Nick Clegg backs report on legalising cannabis - "the war on drugs is a costly failure" - Polidicks

Nick Clegg has backed a report which suggests that governments should consider the legalisation of cannabis. The Deputy Prime Minister has signed a foreword to the study which backs a programme of ‘rigorously monitored’ regulation of illegal drugs. [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2621044/Legalise-cannabis-says-report-backed-Clegg-Deputy-PM-endorses-paper-condemns-war-drugs-costly-failure-recommends-smarter-laws.html[/url] Trying to win back the young voters?

[QUOTE=matt.ant;44736095] Trying to win back the young voters?[/QUOTE] Probably. I recall them saying exactly the same thing in the run up to the last GE (Hell, I think David Cameron was saying similar things whilst admitting to having used it when he was younger)

Not gonna save you Nick

Safe bet that this is pandering.

Yes please

If you're gonna legalize one thing, might as well legalize it all.

[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;44736247]If you're gonna legalize one thing, might as well legalize it all.[/QUOTE] Yes, let people do PCP and shoot themselves up with heroin.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736252]Yes, let people do PCP and shoot themselves up with heroin.[/QUOTE] But PCP's neurotoxicity is debatable because Olney's lesions only occur with extremely high doses of NMDA receptor antagonists, and diacetylmorphine (heroin) isn't toxic in any way at all. It's even used in hospitals in the UK under the name diamorphine.

I wasn't talking about toxicity, heroin ruins lives and did you not see the news stories where people on PCP attacked random people and bit them like zombies

not to mention crocodil

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736252]Yes, let people do PCP and shoot themselves up with heroin.[/QUOTE] Why should we draw the line between alcohol, which is actually stupidly dangerous and other shit like PCP which isn't actually likely to kill someone or lead to any injuries since you know, most folk who do PCP don't end up in a battle royale with the local emergency services as he attempts to flip 15 cars. [editline]6th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736284]I wasn't talking about toxicity, heroin ruins lives and did you not see the news stories where people on PCP attacked random people and bit them like zombies[/QUOTE] Yeah all 15 times that happened.

[QUOTE=murple;44736304]not to mention crocodil[/QUOTE] Desomorphine, the active ingredient in krokodil, isn't toxic in any way either. It's the petrol that's left from manufacture that causes the skin to deteriorate. [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736284]I wasn't talking about toxicity, heroin ruins lives and did you not see the news stories where people on PCP attacked random people and bit them like zombies[/QUOTE] That all depends on the user. I've used heroin before and haven't turned into a monster of an addict. It's possible to use heroin and still be responsible.

[QUOTE=bravehat;44736308]Why should we draw the line between alcohol, which is actually stupidly dangerous and other shit like PCP which isn't actually likely to kill someone or lead to any injuries since you know, most folk who do PCP don't end up in a battle royale with the local emergency services as he attempts to flip 15 cars.[/QUOTE] A dangerous substance being legal is not an argument for making other dangerous substances legal. The whole ''PCP WILL TURN YOU INTO A ZOMBIE'' stuff is exaggerated but it's not candy either, we have no idea what the long term effects of PCP use are.

[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;44736330] It's possible to use heroin and still be responsible.[/QUOTE] :downs:

Politicians will say anything to get the vote. At least UKIP has kept the same core goals all the way through the last few years.

[QUOTE=ThaBoss;44736349]A dangerous substance being legal is not an argument for making other dangerous substances legal. The whole ''PCP WILL TURN YOU INTO A ZOMBIE'' stuff is exaggerated but it's not candy either, we have no idea what the long term effects of PCP use are.[/QUOTE] Actually, PCP has been extensively studied and it presents the same long term risks of use as ketamine and DXM, which are usually reversible. Used responsibly, PCP can be just as safe to use as any other drug.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736284]I wasn't talking about toxicity, heroin ruins lives and did you not see the news stories where people on PCP attacked random people and bit them like zombies[/QUOTE] A lot of things can ruin your life if you don't watch out, and a lot of that stuff is completely legal. And guess what. The illegal status is oftentimes not caused by the dangerousness, but actually reason for the danger. One of the biggest dangers with illegal drugs are inpure laced variants. Another issue is extortiating black market price of drugs and the necessity of dealing with by definition shady people (dealers). Furthermore, reasonable research and education work far better than "NOT EVEN ONCE", and caring and vested society works better than writing off every junkie as an irredeemably lost illegal individual (which is part of why lot of these cases end tragically, the drug itself often does less physical damage as much as social, and that's something we can fix).

