China sets up first unmanned factory; all processes are operated by robots - Polidicks

[url]http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/china-sets-up-first-unmanned-factory-all-processes-are-operated-by-robots/articleshow/48238331.cms[/url] [QUOTE]BEIJING: A Chinese firm specialising in precision technology has set up the first unmanned factory at Dongguan city where all the processes are operated by robots, regarded as futuristic solution to tide over China's looming demographic crisis and dependence on manual workers. In the plant, all the processes are operated by computer- controlled robots, computer numerical control machining equipment, unmanned transport trucks and automated warehouse equipment. A robot arm can replace six to eight workers, now there are 60 workers and the number will be reduced to 20 in the future, Luo Weiqiang, general manager of the company told the Daily. This is the first step of the "robot replace human" programme, it said. In the next two years, the number of robots will be increased to 1,000 and 80 per cent process will be conducted by robots, said Chen Qixing, president of the company. With nearly 200 million people above 60 years and old age population set to rise sharply, China is bracing to face demographic crisis in the near future as it will have fewer work force. Data at the Dongguan factory show that since the robots came to the plant the defect rate of products has dropped from over 25 per cent to less than 5 per cent and the production capacity from more than 8,000 pieces per person per month increased to 21,000 pieces. The company is only a microcosm of Dongguan, one of the manufacturing hubs in China. The city plans to finish 1,000 to 1,500 "robot replace human" programmes by 2016. With the implementation of "Made in China 2025" strategy, a growing number of "unmanned workshops or factories" will come out, the report said. [/QUOTE]

I wonder what ramifications this will have for long term China. Can you imagine what enormous unemployment this would eventually cause if it started replacing manned factories?

China would be blowing their own feet off. Because why not just buy the robot technology and import it to our own countries, might aswell regulate our own robot factories, save the transport fees, right? Like, what china has going for them is that they have people who will work for absolute slave-wages, take that away, level the playing field completely and their economy does an immelmann loop right up its own ass.

[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;48405214]I wonder what ramifications this will have for long term China. Can you imagine what enormous unemployment this would eventually cause if it started replacing manned factories?[/QUOTE] China should be striving to become a leader in technology. Its population is expected to actually decline in the future.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;48405281]China would be blowing their own feet off. Because why not just buy the robot technology and import it to our own countries, might aswell regulate our own robot factories, save the transport fees, right? Like, what china has going for them is that they have people who will work for absolute slave-wages, take that away, level the playing field completely and their economy does an immelmann loop right up its own ass.[/QUOTE]Exceeeeept if they expand their production capabilities at the same time, displacing the unemployment with entirely new jobs and even more automated factories. I can guarantee you that China's probably going to do exactly this, it's one hell of a gamble but it'll turn their fake economic growth into real growth and real productivity. All those empty cities? Yeah, those can be easily filled by forcibly shifting your unemployed workers to the new automated factories which will be a massive boom to their economy. Don't underestimate them, they're rapidly increasing in technological capability and their ultimate goal is to surpass the United States. We've become their big rival, they want to make us second to them in everything and it's actually a great goal for a country like China because it means reworking and improving every aspect of their country. What's the crazy thing is they can absolutely do it, it's also a terrifying prospect because the Chinese don't make any bones about being assholes to get what they want.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;48405281] Like, what china has going for them is that they have people who will work for absolute slave-wages, take that away, level the playing field completely and their economy does an immelmann loop right up its own ass.[/QUOTE] Average wages in China have risen more than thirty-fold since 1980. There aren't people working for slave wages anymore, hasn't been for years. [QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;48405214]I wonder what ramifications this will have for long term China. Can you imagine what enormous unemployment this would eventually cause if it started replacing manned factories?[/QUOTE] Yeah, it'll cause just as much unemployment when people stopped working on farms in the 19th century.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;48405281]China would be blowing their own feet off. Because why not just buy the robot technology and import it to our own countries, might aswell regulate our own robot factories, save the transport fees, right? Like, what china has going for them is that they have people who will work for absolute slave-wages, take that away, level the playing field completely and their economy does an immelmann loop right up its own ass.[/QUOTE] Except for all the trade deals China already has

People in china have worked in slave conditions, which is different. The worker's movement was totally coopted by the state and the party, so any kind of complaint by them will end up being ignored. And nevermind strikes, you could get jailed or killed....

