[video=youtube;C9pwfjrRAIk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9pwfjrRAIk[/video]
Changed the title because it's misleading as f*ck.
Landis summed it up way better
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlwDbSYicM[/media]
[QUOTE=spekter;48710854]Landis summed it up way better
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PlwDbSYicM[/media][/QUOTE]
He's got a pretty good point. Characters dying in comics really don't have an impact anymore, since 90% of the time they come back in another series.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48711099]He's got a pretty good point. Characters dying in comics really don't have an impact anymore, since 90% of the time they come back in another series.[/QUOTE]
In all honesty, the colossal fuck up of those events still doesn't register with some people. There's plenty of reasons to dislike Superman but this is by far the biggest. I think the only incarnation of him worth seeing was in Flashpoint Paradox.
It didn't even stop at comics roughly every kind of media nowadays is eager to kill someone off just to "bring them back" in some fashion.
superman is a huge mary sue and is boring as superheroes come.
Super man is the original super hero, which is why he's so OP
he was made by a kid in the 1930's
Wow I don't think I've seen anything from or by Cracked in over a year. The Max Landis video is great though, I love that.
They need to change super man a bit to add an edge to him make him a angel alien that really likes humans but isn't good or ethical.
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;48714534]They need to change super man a bit to add an edge to him make him a angel alien that really likes humans but isn't good or ethical.[/QUOTE]
What? The main tenants of Superman is that he's essentially everything a regular man isn't. He's supposed to be the best person possible. He has all the best super powers NOT because he's a boring character, he has all the best super powers because he uses them differently. Superman could EASILY kill ANYONE that tries to fight him, but he doesn't. Why? Because he's above vengeance, he always forgives, he always gives his enemies another chance, he always holds back whenever possible. He's a person above any human being and that's why Lex Luthor hates the SHIT out of him, he's so humble about his powers Lex Luthor tries to beat the unbeatable because he sees him as a Mary Sue. Superman always tries to do the right thing over the easy thing, he always makes a point to change his foes. He even often does things that most humans don't agree with, this can be most easily seen in "Superman Vs. The Elite" give it a watch if you want to see Superman go through a serious character arc.
I feel like most people blindly hate Superman because of what others say, rather than delving into what makes him tick. He's the embodiment of everything a human being can't be, he's perfect in mind, body, and spirit. That's what I love about him, that he's still a great human being despite being able to crush/rule/kill everything on Earth. He's a beacon of light in the darkness that is my life, a constant reminder that hope exists somewhere.
If anything the worst thing about Superman (aside from the fact that he killed death in comics and possibly most media) is that he doesn't have a big enough impact on the world he inhabits. He should be worshipped as a god in his universe, he should have people literally praying to Superman for help, there should be religious and political strife simply down to Superman's existence. Instead he has people just be happy that he's around and other super heroes look to him as the guy to solve the problems he can't.
The most interesting thing about the new Superman vs Batman film to me is that the forces working 'for' Superman appear to actually worship him.
superman isn't great but edged-up pandering superman is a billion times worse
superman is bad because few people know how to write interesting superman
When people bring up Superman as a Mary Sue, a lot of the times when I'm discussing it, people ask "Well what about a character like Godzilla? Godzilla's just as Mary Sue as Superman, if not more."
And I think it comes down to something like scale, quite literally.
Yes, Godzilla has tanked nuclear weapons, swam around in Lava, was transported to-and-back to space and even walked off a point-blank blast of Absolute Zero. Hell, even when Godzilla was to fall, his nuclear meltdown (if not handled properly) would basically suck the [I]entire solar system into a fucking [B]black hole[/B][/I]. But here's the thing with something like Godzilla: He's big, and he's also [I]not always the good guy.[/I] And that makes a serious difference. If you think about it, Godzilla's size and wanton destruction, plus his habits of being a malevolent god-figure make his abilities and lack of weakness more....believable, I guess? Like when Godzilla's just whomped a couple baddy Kaiju in the middle of Osaka, the city's been essentially leveled and [I]thousands[/I] have been killed by the time Godzilla brushes the rubble off of his shoulders and waddles out to the ocean.
