Labour MP blames anti-smacking law for London riots
138 replies, posted
[B]Legislation governing the smacking of children needs to be relaxed so working-class parents can instil discipline in their homes without fear of prosecution, a senior Labour politician has said.[/B]
The Tottenham MP David Lammy claimed that [B]Labour's 2004 decision to tighten up the smacking law was partly to blame for last summer's riots[/B], which erupted in his north London constituency.
In an interview with LBC Radio, the former education minister said: "Many of my constituents came up to me after the riots and blamed the Labour government, saying: '[B]You guys stopped us being able to smack our children.[/B]'
"I have to say when this was first raised with me I was pretty disparaging. But I started to listen. [B]These parents are scared to smack their children and paranoid that social workers will get involved and take their children away.[/B]"
Lammy, who admitted to smacking his three- and five-year-old sons, said [B]working-class parents should be able to physically discipline their children to prevent them from joining gangs and getting involved in knife crime[/B].
[B]Current legislation, enforced under the Children Act 2004, says parents are allowed to smack their offspring without causing the "reddening of the skin".[/B]
[B]Previously they could use "reasonable chastisement"[/B], with a judge deciding whether they had overstepped the mark. However, since the 2004 amendments the decision has been left to social workers.
Lammy said a lot of parents in his constituency had been left confused by the changes and were r[B]eluctant to physically discipline their children in case they were contacted by social workers[/B].
He added: "The law used to allow 'reasonable chastisement', but [B]current legislation stops actions that lead to a reddening of the skin – which for a lot of my non-white residents isn't really an issue.[/B]"
The politician said[B] parents in Tottenham had to raise their children "with knives, gangs and the dangers of violent crime just outside the window"[/B], but "no longer feel sovereign in their own homes" because of the laws.
"The ability to exercise their own judgment in relation to discipline and reasonable chastisement has been taken away," he said.
Lammy has set out his support for changing the smacking laws in his book, Out of the Ashes: After the Riots.
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/29/labour-mp-blames-smacking-law-riots?newsfeed=true[/URL]
Can't beat my kids anymore a bloobloobloo
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34463090]Can't beat my kids anymore a bloobloobloo[/QUOTE]
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm1whhU1ci1qhfuqwo1_r1_500.jpg[/img]
Corporal punishment isn't the answer. Positive reinforcement works far better than over-restriction.
Might does not make right. Hitting a child doesn't teach him/her right or wrong.
[QUOTE]Legislation governing the smacking of children needs to be relaxed so working-class parents can take stress out on them in their homes without fear of prosecution, a senior Labour politician has said.[/QUOTE]
Fixed :v:
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463198]Some kids need to be busted in the ass sometimes.[/QUOTE]
No
If you go to jail for hitting an adult just because you don't like what they're doing you should go to jail for an equal or greater period of time for hitting a child for the same reason
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34463234]No
If you go to jail for hitting an adult just because you don't like what they're doing you should go to jail for an equal or greater period of time for hitting a child for the same reason[/QUOTE]
Except no one believes in child rights :v:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34463234]No
If you go to jail for hitting an adult just because you don't like what they're doing you should go to jail for an equal or greater period of time for hitting a child for the same reason[/QUOTE]
We're talking a slap on the leg not a punch in the face, I was smacked as a child and I don't think my parents should be jailed for it, it doesn't bother me one bit
I've received a few spankings as punishment before and I'm not emotionally devastated or some shit.
I'm not saying man up and take it, I'm saying that in moderation and for the right reasons, corporal punishment can be effective.
Funny that there are various journals saying that corporal punishment isn't beneficial, as shown in
Straus, Spanking and the making of a violent society. Pediatrics 98, pages 837–42. PMID 8885984.
Cohen, How can generative theories of the effects of punishment be tested? Pediatrics 98 pages 834–836. PMID 8885983
[QUOTE=Protocol7;34463272]I've received a few spankings as punishment before and I'm not emotionally devastated or some shit.
