• Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa
    45 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The Trump administration plans to allow hunters to import trophies of elephants they killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia back to the United States, reversing a ban put in place by the Obama administration in 2014, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official confirmed to ABC News today.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Even though elephants are listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act, a provision in the act allows the government to give permits to import these trophies if there is evidence that the hunting actually benefits conservation for that species. The official said they have new information from officials in Zimbabwe and Zambia to support reversing the ban to allow trophy hunting permits.[/QUOTE] [url]http://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-admin-reverse-ban-elephant-trophies-africa/story?id=51178663[/url]
If it's done legally and you can prove it I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do so.
Could this administration get any more blatantly evil? [editline]16th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=download;52895174]If it's done legally and you can prove it I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do so.[/QUOTE] Because elephants are endangered and there is not a single damn reason for them to be hunted.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/kiJhBQt.jpg[/url] That is an example of what this will encourage. This is wrong - and what for?
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;52895190]Because elephants are endangered and there is not a single damn reason for them to be hunted.[/QUOTE] Most endangered animal preserves in Africa are funded by allowing filthy rich Westerners to shoot a few of their oldest animals. You are effectively denying these preserves the money they need to operate.
[QUOTE=download;52895223]Most endangered animal preserves in Africa are funded by allowing filthy rich Westerners to shoot a few of their oldest animals. You are effectively denying these preserves the money they need to operate.[/QUOTE] This is the first time I'm hearing of it. If it's true, surely you can understand why it isn't common knowledge? Can you source it, for the record?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52895226]This is the first time I'm hearing of it. If it's true, surely you can understand why it isn't common knowledge? Can you source it, for the record?[/QUOTE] A ten second google, dude: [quote]A number of mainstream scientists, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and some conservation groups—including the World Wildlife Fund (which has not returned a request for comment on the Cecil issue)—support regulated trophy hunting. Supporters say regulated hunts raise much-needed money for conservation and help manage populations, since game officials typically try to make sure hunters target animals that are no longer able to breed or that might inhibit the reproduction of others around them.[/quote] [url]https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/150729-lion-trophy-hunting-conservation-animals-cecil/[/url] I was under the impression it is common knowledge.
Keep in mind that a small amount of harvest, even on endangered animals, can be done responsibly if it's extremely well regulated. For example, native peoples in the arctic in North America are allowed to harvest a certain number of polar bears per year. Polar bear hunting is an important part of their way of life and can be literally necessary for survival in that part of the world. The amount that they are allowed to harvest is determined by researchers measuring how many can be killed without harming polar bear population numbers. Some of this quota is sometimes sold to trophy hunters by the native peoples, and this can be an important source of income for them. I don't know if it's an at all similar situation in Africa though, I'm not well versed in conservation in that part of the world. Whether this is a good policy is really dependent on how well it's regulated.
[QUOTE=download;52895223]Most endangered animal preserves in Africa are funded by allowing filthy rich Westerners to shoot a few of their oldest animals. You are effectively denying these preserves the money they need to operate.[/QUOTE] What a perfectly fine reason to trophy hunt endangered animals. As long as we only kill a few of them to sate our instinctual blood lust and appease the horned god of hunting, Cernunnos, it should be fine.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52895226]This is the first time I'm hearing of it. If it's true, surely you can understand why it isn't common knowledge? Can you source it, for the record?[/QUOTE] here's a specific example of a hunt being auctioned off for animal conservation [url]https://www.facebook.com/DallasSafariClub/posts/620656804679231[/url] hunters in general are some of the biggest supporters of animal conservation
[QUOTE=download;52895237]A ten second google, dude:[/QUOTE] Fucking Facepunch, I swear to god. I made the request as politely as possible, but it's just fucking impossible to have a conversation here without sneaking in a bit of condescension, is there? [editline]16th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=butre;52895250]here's a specific example of a hunt being auctioned off for animal conservation [url]https://www.facebook.com/DallasSafariClub/posts/620656804679231[/url] hunters in general are some of the biggest supporters of animal conservation[/QUOTE] Interesting info, thank you
[QUOTE=Paramud;52895249]What a perfectly fine reason to trophy hunt endangered animals. As long as we only kill a few of them to sate our instinctual blood lust and appease the horned god of hunting, Cernunnos, it should be fine.[/QUOTE] Well, if you have a workable solution to the funding problem, do share. I'm sure they'll be interested in hearing your great wisdom. [editline]16th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52895251]Fucking Facepunch, I swear to god. I made the request as politely as possible, but it's just fucking impossible to have a conversation here without sneaking in a bit of condescension, is there? [/QUOTE] I apologise, I should probably have directed my disdain at CartainDOOM's comment.
