A new (and pretty rad) video by my main nigga Instig8ive. He brings up some cool points that I'd never thought about before, especially with the player being the director.
[video=youtube;uL7u8uFwa8I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL7u8uFwa8I[/video]
"It doesn't mean we won't one day get to play a game that also has cutscenes that rival Laurence of Arabia in length and quality."
But is that something games should strive for?
We tend to forget, but the one thing that separates video games from literature, music, and film is interactivity. If you go for cutscenes in the scope of Laurence of Arabia you're undermining the medium's potential. It's why open world RPGs/sandbox games are so popular.
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;40528373]"It doesn't mean we won't one day get to play a game that also has cutscenes that rival Laurence of Arabia in length and quality."
But is that something games should strive for?
We tend to forget, but the one thing that separates video games from literature, music, and film is interactivity. If you go for cutscenes in the scope of Laurence of Arabia you're undermining the medium's potential. It's why open world RPGs/sandbox games are so popular.[/QUOTE]
I say its something we should definitely strive for. Both genres of games can co-exist, so why not have games that can be as great or better cinematic experiences than movies, while other more interactive games can continue being what their strengths are?
Certainly, but the problem is balance. Cutscene/gameplay ratio. MGS1 probably has the best cutscene/gameplay ratio ever. I know I'm bringing it up again, but that's quite a statement to say a game could have cutscenes that rival LoA.
If you were to have such a cutscene, you risk the possibility that the player would go "gee I wish I could actually participate in this cutscene" or "I wish my character was capable of that during gameplay." Besides the length, this is one of the greater flaws of MGS4's cutscenes. Snake would perform all these cool CQC shit and you're left wondering what you can't do that in game.
The way I see it, cinematic-heavy games and gameplay-focused games can co-exist, but a distinction needs to be made. What worries me is that publishers and developers might not recognize that distinction and we'll end up with less gameplay and more movie-like "games".
Yeah like he said in the end himself, the video could've benefitted for not arguing semantics for that long.
I think of cinematics as a [b]crutch[/b]. A very versatile crutch in many ways, but always a crutch.
Pre-rendered cutscenes used to be used frequently until home PCs developed the awesome [b]rendering power[/b] many of us have at our disposal today. So we mostly don't need that crutch anymore.
Cutscenes are also useful for [b]relaying information[/b] to the player from places he couldn't visit by himself at that moment. This change of perspective isn't a big deal in cinematography where the audience always has a certain distance from the experience, but in games there's a very distinct difference between being in control and not being in control.
Tho they are a crutch, if they aren't too many they usually don't disturb the game flow too much and can even provide clear cuts to let the tension curve roll out.
The last crutch derived from cinematography has to do with age. Video games are young and not yet as accepted as other media as an art form. [b]Game designers don't have the same amount of history or education to draw skills from as film makers.[/b] Throwing "cinematic!" into the description creates a link to medium more widely known as mature (or at least as a source of mature content as well as juvenile one).
On the other hand it also means that directing cinematics (or the next best thing, railroads) is much easier than directing a game experience with the degree of player agency and interactivity expected. As anyone who has every heard of someone playing a tabletop roleplaying game: Your game master can come up with the best story ever and the players will do everything but what he wants/expected them to do, they'll say all the wrong things, overlook the most obvious clues, and in general take apart everything they can.
To make things better, in videogames it's generally regarded as highly positive to make the player able to experience these [b]organic or emergent moments[/b] that are either completely undirected or at best directed through the shadows by the developers. Valve for example loves the latter technique where they'll strap entire Christmas trees around a neon sign telling you where to go next, but they'll refuse to write out your objective in a pop up and add it to your log or something.
It's also notable that the [b]AAA industry[/b] has the money to hire a lot of experiences people with filmmaking background. If you gather enough together and they agree on a lot of cinematic techniques while being more careful when it comes to interactivity, you'll easily end up with a game where the story's essentially told in cutscenes and the gameplay is thrown in when you need a change of location to reach the next cutscene.
There's always [b]hybrids[/b] in media, like books using pictures for example, but I don't know if cinematics in games will turn out to be crutches or viable hybrids. I mean, aside from a few classics like Star Wars, barely anyone would dare let some text scroll over the movie in certain intervals because they drag you out of the experience and don't follow the same design philosophy as the rest of the content. It doesn't even matter how long they are, even just a brief "Susan was very sad" would be flagged as a violation of "show, don't tell".
Maybe cinematics will take a similar place in gaming and eventually be almost completely abandoned. Or maybe they're here to stay for the most part.
Personally what I feel to be a cinematic game is a game that flows smoothly between gameplay and cutscene and not make the stuff that are the workings of the game stand out like loading.