I'm not saying man up and take it, I'm saying that in moderation and for the right reasons, [B]capital[/B] punishment can be effective.[/QUOTE]
Might mean corporal :v:
[QUOTE=matt.ant;34463250]We're talking a slap on the leg not a punch in the face, I was smacked as a child and I don't think my parents should be jailed for it, it doesn't bother me one bit[/QUOTE]
He has a point though, if you bent over an adult and slapped their arse several times without their permission, and if they, like children do, cried and told you to stop several times while you did, you'd be arrested and charged with assault.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34463234]No
If you go to jail for hitting an adult just because you don't like what they're doing you should go to jail for an equal or greater period of time for hitting a child for the same reason[/QUOTE]
Children need to know their place. A kid cant hit a adult without consequences(done for THOUSANDS of years) Adults need to be able to smack their kids, spankings included. I'm not saying soccer punch the lil' fucker in the eyeball but they need to be taught who is the powerhouse. If you don't do this you end up with bratty-ass kids. And there are some kids that never need to be smacked because they never act-up.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463381]Children need to know their place. A kid cant hit a adult without consequences(done for THOUSANDS of years) Adults need to be able to smack their kids, spankings included. I'm not saying soccer punch the lil' fucker in the eyeball but they need to be taught who is the powerhouse. If you don't do this you end up with bratty-ass kids. And there are some kids that never need to be smacked because they never act-up.[/QUOTE]
Yes because it helps our children to become non-rioting members of society and to not solve problems with violence by hitting them. And no child I have ever seen could hit an adult without consequences. The consequences are just proportional to their age.
Yep, smack your children, it'll stop them from rioting in the future.
Oh wait nope, it changes nothing.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463381]Children need to know their place. [b]A kid cant hit a adult without consequences[/b](done for THOUSANDS of years) [b]Adults need to be able to smack their kids[/b], spankings included. I'm not saying soccer punch the lil' fucker in the eyeball but they need to be taught who is the powerhouse. If you don't do this you end up with bratty-ass kids. And there are some kids that never need to be smacked because they never act-up.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, hypocritical in the same sentence.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463381]but they need to be taught who is the powerhouse[/QUOTE]
So basically you want parents to teach their kids that being an adult (specifically having larger muscles) makes you instantly right because you've gotten the opposing argument to shut the fuck up?
You'd make a horrid teacher, y'know.
[QUOTE=Cone;34463511]So basically you want parents to teach their kids that being an adult (specifically having larger muscles) makes you instantly right because you've gotten the opposing argument to shut the fuck up?
You'd make a horrid teacher, y'know.[/QUOTE]
So your telling me if little johnny goes down the road and beats the shit outa some little girl for no reason, I should sit him in time out? No. And how is that hypocritical? There's a man of the house and it isn't the kids. If the kid is telling the adult to "shut the fuck up" it leads to a kid that doesn't listen to their parents and doesn't respect authority, No smacking kids isn't going to stop riots. But sometimes the parents are wrong and unfairly beat them yes, but you need to be able to smack your kids. I mean its the way people have been living up until this point.(for YEARS might I add)
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463636]So your telling me if little johnny goes down the road and beats the shit outa some little girl for no reason, I should sit him in time out? No.[/QUOTE]
No indeed, sir. Because he wouldn't beat the shit outta some girl if you didn't do the same to him.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463636]And how is that hypocritical? There's a man of the house and it isn't the kids. If the kid is telling the adult to "shut the fuck up" it leads to a kid that doesn't listen to their parents and doesn't respect authority[/QUOTE]
So we're assuming, for the sake of argument, that the parents have done nothing to discipline the kid (because if you have any sources for your apparent "end justify the means" logic being strong, I'd really like to see them), right?
Well good job on attacking a straw man then, because if you knew anything about positive reinforcment then you'd know that wouldn't happen, so I have to take it that you aren't talking about it.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463636]No smacking kids isn't going to stop riots. But sometimes the parents are wrong and unfairly beat them yes, but you need to be able to smack your kids.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]sometimes the parents are wrong and unfairly beat them yes[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]but you need to be able to smack your kids[/QUOTE]
Why the fuck
What
Why would you allow that if you're well aware it gets out of hand
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463636] I mean its the way people have been living up until this point.(for YEARS might I add)[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously arguing that because we aren't extinct yet and we've been doing that it must be the key to not dying?
Edit:
Also you do know a lot of people beat their kids horribly back then right
Have you ever considered a possible link to this
[QUOTE=Vasili;34463220]Might does not make right. Hitting a child doesn't teach him/her right or wrong.[/QUOTE]
KNOW WHAT MIGHT DOES MAKE?
[B][U][I]MIGHT MAKES LIGHT, AND I FEEL[/I][/U][/B]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8EBlH.jpg[/IMG]
[HIGHLIGHT]MIGHTY[/HIGHLIGHT]
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463198]Some kids need to be busted in the ass sometimes.[/QUOTE]
Especially you.
[QUOTE=Cone;34463780]No indeed, sir. Because he wouldn't beat the shit outta some girl if you didn't do the same to him.[/QUOTE]
You're stupid. If the kid beats up a little girl(men don't hit women where I'm from) he needs to be spanked.
[QUOTE=Cone]
So we're assuming, for the sake of argument, that the parents have done nothing to discipline the kid (because if you have any sources for your apparent "end justify the means" logic being strong, I'd really like to see them), right?