[QUOTE=Paramud;52895249]What a perfectly fine reason to trophy hunt endangered animals. As long as we only kill a few of them to sate our instinctual blood lust and appease the horned god of hunting, Cernunnos, it should be fine.[/QUOTE] What? It's taking old animals that are likely to die soon anyway to gain massive funds to allow the rest to live. It's nowhere near what you're putting out.
Wasn't there an Adam Ruins Everything about this?
[QUOTE=download;52895256]Well, if you have a workable solution to the funding problem, do share. I'm sure they'll be interested in hearing your great wisdom. [editline]16th November 2017[/editline] I apologise, I should probably have directed my disdain at CartainDOOM's comment.[/QUOTE] I'd recommend against directing disdain against anyone, tbh. Makes you look bad, and on the off chance the other party is actually open to discussion, drives them away. If saying something feels good, it's probably no good. Natural language tends to be disastrous.
[QUOTE=BazzBerry;52895202][url]http://i.imgur.com/kiJhBQt.jpg[/url] That is an example of what this will encourage. This is wrong - and what for?[/QUOTE] Is this fucking Donald Trump Jr.? I swear to god that guy looks just like him.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52895374]Is this fucking Donald Trump Jr.? I swear to god that guy looks just like him.[/QUOTE] I believe it is. I remember seeing that image posted on reddit some months back.
[QUOTE=download;52895237]A ten second google, dude: [url]https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/07/150729-lion-trophy-hunting-conservation-animals-cecil/[/url] I was under the impression it is common knowledge.[/QUOTE] Was not aware of this. It's still a really dumb and weird practice but if it's their only source of income and is regulated as hell I guess it's ok? Really fucking ethically questionable though.
So other than ethical issues, this is still dumb of Trump to do. This is just as usual, Trump reversing all of Obama's policies. [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/11/15/trophies-from-elephant-hunts-in-zimbabwe-were-banned-in-the-u-s-trump-just-reversed-that/[/url] Especially with the Coup happening. Also [quote]Under the Obama administration, elephant-hunting trophies were allowed in countries such as South Africa but not in Zimbabwe because Fish and Wildlife decided in 2015 that the nation had failed to prove that its management of elephants enhanced the population. Zimbabwe could not confirm its elephant population in a way that was acceptable to U.S. officials, and did not demonstrate an ability to implement laws to protect it.[/quote]
Quite frankly the hunting industry is the only reason there is money flowing in to setup the infrastructure to keep the species going and poachers away.
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52895357]Wasn't there an Adam Ruins Everything about this?[/QUOTE] Thought of that instantly. [media]https://youtu.be/YUA8i5S0YMU[/media] This is Facepunch's education on the subject right now. Haven't seen a response to this re: how good vs how bad it is.
Truly what the American people need right now /s
[QUOTE=Toyokunari;52895482]So other than ethical issues, this is still dumb of Trump to do. This is just as usual, Trump reversing all of Obama's policies. [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/11/15/trophies-from-elephant-hunts-in-zimbabwe-were-banned-in-the-u-s-trump-just-reversed-that/[/url] Especially with the Coup happening. Also[/QUOTE] I'll agree with that. If Zimbabwe can't prove the money is being spent protecting the species they should be blacklisted.
Wouldn't lifting this ban have a negative effect, though? Doesn't it easily open up a brand new wealthy market to sell all your poached goods? How hard could it be to claim it was a legit conservation hunt
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52895715]Wouldn't lifting this ban have a negative effect, though? Doesn't it easily open up a brand new wealthy market to sell all your poached goods? How hard could it be to claim it was a legit conservation hunt[/QUOTE] I'm almost entirely sure legitimate hunts have documentation both given to the hunter and archived on site.
Doesn't the OP say beneficial hunts are allowed in the current law?
[QUOTE=download;52895609]I'll agree with that. If Zimbabwe can't prove the money is being spent protecting the species they should be blacklisted.[/QUOTE] Legal or not, I personally can't see why anyone would want to hunt a Elephant.
If you're confused about why he'd do something you agree with or seems all right even with introspection or has benefits for endangered species he doesn't give a shit about, here. [url]https://www.snopes.com/donald-trumps-son-game-hunting-photos/[/url] Imo he did it so his sons can hunt elephants and bring home some trophies again. 🐘
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;52896001]Legal or not, I personally can't see why anyone would want to hunt a Elephant.[/QUOTE] Frankly they're hunting the wrong elephants.
they need to hurry up and legalise trophy hunter hunting, you get to hunt the most dangerous game and save all the others in the process
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