Speaking of robotic labor, I've always wondered what would happen if menial jobs and business labor was completely replaced by some sort of automated machine or process

[QUOTE=Kill001;48405564]Speaking of robotic labor, I've always wondered what would happen if menial jobs and business labor was completely replaced by some sort of automated machine or process[/QUOTE] Then we'd need more repairmen and engineers.

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lights_out_(manufacturing)"]Unmanned factories have existed for over a decade.[/URL] This factory isn't even unmanned. It says in the article that there are still 60 human workers.

are the robots made of plastic too

What's funny is these sort of robot factories basically mean that you don't have to put the factory in China, now raw material and energy cost dictate where the factories will be and much like data centers, it'll be wherever they could put up large solar or wind farms

Are the robots making more factory-working robots?

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;48405281]China would be blowing their own feet off. Because why not just buy the robot technology and import it to our own countries, might aswell regulate our own robot factories, save the transport fees, right? Like, what china has going for them is that they have people who will work for absolute slave-wages, take that away, level the playing field completely and their economy does an immelmann loop right up its own ass.[/QUOTE] It's not like the chinese government is thinking up and producing these.

Why even have robots? I don't have a problem with automated industry, but I don't think there are enough non robotic jobs for everyone. You don't live to work, but being productive for both you and your family is a purpose.

I think there are a couple of problems with this: - China still hasn't built a strong middle class that is/was the backbone of any strong economy. You see the middle class weakening in Europe and US in the last few decades and the trouble it causes. If they push the automation process too far, they will skip this part and always be a rich country with poor people. [b]And NO, new human jobs wont replace the old ones[/b], because all the new jobs are more specialized and need far less people. A million factory workers wont become a million VR developers, because only a couple of thousand are more than enough. - The second one is related to the first one; there is no way of fixing your demographic problems and aging population if you take away people's job opportunities.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;48406934]I think there are a couple of problems with this: - China still hasn't built a strong middle class that is/was the backbone of any strong economy. You see the middle class weakening in Europe and US in the last few decades and the trouble it causes. If they push the automation process too far, they will skip this part and always be a rich country with poor people. [B]And NO, new human jobs wont replace the old ones[/B], because all the new jobs are more specialized and need far less people. A million factory workers wont become a million VR developers, because only a couple of thousand are more than enough.[/quote] People use middle class like some sort of force on nature universal constant. The erosion of middle class in the west shows, if nothing else, that the current economic fucntioning simply doesn't harbor something like that. China is skipping creation of middle class because they are very rapidly adapting to the current socio-economical environment, it's a symptom, not cause of something horrid and scary. [quote] - The second one is related to the first one; there is no way of fixing your demographic problems and aging population if you take away people's job opportunities.[/QUOTE] This makes no sense. Their demographic problem is literally "We don't have enough people capable of productive work", you literally do fix it by filling the labour void with non-human workers, increasing the productivity per capita. The only remaining challenge is figuring out a stable and defensible way of re-allocating that productivity to people who are out of work, but that's again a global problem and China won't face it much harder than the rest of the world. [editline]8th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=cqbcat;48406608]Why even have robots? I don't have a problem with automated industry, but I don't think there are enough non robotic jobs for everyone. You don't live to work, but being productive for both you and your family is a purpose.[/QUOTE] "I don't have a problem with automated industry but I don't think the society will work with it." "You don't live to work but you do live to work" [editline]8th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;48405821]What's funny is these sort of robot factories basically mean that you don't have to put the factory in China, now raw material and energy cost dictate where the factories will be and much like data centers, it'll be wherever they could put up large solar or wind farms[/QUOTE] Which is ideal for everyone as the ecological and economical cost of hauling stuff around can be cut. China will also feel relief from carrying the hefty chunk of ecological burden they carry for the west through the production for us.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48406962]People use middle class like some sort of force on nature universal constant. The erosion of middle class in the west shows, if nothing else, that the current economic fucntioning simply doesn't harbor something like that. China is skipping creation of middle class because they are very rapidly adapting to the current socio-economical environment, it's a symptom, not cause of something horrid and scary. This makes no sense. Their demographic problem is literally "We don't have enough people capable of productive work", [b]you literally do fix it by filling the labour void with non-human workers, increasing the productivity per capita[/b]. The only remaining challenge is figuring out a stable and defensible way of re-allocating that productivity to people who are out of work, but that's again a global problem and China won't face it much harder than the rest of the world.[/QUOTE] The problem is we have past the era where we are increasing the productivity per capita using machines, and entered an era where the "per capita" part is being removed from the economic equation completely, and that IS horrid and scary.

