[QUOTE]Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the European Union, the High Court has ruled. This means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - beginning formal discussions with the EU - on their own. Theresa May says the referendum - and existing ministerial powers - mean MPs do not need to vote, but campaigners called this unconstitutional. The government is expected to appeal. Ministers were given the go-ahead for a further hearing to take place at the Supreme Court, which is expected to take place before the end of the year.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lord Cheif Justice]"The government does not have power under the Crown's prerogative to give notice pursuant to Article 50 for the UK to withdraw from the European Union."[/QUOTE]
Source:
[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785"]BBC NEWS[/URL]
[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-37820974"]BBC NEWS - Live Feed[/URL]
[URL="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/nov/03/article-50-high-court-ruling-high-court-set-to-rule-on-whether-mps-should-vote-on-triggering-article-50-politics-live"]The Guardian UK[/URL]
the pound is loving it
Art. 50 should have just been triggered by the dumbass referendum immediately. Why take baby-steps over the cliff when you could just throw yourself down on the jagged rocks like a fucking man?
[QUOTE=Riller;51300980]Art. 50 should have just been triggered by the dumbass referendum immediately. Why take baby-steps over the cliff when you could just throw yourself down on the jagged rocks like a fucking man?[/QUOTE]
You'd end up in Calais
[QUOTE=Riller;51300980]Art. 50 should have just been triggered by the dumbass referendum immediately. Why take baby-steps over the cliff when you could just throw yourself down on the jagged rocks like a fucking man?[/QUOTE]
First, governments have safety checks.
Second, UK's referendums are non-binding. Parliament can reject referendum results if it wants. In fact even if this parliament accept the referendum result and triggers Article 50, if on next elections Labour party wins party they are in full legal right to reject referendum result and pull back from article 50( although that would be a massive mess, for sure).
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51300993]First, governments have safety checks.
Second, UK's referendums are non-binding. Parliament can reject referendum results if it wants. In fact even if this parliament accept the referendum result and triggers Article 50, if on next elections Labour party wins party they are in full legal right to reject referendum result and pull back from article 50( although that would be a massive mess, for sure).[/QUOTE]
I wasn't being terribly serious, more just tryin' to make the point that Brexit is stupid bullshit and the rest of Yurop just want it fucking over with asap so we can get on with our lives without the UK dragging us down.
[QUOTE=Riller;51301005]I wasn't being terribly serious, more just tryin' to make the point that Brexit is stupid bullshit and the rest of Yurop just want it fucking over with asap so we can get on with our lives without the UK dragging us down.[/QUOTE]
And 30 million people in the UK don't want Brexit and would rather stall it and have chances to stop it from happening than ruining the economy and quality of life.
What's the chance of Article 50 passing parliament given the results were such a close race?
good to see we haven't completely thrown away parliamentary democracy in favour of THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwVGy38WgAAL7e8.jpg[/t]
That spike up.
Fine. But I expect the same to be applied if the Scottish ever vote for independence.
[QUOTE=David29;51301032]Fine. But I expect the same to be applied if the Scottish ever vote for independence.[/QUOTE]
Scottish parliament will overwhelmingly vote for independence anyway.
[QUOTE=Chains!;51301024]And 30 million people in the UK don't want Brexit and would rather stall it and have chances to stop it from happening than ruining the economy and quality of life.[/QUOTE]
I have full sympathy for you poor fuckers, but a decision has sadly been made, and the UK's continued participation in the EU is making everything shitty by still having UK votes on matters that the UK won't ever get to feel the effects of. They should be excluded from all voting and decision-making for the future of the EU.
[QUOTE=Chains!;51301024]And 30 million people in the UK don't want Brexit and would rather stall it and have chances to stop it from happening than ruining the economy and quality of life.[/QUOTE]
I can sympathise with that, but I sincerely doubt this will actually lead to article 50 not being triggered, and accordingly I think the UK should've triggered it immediately instead of dragging the process out. The government not acting on a democratic referendum would be... Ehh, not very popular, even if the voters' decision is dumb.
maybe this will help us recover from this fever dream of a year
[QUOTE=download;51301027]What's the chance of Article 50 passing parliament given the results were such a close race?[/QUOTE]
depends
if MPs voted against the motion to start article 50, it'd cause one of the greatest political clashes of our time, because parliament would have a) rejected a referendum result and b) said fuck you to the government on the subject of foreign policy
Well i guess i should exchange the rest of my pounds today
It's just the British courts taking back control from the bureaucracy of Brussels lads.