[QUOTE=Killergam;44736387]Politicians will say anything to get the vote. At least UKIP has kept the same core goals all the way through the last few years.[/QUOTE] That's because UKIP is pandering to the racists/bigots of the uk.

[QUOTE=FurrehFaux;44736330]Desomorphine, the active ingredient in krokodil, isn't toxic in any way either. It's the petrol that's left from manufacture that causes the skin to deteriorate.[/QUOTE] I don't think you know what toxicity means, all substances have a degree of toxicity it's just the amount required to kill you that determines how toxic it is. Considering how easy it is to OD on morphine/heroin its safe to say they are quite toxic substances. [QUOTE=FurrehFaux;44736391]Actually, PCP has been extensively studied and it presents the same long term risks of use as ketamine and DXM, which are usually reversible. Used responsibly, PCP can be just as safe to use as any other drug.[/QUOTE] We only know long term psychological effects (which aren't particularly nice), there has been no study afaik about long term physiological effects. [editline]6th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44736406]A lot of things can ruin your life if you don't watch out, and a lot of that stuff is completely legal. And guess what. The illegal status is oftentimes not caused by the dangerousness, but actually reason for the danger. One of the biggest dangers with illegal drugs are inpure laced variants. Another issue is extortiating black market price of drugs and the necessity of dealing with by definition shady people (dealers). Furthermore, reasonable research and education work far better than "NOT EVEN ONCE", and caring and vested society works better than writing off every junkie as an irredeemably lost illegal individual (which is part of why lot of these cases end tragically, the drug itself often does less physical damage as much as social, and that's something we can fix).[/QUOTE] It's true that a lot of damage is caused by all the random crap in street drugs and the re-using of needles which is why various countries have programs(mainly for heroin addicts) where they go to a clinic for clean drugs/needles while the clinic personnel will try to help them in various ways. But the fundamental danger of these substances is how uncontrollably addictive they are, this + the tolerance someone builds up means long term users have to inject such quantities that even if the drug was pure it will still cause serious damage.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736284]heroin ruins lives[/QUOTE] so does alcohol? i'm not for the legalisation of all substances but i do think all drugs should be decriminalised - any attempt to enforce the reverse has been a colossally expensive failure

Legalize Cannabis and ban e-cigs, what on earth is going on with them make up your minds plus Labour should jump on this band wagon of legalizing cannabis because they will get back in with a lot more happier voters

Decriminalise all drugs, and allow business's to sell cannabis, MDMA, shrooms, LSD and another psychedelics with good regulation and monitoring similar to the food industry.

[QUOTE=Complifused;44736379]:downs:[/QUOTE] What was the point of this post? To try and shame him? If so you failed in my eyes. I would have preferred an actual post.

[QUOTE=Killergam;44736387]Politicians will say anything to get the vote. At least UKIP has kept the same core goals all the way through the last few years.[/QUOTE] Clegg has supported drugs law reform for a while; he [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20720122]called for a review of drugs law[/url] in 2012 and [url=http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/10/nick-clegg-drug-laws]said Cameron was a nob[/url] in 2013 for not being interested

[QUOTE=smurfy;44737045]Clegg has supported drugs law reform for quite a while; he [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20720122"]called for a review of drugs law[/URL] in 2012 and [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/10/nick-clegg-drug-laws"]said Cameron was a nob[/URL] in 2013 for not being interested[/QUOTE] That provides some helpful insight. Interested to see how far the process of legalization will go in the U.K