The one game that stands out like that for me is Max Payne 3. I really love the way that it seamlessly goes from cinematic to gameplay, and then the loading is hidden with cinematics too. It really helps to keep me in the games world and not just realise that I'm playing yet another game.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71368030/Reactions/sawthat.png[/img]
What's this for?
You can't use moviegame, moviegames are games about movies that are coming out at the same time
you know, the ones that are 100% shit guaranteed
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;40529876]You can't use moviegame, moviegames are games about movies that are coming out at the same time
you know, the ones that are 100% shit guaranteed[/QUOTE]
What about Spider Man 2?
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;40529876]You can't use moviegame, moviegames are games about movies that are coming out at the same time
you know, the ones that are 100% shit guaranteed[/QUOTE]
I thought the term was licensed game?
[QUOTE=Yogkog;40528481]I say its something we should definitely strive for. Both genres of games can co-exist, so why not have games that can be as great or better cinematic experiences than movies, while other more interactive games can continue being what their strengths are?[/QUOTE]
So basically an interactive movie, and not a game per se
[QUOTE=Crash15;40529548][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71368030/Reactions/sawthat.png[/img]
What's this for?[/QUOTE]
Old joke.
p3s has no gaems. etc.
When the first PS3 bundle was released, it came with a Blu-ray of Talladega Nights, not an actual game.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;40530090]What about Spider Man 2?[/QUOTE]
It was [I]OK[/I], and also like 10 years ago
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;40529030]The way I see it, cinematic-heavy games and gameplay-focused games can co-exist, but a distinction needs to be made. What worries me is that publishers and developers might not recognize that distinction and we'll end up with less gameplay and more movie-like "games".[/QUOTE]
Go play xenosaga, i rented that game. A friend came over expecting to play it, hell no. The first cut scene was like fucking 3 hours. Half the game was cut-scenes.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;40529876]You can't use moviegame, moviegames are games about movies that are coming out at the same time
you know, the ones that are 100% shit guaranteed[/QUOTE]
King Kong was pretty good.
[QUOTE=MR-X;40535667]Go play xenosaga, i rented that game. A friend came over expecting to play it, hell no. The first cut scene was like fucking 3 hours. Half the game was cut-scenes.[/QUOTE]
Xenosaga is Xenogears' ADD riddled half retarded physically deformed brother.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95mwIi8lVHQ[/media]
very few things should be judged based on xenosaga
i liked this video. one thing i felt it kind of overlooked massively though is elements in the mgs games that are both cinematic but also part of the gameplay, but also use the medium of video game like no other game i've played
what i'm getting at is this guy kinda downplays kojima almost as if he's in the wrong industry - something that miyamoto is also getting at. this isn't true. at times, kojima has used player input - the thing that separates video games from films - in incredible ways
i'm mainly thinking of the torture scenes from the various games. those sections are genius in that they put the player through some actual physical pain/effort themselves to make them connect with the protagonist on some level that films and other mediums simply can't. the mgs4 microwave corridor scene is his biggest triumph to this end and he's the only person i can think of who has ever exploited this properly
I want to play MGS4 again now.
CINEMATIC STEALTH ESPIONAGE ACTION COMEDY DRAMA.
He mentioned Uncharted 2 at the beginning and I'm surprised he didn't bring it up again. The use of "setpieces" in games are a great way of keeping the game cinematic while keeping the player in control. When something happens like a train starts to fall off a cliff or a bridge collapses, there's only one real obvious thing for the player to do, so the camera and lighting choices can be chosen carefully. Uncharted 3 is a great example of cinematic combat at the beginning, and it never feels like a quick-time event.
I really hope he makes a sequel to this video.
[QUOTE=DuCT;40531094]Old joke.
p3s has no gaems. etc.
When the first PS3 bundle was released, it came with a Blu-ray of Talladega Nights, not an actual game.[/QUOTE]
"how to use camera"
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40537258]i liked this video. one thing i felt it kind of overlooked massively though is elements in the mgs games that are both cinematic but also part of the gameplay, but also use the medium of video game like no other game i've played
what i'm getting at is this guy kinda downplays kojima almost as if he's in the wrong industry - something that miyamoto is also getting at. this isn't true. at times, kojima has used player input - the thing that separates video games from films - in incredible ways
i'm mainly thinking of the torture scenes from the various games. those sections are genius in that they put the player through some actual physical pain/effort themselves to make them connect with the protagonist on some level that films and other mediums simply can't. the mgs4 microwave corridor scene is his biggest triumph to this end and he's the only person i can think of who has ever exploited this properly[/QUOTE]
i think he's referring more to things like big mama's solid half hour of exposition
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