely because he says he identifies as a woman. The potential is too great.[/QUOTE] Ok so can you source any instances of transwomen attacking people in a bathroom? Or can you source transwomen sexually assaulting someone in a restroom? Can you? [editline]date[/editline] [t]http://images.mic.com/m6cwviam6i4umltyc5ayn8oqp2san37mz1cwecdajvuoxein9g58p7gzswtmlfgu.jpg[/t] [quote]Mic's Derrick Clifton wrote that "roughly 70% of trans people have reported being denied entrance, assaulted or harassed while trying to use a restroom," according to a 2013 Williams Institute report.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109328]Ok so can you source any instances of transwomen attacking people in a bathroom? Or can you source transwomen sexually assaulting someone in a restroom? Can you?[/QUOTE] I don't really empathize with his sentiment, but I'm pretty sure he's not talking about trans people.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50109331]I don't really empathize with his sentiment, but I'm pretty sure he's not talking about trans people.[/QUOTE] But people act like it's suddenly going to be a crime because trans people are given a place to be safe. If someone wanted to sexually assault someone else in a public space, they'd fucking do it. They wouldn't just go to the door and say "Awww shoot, guess I need to find some way to get in there. Guess I'll go home!".

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109388]But people act like it's suddenly going to be a crime because trans people are given a place to be safe. If someone wanted to sexually assault someone else in a public space, they'd fucking do it. They wouldn't just go to the door and say "Awww shoot, guess I need to find some way to get in there. Guess I'll go home!".[/QUOTE] Like I said, that's not my concern. I agree, there probably wouldn't be a mass of sexual assaults if we made bathrooms open to anyone who chose to use them. My position is to just use whatever bathroom you look most like. If you're a transwoman, but still look more like a man, then use the men's restroom and vice-versa. If you're a transwoman and look more like a woman, then use the women's restroom. This will cause zero discomfort to anyone other than the transgender individuals who feel like they NEED to use the bathroom of their choice to feel good about themselves, but also still look like their birth gender.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50109409]Like I said, that's not my concern. I agree, there probably wouldn't be a mass of sexual assaults if we made bathrooms open to anyone who chose to use them. My position is to just use whatever bathroom you look most like. If you're a transwoman, but still look more like a man, then use the men's restroom and vice-versa. If you're a transwoman and look more like a woman, then use the women's restroom. This will cause zero discomfort to anyone other than the transgender individuals who feel like they NEED to use the bathroom of their choice to feel good about themselves, but also still look like their birth gender.[/QUOTE] That's the dumbest way to go about doing this, actually. Where do you draw the line of "looking/not looking" like the gender they identify with? That's so arbitrary. "This will cause zero discomfort to anyone other than the transgender individuals" well no shit, that's exactly what these laws would curtail. In fact, what if someone is mid-transition and they wish to use the women's bathroom. What do you tell them? "Nah you look like a man, sorry, not going to let you feel comfortable doing the most basic biological function because I don't think you look good enough to me"

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109424]That's the dumbest way to go about doing this, actually. Where do you draw the line of "looking/not looking" like the gender they identify with?[/QUOTE] It's pretty clear what people look like. If it's actually so close that you can't tell, then it doesn't matter where you go. I draw the line an basic human intuition. Honestly, I've probably seen, MAYBE, 5 people in my life who I couldn't place in one category or the other. The point is that no one is going to make a stink about it if you look like you should be there.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109424]That's the dumbest way to go about doing this, actually. Where do you draw the line of "looking/not looking" like the gender they identify with?[/QUOTE] It's a lot easier for me to go place a camera in a toilet or be a general creep without necessarily physically assaulting a woman, if the law says I can pretend to be a female because in my head, I feel like one. I don't understand what you're having trouble conceiving here.

[QUOTE=Captain James;50109431]It's a lot easier for me to go place a camera in a toilet or be a general creep without necessarily physically assaulting a woman, if the law says I can pretend to be a female because in my head, I feel like one. [/QUOTE] But none of these laws have suddenly increased that? What stopped a guy from putting a camera in there before? [I]Nothing[/I] I don't understand what you're having trouble conceiving here.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109435]But none of these laws have suddenly increased that? What stopped a guy from putting a camera in there before? [I]Nothing[/I] I don't understand what you're having trouble conceiving here.[/QUOTE] You are missing my resting case so much that it would be comical if not how tedious this is. One situation opens the door for greater potential to get away, the other does not. Edit: having said this, it's early days. You can't expect me to provide countless years or even months of reference points when this is the baby stage for transgender access laws. I'm simply voicing my dissenting opinion and fears. That is what dialogue is.