I still don't honestly trust him, he has turned his back on a few policies.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736284]I wasn't talking about toxicity, heroin ruins lives and did you not see the news stories where people on PCP attacked random people and bit them like zombies[/QUOTE] The argument is that with proper regulation and education, less people would start, and with better quality product and better support services less people will be physically harmed or become addicted. Everytime a thread like this comes up some dipshit will either make a DARE inspired statement or an educated member of the drug community will start a shitstorm to do with the legalisation of drugs. It always ends the same too. You people throw around scary drug words like "Heroin", "PCP" and "Krokodil", and yet i bet that none of them can tell me what class of drugs they're in, what position they are in on the dependence/harm scale, what family of drugs they belong to, how they work, how they're taken, their effects and more. Of course i'm not saying that every drug user knows this. However, i know for a fact that for many of the people of DD and other sensible drug communities around the net (420 chan, /r/drugs, bluelight.ru etc.) actually fucking research what they're putting into their bodies. Their dose, their dangers, what to do to avoid a bad trip, getting a trip sitter, the tiny intricacies of each drug that make them unique. LSD and NBOMe for example, are two similar acting drugs, but completely different in most areas. The people who don't listen, who ignore good usage practices. They're the ones who get addicted, die, get injured. I know some people who took a heroic dose of shrooms their first time, freaked out and decided that a good old glass of drano would be an excellent way to end the universe. They didn't end up drinking the drano, but they discussed at lengths committing suicide and how it was a pretty good idea. Does this mean i never want to do shrooms? Does it mean i want to keep my friends away from it? Fuck no. Those guys were being dumb about a drug. They took a stupid fucking risk and got lucky. But for the people who don't, and for those who kill themselves out of will full ignorance, i have no sympathy. [editline]7th May 2014[/editline] Read this through before replying. The experiments results were originally suppressed by the Nixon goverment because it didn't fit with the party line that if you smoke a blunt you're a lifelong addict. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park[/url] After reading it, surprise surprise, adult rats living in a stable environment and not using morphine as a method of escapism didn't become addicted to it, even though they had been made to be addicted earlier.

[QUOTE=Complifused;44736379]:downs:[/QUOTE] Only around 20-30% of people who ever try heroin end up as addicts, and a significant number of those who do were already addicted to prescription opiates, moving to heroin simply because it's more cost-effective. It's also not neurotoxic as far as we know, same as pretty much all other opiates. It's still horribly addictive and has the potential to ruin lives, but so does alcohol. 10-15% of people who try alcohol at some point end up addicted. PCP is extremely overrated in terms of how dangerous it is. The news reports on it are legendary examples of how the media can turn a low number of isolated cases (mostly involving drug psychosis and not by definition related to the main effects of PCP itself) and making it seem like the United States is experiencing a fucking epidemic. It's not particularly addictive either, being a dissociative, although addiction is definitely possible given regular use. Hell, even methamphetamine isn't as bad as it's made out to be. I've used it, on more than one occasion, both as a recreational experiment and as a study aid (rare occasions). It should be noted that methamphetamine is still available in the US on prescription, as treatment in severe cases of ADD/ADHD and going under the name Desoxyn, although this is not where I got mine from. Point being, I'm not an addict, and neither are the majority of people who have tried meth. The evidence is pointing towards meth being particularly neurotoxic, although this is less true in small doses and when sleep isn't lost, which is where I keep myself. Regardless, it is a risk I am taking in full understanding of the issue (just as when I consume alcohol, also neurotoxic in addition to causing several types of cancer and liver issues) and I would argue that if you were to deny me the ability to do so, you would be acting unjustly. Consuming a drug is an act I commit on my own body and my own body alone, and I think the notion that you or anyone else should be the ones to decide what I do to my own body is ridiculous. While it is true that many who consume these drugs go on to cause problems that affect others, this is not true for all of us and hence a ban that affects all of us is nothing less than unfair. Again, alcoholics also cause these same problems; the only reason THEIR drug is not banned is due its fairly old connection to western culture, not because it is safer than every illegal drug. It's a completely random and unscientific distinction and it has no place in the 21st century; our laws should be based on science, not arbitrary moralistic values. What a rant.. I'll conclude with a final, interesting note (not an argument, just an observation I've made) Unlike alcoholics, heroin and meth addicts are often able to function just fine in their workplace (given that they're getting their fix), as their drugs of choice don't incapacitate them in the way alcohol does. Again, not an argument, just an observation.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44736252]Yes, let people do PCP and shoot themselves up with heroin.[/QUOTE] It would bring great entertainment value to the streets, that's for sure [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwIRoxI2mlM[/media]

Do you guys really think people would use PCP and Krokodil if everything became legal/decriminalized? (Of course, there's always someone, but that's besides the point.) A lot of the problems regarding drugs are a result of prohibition.