[editline]3rd November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51301065]depends
if MPs voted against the motion to start article 50, it'd cause one of the greatest political clashes of our time, because parliament would have a) rejected a referendum result and b) said fuck you to the government on the subject of foreign policy[/QUOTE]
If Parliament voted against Article 50 there'd be a General Election called, no doubt. But Parliament won't vote against Article 50. It's political suicide.
I can't realistically see Parliament acting as anything other than a rubber stamp for voting on Article 50. At least this will offer a platform for MPs to air their grievances and concerns.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51301046]I can sympathise with that, but I sincerely doubt this will actually lead to article 50 not being triggered, and accordingly I think the UK should've triggered it immediately instead of dragging the process out. The government not acting on a democratic referendum would be... Ehh, not very popular, even if the voters' decision is dumb.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if unpopular.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301083]If Parliament voted against Article 50 there'd be a General Election called, no doubt. But Parliament won't vote against Article 50. It's political suicide.[/QUOTE]
depends on the situation when the vote comes up
if the economic outlook is grimmer, then it's possible that parliament bites the bullet on the hope that the public wants stability
but it would be politically unheard of
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51301095]depends on the situation when the vote comes up
if the economic outlook is grimmer, then it's possible that parliament bites the bullet on the hope that the public wants stability[/QUOTE]
no, there is no way parliament is voting against article 50. ever. brexit means brexit. we'd look like an absolute joke on the world stage if we went back on it now.
plus, you know, 52% of the country would go into meltdown.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301100]no, there is no way parliament is voting against article 50. ever. brexit means brexit. we'd look like an absolute joke on the world stage if we went back on it now.
plus, you know, 52% of the country would go into meltdown.[/QUOTE]
your argument would make sense if we didn't already look like an absolute joke on the world stage
plus, you know, 48% of the country would go into a meltdown by your argument
Has any polls been done recently on how many people still support Brexit?
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51301109]your argument would make sense if we didn't already look like an absolute joke on the world stage
plus, you know, 48% of the country would go into a meltdown by your argument[/QUOTE]
?????
There is no argument to have. There was a referendum and the majority of the country voted to Leave the EU. What kind of democracy do you want to live in where something like that is just ignored?
This parliament debate is just for the terms of Brexit. IE, Hard or Soft Brexit, something that May has been very hush hush on, which is what everyone has been pissed off about. Brexit is happening no matter what.
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;51301090]Sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if unpopular.[/QUOTE]
The right thing in the long run isn't establishing the popular vote as meaningless. Sure, I can understand the frustration that uninformed voters were to a large part misled to vote leave, but people have to feel that they live in a democracy where their votes mean something. The alternative isn't workable in my opinion.
[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51301117]?????
There is no argument to have. There was a referendum and the majority of the country voted to Leave the EU. What kind of democracy do you want to live in where something like that is just ignored?
This parliament debate is just for the terms of Brexit. IE, Hard or Soft Brexit, something that May has been very hush hush on, which is what everyone has been pissed off about. Brexit is happening no matter what.[/QUOTE]
Referendums aren't legally binding in the United Kingdom but I agree it'd be short term political suicide in Britain if parliament voted to leave the EU, and would certainly piss Europe off to no end.
What's the process for creating a referendum? If they government went along with it and did it they should keep their word, even if it's shitty.
I think they'll wind up doing it but not really. Either they initiate it but never complete it which would be weird but not really unheard of in government. Or what I think is most likely, they negotiate a weird deal or they join the european economic area like norway.
Fully jumping out of the EU would be batshit insane, and I'm pretty sure the politicians know that.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51301118]The right thing in the long run isn't establishing the popular vote as meaningless. Sure, I can understand the frustration that uninformed voters were to a large part misled to vote leave, but people have to feel that they live in a democracy where their votes mean something. The alternative isn't workable in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
That would be true if we were a direct democracy, but like most countries, we're a representative democracy. Legislation is voted on by Parliament all the time without direct influence of the people, so I wouldn't give too much weight to the vote of the individual. Particularly in this case where referendums are non-binding and strictly advisory.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51301118]The right thing in the long run isn't establishing the popular vote as meaningless. Sure, I can understand the frustration that uninformed voters were to a large part misled to vote leave, but people have to feel that they live in a democracy where their votes mean something. The alternative isn't workable in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
If you put a 90% tax cut to referendum people would vote for that too.
Why should British citizens have to suffer the consequences of politicians being stupid enough to put something as important as this to direct democracy? Whole thing was aimed at building support for the tory party, least MPs can do is salvage their retarded stunt.
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