[QUOTE=cqbcat;48406608]Why even have robots? I don't have a problem with automated industry, but I don't think there are enough non robotic jobs for everyone. You don't live to work, but being productive for both you and your family is a purpose.[/QUOTE] That's an interesting argument - you're calling for the artificial creation of jobs by limiting what jobs can be replaced by robots? You're also looking at it with a view to benefit society - companies don't generally work in the interests of society, they just do it because it's cheaper. My view on it is that it's a bit of a revolution, and that I don't think society will be able to keep up with the development of automation, and in future, AI. There will be a point where AI will replace not only menial jobs, but also jobs which require ingenuity and problem solving, which covers pretty much all jobs. At that point, unemployment would rise to new levels and I'm not sure how we'd deal with it. In the short term, menial jobs will be replaced by robots - it's simply inevitable.

If its Chinese manufactured robots they will need a whole factory process line to keep repairing the robots as they will break down so often.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;48407052]The problem is we have past the era where we are increasing the productivity per capita using machines, and entered an era where the "per capita" part is being removed from the economic equation completely, and that IS horrid and scary.[/QUOTE] Yes, I agree, it is. This is a problem with structure of the society though, and not with automation. We need to change the way resource redistribution works, not try to prevent progress in resource creation.

[QUOTE=Jonathan1321;48407458]If its Chinese manufactured robots they will need a whole factory process line to keep repairing the robots as they will break down so often.[/QUOTE] China has left 1980s long time ago.

If robots could make everyone get a nice sum at the end of the month, and individuals like the engineers a heftier sum, that'd be pretty cool. But that's obviously idealistic.

The whole point of robots is that you can earn more while paying to less people. Sure, it will create a few more engineering jobs, but it sure as hell won't give everyone who lost a job a new one.

automation isn't going to create unemployment because it hasn't done that for the past two centuries. remember that automating a factory means that a company can choose to either cut prices or increase investment. if they choose to cut prices, then consumers will have more money to spend on other goods and services, which will require a corresponding demand in labour. if the company chooses to increase investment, this means they will have to employ more people (either to build or maintain the machinery, work in quality control, etc).

I wonder if they have bossier robots underpaying the other robots.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48405350]China should be striving to become a leader in technology. Its population is expected to actually decline in the future.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile in india, the population is set to explode.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48408389]automation isn't going to create unemployment because it hasn't done that for the past two centuries. remember that automating a factory means that a company can choose to either cut prices or increase investment. if they choose to cut prices, then consumers will have more money to spend on other goods and services, which will require a corresponding demand in labour. if the company chooses to increase investment, this means they will have to employ more people (either to build or maintain the machinery, work in quality control, etc).[/QUOTE] Man you are absolutely right, and here I was thinking technology and automation has moved forward since 1815 and could cause problems today. Not to mention all the new opportunities millions of unemployed people in Spain, Greece and East Europe have now like making Youtube videos, smartphone apps or doing amateur porn.

Always relevant in these threads: [video=youtube;7Pq-S557XQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU[/video] In an undemocratic country like china it's far more feasible that some unique solutions that would never arise in the US will be tried. One possibility is they start overproducing food and resources using automation then overpay people for either menial jobs, or to undergo education and training to actually be useful compared to the new standard of automation. This is necessary because we're quickly approaching a point where unskilled labor is, if not worthless, far less efficient than an automated labor force, far below minimum wage, so overpayment is necessary for people to survive in an economy. It wouldn't be strange if they filled those ghost cities with a bunch of people who do ultimately very pointless things like cleaning the streets, far more than is necessary. The better solution that would fit in democratic countries is probably a universal basic income type system.