Contrast that with Superman. He's a lot smaller, and his enemies tend not to be on-par with him in terms of abilities (outside of Darkseid/Doomsday, etc.), and if he destroys the city (Man of Steel), more people see him as a threat rather than a savior. Also, Superman is bound to the moralities of humanity and modern society, which means his use of superpowers must [I]always[/I] be for good, and any negativity on the side of Superman is immediately met with backlash/criticism, because he represents everything positive about truth, justice and the American way. Also, for the most part, Superman protects Metropolis and surrounding cities, and occasionally heads to other parts of the US or the world, but only when the Justice League calls on him or things have really gone sour. Godzilla, on the other hand, battles Kaiju around the globe, while also laying waste to most cities.
I think that when it comes to Mary Sue-ness of characters, Godzilla gets the pass because most of the time he's still considered a threat, and everyday people think of ways to defeat him, while Superman is held up to the standard of a pure-of-heart Demigod.
[editline]aaaaaa[/editline]
Sorry if this seems totally irrelevant, but I've had this discussion a lot with people. When it comes to Mary Sue/Overpowered as hell characters, it depends on their scale and their resounding impact on the world around them.
Say what you will, Superman is great because of this kind of stuff. Seriously this is a great film, trust me before I saw this I was in the "Superman sucks" camp but then I realized it's really not who he is, it's what he does that makes Superman a great character. Yeah, Superman does the the crap beat out of him in the movie so if you're into that go ahead. Also, hey look it's Robin Atkin Downes as Manchester Black. He's helped me dial back my cynicism when it comes to my mother's illness and the tasks I must perform to make sure she sees another day. Yeah it's stupid, unrealistic, and overly dramatic, but seriously when I need a little motivation to be a better person I idealize Supes.
[video=youtube;aGtiinR6ni8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGtiinR6ni8[/video]
Then there's the part right before this.
[video=youtube;aKm5otkR2mc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKm5otkR2mc[/video]
My only issue with Superman, most of the time modern Superman, is that it's become very difficult to write a Superman story that fits with what you could call "current popular themes".
Superman just [I]doesn't[/I] work as dark and gloomy. It works in some of the animated films (which are fantastic, btw), but only because he is about to get his ass whooped and it all hinges on him and a crack team of superheroes to save the entire goddamn world.
Supermans main role as a character now, as I see it, is that he's best used as a "switch up". We all know exactly what he's like and what his character is like. Using an alternate history or reality really brings superman into the forefront.
Flashpoint, Injustice, A few other examples I can't name, but they all give him contrast that adds to the world
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48715449]My only issue with Superman, most of the time modern Superman, is that it's become very difficult to write a Superman story that fits with what you could call "current popular themes".
Superman just [I]doesn't[/I] work as dark and gloomy. It works in some of the animated films (which are fantastic, btw), but only because he is about to get his ass whooped and it all hinges on him and a crack team of superheroes to save the entire goddamn world.[/QUOTE]
I think the only time I've ever liked dark and gloomy was in the Dark Knight Returns series, but that's mainly because the logical end of Superman's entire shtick is [B]America[/B] and he actually bows down to it.
but what if
superman was [I]bad?[/I]
[QUOTE=General J;48715562]but what if
superman was [I]bad?[/I][/QUOTE]
That's pretty much the premise of the Dark Knight Rises.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48715565]That's pretty much the premise of the Dark Knight Rises.[/QUOTE]
(you mean returns, right)
TDKR superman isn't bad so much as naive. the things he does are questionable but not wrong by his own moral code
While it is true that comic book deaths have lost impact, there is one that still reigns in the shock, the sadness, and unpredictability after 2 years since then IMO: [sp]Bumblebee.[/sp] Not only was he denied the first time to die, but when a big comic event that "raised the stakes" years later happened, the license holders to the character gave the comic guys the 'okay' to axe him off permanently when the time was right. Unlike Superman, it's confirmed from the writers that he really isn't coming back.[sp]After being shot in the chest by Infinity Shockwave with a big gaping wound and being sucked into a mini black hole it'd be a miracle if he's still salvageable.[/sp] He's making too much money off of [sp]Transformers: Age of Extinction from the toys and the film version[/sp]anyway that [sp]Hasbro[/sp] doesn't care for the comic book version, whose an entirely different character by just having the ability to [sp]speak since 1984[/sp].
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;48715709](you mean returns, right)
TDKR superman isn't bad so much as naive. the things he does are questionable but not wrong by his own moral code[/QUOTE]
Yes I did.
And that's kinda the point, he's naive which someone like Superman whose so optimistic would be.
