• EU accused of crippling future graphics cards
    168 replies, posted
[IMG]http://www.nordichardware.com/images/labswedish/nyhetsartiklar/Nyhetsbilder_Generic/fullimages/Europakommissionen.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]NordicHardware has seen exclusive information about a new energy law that will apply within the EU. The law requires that both discrete and integrated graphics cards live up to certain energy standards. AMD is worried that this will affect next generation graphics cards and have them barred from sales in the EU. There are standardizations that make sure pre-built computers, but also discrete components, achieve a certain level of energy efficiency. Exactly how much depends on a row of criteria. These standards also include simple things, such as that after a certain amount of time the computer will enter sleep mode. The idea behind this is to have as energy efficient computers as possible to reduce the overall consumption of energy. The specification for the so called Eco design Lot 3 with the EC can be found here, where there are hundreds of pages to read for those with lots of time to spare.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.nordichardware.com/images/labswedish/nyhetsartiklar/Grafik/EU_Lot3/fullimages/FB_BW.png[/IMG] [QUOTE]There are currently seven specifications for graphics cards - G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6 and G7. Graphics cards of the G7 classification have a bandwidth of 128 GB/s (GigaByte per Second) and more, without an upper limit today. The category depends on the performance - in this case measured in memory bandwidth. These GPU categories are also paired with a certain level of energy efficiency. If a graphics card doesn't live up to the standard set by the EC it can be removed from all markets within the EU. The rules will now be constricted, which threatens next generation graphics cards. The commission wants to stop dedicated graphics cards of group G7 from going above 320 GB/s - that is in theory a memory bus at 384-bit connected to memory operating at 6667 MHz or 512-bit with 5001 MHz. This is definitely within reach for the next generation graphics cards. Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition currently has a bandwidth of 288 GB/s with a 384-bit memory bus and 6000 MHz memory. For notebooks the limit will be only 225 GB/s. Besides that the energy efficiency requirements will be tighter - in this case the energy consumption of the card in relation to its memory bandwidth. Performance delivered in games or general calculations are irrelevant. according to Lot 3. Exactly what the "performance" and energy consumption quote looks like we don't know at the time of writing, but it will also affect cards in the entry level segment and not just performance and enthusiast cards. The quote is strict enough to worry AMD. [B]Future generations are in danger [/B] According to data NordicHardware has seen from a high level employee at AMD, current graphics cards are unable to meet with these requirements. This includes "GPUs like Cape Verde and Tahiti", that is used in the HD 7700 and HD 7900 series, and can't meet with the new guidelines, the same goes for the older "Caicos" that is used in the HD 6500/6600 and HD 7500/7600 series. Also "Oland" is mentioned, which is a future performance circuit from AMD, that according to rumors will be used in the future HD 8800 series. What worries AMD the most is how this will affect future graphics cards since the changes in Lot 3 will go into effect soon. The changes will of course affect Nvidia as much as it will AMD.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.nordichardware.com/images/labswedish/nyhetsartiklar/Grafik/AMD_Radeon_HD8970/largethumbnails/tenerife2.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Earlier today there were talk about the new restrictions going into effect in early 2013, but now it looks like it will be 2014. This will put nearly unrealistic demands on both AMD and Nvidia. Besides the fact the standardization is not very logical since memory bandwidth does not translate into performance that easily we see it as a great obstacle for future graphics cards, but the revision of "Lot 3" is done and the wheels are set in motion. According to a report published in August this year the current roadmaps [from AMD and Nvidia] does not support the new requirements up until 30 months into the future. The changes in Lot 3 will therefore be introduced in steps. The first will be in 2013 or 2014 as mentioned above, and thereafter new restrictions will apply in 2015. OEM companies like Dell and HP are well aware of this and worried about how this will affect their operations. The changes should also affect retail graphics cards and home builders. Graphics card energy consumption has been rising steadily over the last couple of years. Last generation the limit for the PCI Express standard was broken when graphics cards sporting two GPUs consumed well over 300 watt, both from AMD and Nvidia. Both us and our well informed readers think that the way the EC is applying its restrictions is wrong, especially how it has decided to estimate performance. AMD is planning on making an official statement and hopefully the EC will listen. We have not been able to reach Nvidia for a comment on this issue, but hopefully they share AMD's concern. We definitely feel that restrictions that lead to more efficient hardware is a good thing, but it needs to be done properly with the affected companies being involved in the discussion. We will of course follow up on this and return with more information when possible.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-graphics/46718-eu-cripples-future-graphics-cards-exclusive-.html[/url] according to some commentary on this, this will cause nVidia and AMD to be taxed if they don't comply, and that will lead to higher prices for graphics cards in EU countries
Impossible. They won a peace prize.