[QUOTE=Captain James;50109444] One situation opens the door for greater potential to get away, the other does not.[/QUOTE] Then why do all the sources I mentioned earlier totally disprove that. Why is there a negligible at best raise in the rates of, quoting you "pervy guys pretending to be women", with that "situation that opens the door for greater potential to get away"? Why is it, so strangely, that the thing you're most afraid of has had no significant increase whatsoever with these laws being enacted, some of them for nearly a decade or more? Why? Because it's a fear that is totally irrational.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109460]Then why do all the sources I mentioned earlier totally disprove that. Why is there a negligible at best raise in the rates of, quoting you "pervy guys pretending to be women", with that "situation that opens the door for greater potential to get away"? Why is it, so strangely, that the thing you're most afraid of has had no significant increase whatsoever with these laws being enacted, some of them for nearly a decade or more? Why? Because it's a fear that is totally irrational.[/QUOTE] Again, I generally agree with your sentiment, but that chart thing you posted is like the worst source I've ever seen. It's random quotes from random associations. Let's not pretend that it's some authoritative source.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109460]Then why do all the sources I mentioned earlier totally disprove that. Why is there a negligible at best raise in the rates of, quoting you "pervy guys pretending to be women", with that "situation that opens the door for greater potential to get away"? Why is it, so strangely, that the thing you're most afraid of has had no significant increase whatsoever with these laws being enacted, some of them for nearly a decade or more? Why? Because it's a fear that is totally irrational.[/QUOTE] A crime is not a statistic, if the person has gotten away with it. That's like saying "prove x law prevents school shooting", a school shooting is prevented if it was never recorded the same way it never occurred. My fear is rooted in reality, voyeurism is a huge underbelly of restrooms. [editline]11th April 2016[/editline] My input for this would be to simply allow transgender people to have legal priority use for disabled rooms which are unisex, or just create a unisex bathroom altogether without removing gendered rooms, ie; alongside them.

[QUOTE=Rubs10;50107668]Or he can let people use the restroom that corresponds with their gender. Instead of dumb fear mongering.[/QUOTE] I agree that's what should be done but you can't expect everyone to be the bastion for social progress.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50110148]I agree that's what should be done but you can't expect everyone to be the bastion for social progress.[/QUOTE] Lol the only ones that gave a shit were him and some vocal dumbasses So yeah I can justify being upset and him for being out of touch with his clientele.

I still don't get the big controversy about pre-operation transsexuals using unisex bathrooms instead of their post-op gender bathroom. Why the discrepancy? Be discrete instead of acting like Chris Crocker.

[QUOTE=Rubs10;50110240]Lol the only ones that gave a shit were him and some vocal dumbasses So yeah I can justify being upset and him for being out of touch with his clientele.[/QUOTE] Ok. I'll have to take your word on that. This doesn't make this any more news worthy tho. Just cause some guy has trouble accepting that yeah, transgendered people should be able to freely do all the things that the gender they identify as can do, it's also fucked up to vilify the guy for maybe having feelings of discomfort. Like do you really expect that every single person is just gonna be able to easily and smoothly accept all the social standards that come with normalizing transgenderism? Cause that's unrealistic and ignores that people walk very different lives. Especially with something as ingrained as gender norms. What I saw was what seemed to be a decent person getting kicked over something he doesn't understand. If that's not the case and the guy is doing this out of bigotry, that's a different matter entirely.

[QUOTE=Tools;50110246]I still don't get the big controversy about pre-operation transsexuals using unisex bathrooms instead of their post-op gender bathroom. Why the discrepancy? Be discrete instead of acting like Chris Crocker.[/QUOTE] Unisex bathrooms aren't always available.

[QUOTE=Captain James;50109431]It's a lot easier for me to go place a camera in a toilet or be a general creep without necessarily physically assaulting a woman, if the law says I can pretend to be a female because in my head, I feel like one. I don't understand what you're having trouble conceiving here.[/QUOTE] but it has [I]LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENED[/I]. You're scared of these people because you don't understand them or something, not because of fact [editline]11th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Captain James;50109472]A crime is not a statistic, if the person has gotten away with it. That's like saying "prove x law prevents school shooting", a school shooting is prevented if it was never recorded the same way it never occurred. My fear is rooted in reality, voyeurism is a huge underbelly of restrooms. [editline]11th April 2016[/editline] My input for this would be to simply allow transgender people to have legal priority use for disabled rooms which are unisex, or just create a unisex bathroom altogether without removing gendered rooms, ie; alongside them.[/QUOTE] Or you could let them into the restroom of their gender without costing business owners tens of thousands of dollars to install an extra room for less than 0.3% of the populace

Just sidestep all this argumentation and make all public restrooms unisex. Get rid of urinals and install stalls instead.