[QUOTE=The DooD;48714486]Wow I don't think I've seen anything from or by Cracked in over a year. The Max Landis video is great though, I love that.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean? If it's their Youtube channel, they're still posting stuff there frequently. Same goes with their website.
[QUOTE=strawberryowl;48716061]What do you mean? If it's their Youtube channel, they're still posting stuff there frequently. Same goes with their website.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but a lot of people have been starting to dislike Cracked in the past year or so because the writers have been doing less "funny but true" listicles and more politcal soapboxing disguised as "funny but true" listicles.
But back on topic, I used to dislike Superman, too, but my opinion of him changed a lot when I saw the DCAU incarnation of him. He was pretty well-written and was most definitely not a Mary Sue (it kinda helped that most of his opponents either had access to Kryptonite or were pretty much Gods. It also helped that a running theme in his series and the Justice League show was how the world viewed super-beings like him living among them.). To be fair, though, I had never actually experienced any actual Superman media beforehand. I got into the DCAU because of Batman.
[QUOTE=General J;48715562]but what if
superman was [I]bad?[/I][/QUOTE]
Sounds like the Injustice series is right up your alley.
Superman is like my biggest guilty pleasure. I fucking love me some good Superman
Superman is an incredibly good character, but actually getting him to not come across as shit and boring is something that needs to be handled with extreme care. Anybody who says he's boring or a mary sue or whatever have not read a good Superman book.
If you want a good Superman story I implore you to read Superman: Red Son
It's an elseworld tale that has Superman crash land in soviet Russia, not rural America. Superman is still kept to the same morals and values and all that truth and justice stuff, but the way the book twists his morals is fucking incredible. Also it should be said the book goes in a VERY different direction then what you think it would given it's premise, though saying any more than that would get into spoiler territory.
Superman: Red Son is up there with Abnett and Lanning's Guardians of the Galaxy for me (it takes a lot for me to say that, look at my fucking title)
[editline]19th September 2015[/editline]
Alternatively listen to this
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RWMc-EdDRY[/media]
I know Landis isn't the best, but holy fucking christ this is a good Superman story
"Man, Superman is such a Mary Sue and OP guy! Not like Batman, who [I]never loses any battle no matter how fucking impossible it'd be for him to win[/I] and [I]is a super smart detective who always knows how to get out of every situation[/I] and [I]can beat anyone with enough time to prepare.[/I]"
And to anyone who says Superman can't work within a modern context, two words: Captain America. Here's a character who's a """Mary Sue""" with """OP""" powers and what do the writers do when updating him? Nothing. He's still a good guy at heart. And the fun comes from seeing him upholding his morals and still being a good guy.
At least when Captain America does something he wouldn't normally do, you understand the process that led to this choice, you understand that [I]this is the last thing he'd want to do[/I]. When Superman killed Zod in Man of Steel, it just felt like Snyder and Goyer going "oh yeah, we're so edgy!"
[QUOTE=Zuimzado;48718501]"Man, Superman is such a Mary Sue and OP guy! Not like Batman, who [I]never loses any battle no matter how fucking impossible it'd be for him to win[/I] and [I]is a super smart detective who always knows how to get out of every situation[/I] and [I]can beat anyone with enough time to prepare.[/I]"
And to anyone who says Superman can't work within a modern context, two words: Captain America. Here's a character who's a """Mary Sue""" with """OP""" powers and what do the writers do when updating him? Nothing. He's still a good guy at heart. And the fun comes from seeing him upholding his morals and still being a good guy.
At least when Captain America does something he wouldn't normally do, you understand the process that led to this choice, you understand that [I]this is the last thing he'd want to do[/I]. When Superman killed Zod in Man of Steel, it just felt like Snyder and Goyer going "oh yeah, we're so edgy!"[/QUOTE]
Captain America is not like superman at all.
Captain America is special because compared to everyone else in the cast he is completely lackluster, he can only lift around 1 tonne. Despite that, he has the determination and will to lead the baddest team of super heroes and even go toe-to-toe with demi-gods; and win.
[QUOTE=Zuimzado;48718501]"Man, Superman is such a Mary Sue and OP guy! Not like Batman, who [I]never loses any battle no matter how fucking impossible it'd be for him to win[/I] and [I]is a super smart detective who always knows how to get out of every situation[/I] and [I]can beat anyone with enough time to prepare.[/I]"[/QUOTE]
nobody is saying Batman isn't boring as hell either
and Captain America hahaha he's worse than Batman but not as bad as Superman
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