Well good job on attacking a straw man then, because if you knew anything about positive reinforcment then you'd know that wouldn't happen, so I have to take it that you aren't talking about it.
[/QUOTE]
So your telling me the one and only spanking I've had my entire life was unjustified? No it was actually a turning point were I stopped being a little brat and started to listen to my elders.
[QUOTE=Cone]
Why the fuck
What
Why would you allow that if you're well aware it gets out of hand
[/QUOTE]
Again, they need to be moderated but a all-out ban is not necessary it causes the kids to have the power of the house. "I'm gonna fail in school and if you smack me I'll report you!" They need to be able to be able to smack but not bruise in any way possible.
[QUOTE=Cone]
Are you seriously arguing that because we aren't extinct yet and we've been doing that it must be the key to not dying?[/QUOTE]
wat?
I'm done arguing with you, I'm gonna go look at porn and smack myself.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463636]So your telling me if little johnny goes down the road and beats the shit outa some little girl for no reason, I should sit him in time out?[/QUOTE]
Take away everything that means something to the child and put him in a very strict "house arrest" of sorts.
Also serve the same microwave heated meal every single day of this house arrest.
Give him a taste of prison, and if that doesn't straighten him out, hitting wont either.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]You're stupid. If the kid beats up a little girl(men don't hit women where I'm from) he needs to be spanked.[/quote]
cool, hitting a kid because he hit a kid will fix everything??
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]So your telling me the one and only spanking I've had my entire life was unjustified? No it was actually a turning point were I stopped being a little brat and started to listen to my elders.[/quote]
because your past is the end-all be-all for parental discipline methodology
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]Again, they need to be moderated but a all-out ban is not necessary it causes the kids to have the power of the house. "I'm gonna fail in school and if you smack me I'll report you!" They need to be able to be able to smack but not bruise in any way possible.[/quote]
How do you moderate corporal punishment??
People need to learn how to raise their kids to not be brats. The kid needs to know WHY you are punishing him. If you just randomly beat the shit out of the kid that's bad and abuse. When little johnny got home you would tell him the punishment + your reasoning so that he wouldn't do it again.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463947]People need to learn how to raise their kids to not be brats. The kid needs to know WHY you are punishing him. If you just randomly beat the shit out of the kid that's bad and abuse. When little johnny got home you would tell him the punishment + your reasoning so that he wouldn't do it again.[/QUOTE]
corporal punishment isn't the right way to raise a kid though.
it sometimes works but not always and you can't trust people do to it effectively.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]You're stupid. If the kid beats up a little girl(men don't hit women where I'm from) he needs to be spanked.[/QUOTE]
Does he? I was thinking more of that "lead by example stuff", y'know, that whole reason people are allowed to be parents? The phrase "he sets a bad example for his children" ring any bells?
Unless your kid's a little psychopath and he's grown to resent you (as I would expect anyone who's had their ass slapped repeatedly against their will to), he will have a thing called "empathy". I'm going to assume I don't have to tell you that it's the cause of that bad feeling you get when you know you've hurt someone (which is why sociopaths are incapable of knowing how much someone has been hurt by their actions). So I'm going to say, at great risk, that you're smart enough to see why that can be manipulated to teach someone wrong from right. Am I correct in saying this?
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]So your telling me the one and only spanking I've had my entire life was unjustified? No it was actually a turning point were I stopped being a little brat and started to listen to my elders.[/QUOTE]
Unjustified? Not entirely. Stupid and unecessary? Yes indeedy.
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463883]Again, they need to be moderated but a all-out ban is not necessary it causes the kids to have the power of the house. "I'm gonna fail in school and if you smack me I'll report you!" They need to be able to be able to smack but not bruise in any way possible.[/QUOTE]
If a kid's failing in school it's because he's either not being taught correctly (by either you or the school) or because the school's doing something wrong. There's a reason for everything, and the prime reason someone may feel resentment towards you (or the school) is because you've held him down and slapped his ass 'till it bruised. I can see why he'd WANT to fail if it means fucking you up. If he [B][I]wants[/I][/B] to fail it's because he hates you and you specifically, and I'm sure that by now you can guess why.
[editline]30th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=The Jackal;34463947]People need to learn how to raise their kids to not be brats. The kid needs to know WHY you are punishing him. If you just randomly beat the shit out of the kid that's bad and abuse. When little johnny got home you would tell him the punishment + your reasoning so that he wouldn't do it again.[/QUOTE]
Your reasoning doesn't matter when he's the one who's been hurt. You have to ask yourself whether or not you want to rule your family through fear, hatred, or genuine respect.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.