That sucks for Europe. But I can understand where the EU is coming from.
EU is a bunch of ego-ecofags,i don't understand why is Serbia even try to enter a union that is a disgrace to humanity. But Serbs are known as good smugglers so when we join EU i am sure that captain smuggler will come to the rescue.
Well, it isn't as though it's not possible for the cards to meet these requirements.
So AMD is pointing fingers because they can't make graphics cards with better energy efficiency? That's like someone said the EU is crippling future phones by making USB a standard for charging them.
Why are there laws on energy efficiency of personal computers? I wouldn't really mind a power-hog computer over a more expensive energy-efficient one. I mean, surely PC enthusiasts can't contribute[I] that [/I]much to overall energy usage.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38009358]So AMD is pointing fingers because they can't make graphics cards with better energy efficiency? That's like someone said the EU is crippling future phones by making USB a standard for charging them.[/QUOTE] It's not just energy efficiency, they want to limit the maximum performance for no good reason, too [quote]There are currently seven specifications for graphics cards - G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6 and G7. Graphics cards of the G7 classification have a bandwidth of 128 GB/s (GigaByte per Second) and more, without an upper limit today. The category depends on the performance - in this case measured in memory bandwidth. These GPU categories are also paired with a certain level of energy efficiency. If a graphics card doesn't live up to the standard set by the EC it can be removed from all markets within the EU. The rules will now be constricted, which threatens next generation graphics cards. The commission wants to stop dedicated graphics cards of group G7 from going above 320 GB/s - that is in theory a memory bus at 384-bit connected to memory operating at 6667 MHz or 512-bit with 5001 MHz. This is definitely within reach for the next generation graphics cards. Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition currently has a bandwidth of 288 GB/s with a 384-bit memory bus and 6000 MHz memory. For notebooks the limit will be only 225 GB/s.[/quote]
politics does not mix with graphics cards
Really? Fuck off EU. If people want to use inefficient computer parts they should bloody well be able to. Also, forcing computers to sleep after a set time? Sorry but no. There's no reason to [i]force[/i] that on anyone. If a user wants to leave their machine running 24/7 they should be able to. It's their money in the end. Makes me glad I don't live there.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;38009358]So AMD is pointing fingers because they can't make graphics cards with better energy efficiency? That's like someone said the EU is crippling future phones by making USB a standard for charging them.[/QUOTE] this is an issue for both, AMD actually tends to have the more energy efficient cards, but not always
[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;38009399]It's not just energy efficiency, they want to limit the maximum performance for no good reason, too[/QUOTE] I can understand why they want good energy efficiency, but why limit the bandwidth? Also, doesn't the EU have better things to do than this?
[QUOTE=TestECull;38009430]Really? Fuck off EU. If people want to use inefficient computer parts they should bloody well be able to. Also, forcing computers to sleep after a set time? Sorry but no. There's no reason to [i]force[/i] that on anyone. If a user wants to leave their machine running 24/7 they should be able to. It's their money in the end. Makes me glad I don't live there.[/QUOTE] The entire point of doing this is for efficiency, because you know, global climate change? If we don't do something now, that rationing will become MUCH MUCH worse if we wait too long.
[QUOTE=Swilly;38009478]The entire point of doing this is for efficiency, because you know, global climate change? If we don't do something now, that rationing will become MUCH MUCH worse if we wait too long.[/QUOTE] graphics card emissions sure are a problem :words:
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38009487]graphics card emissions sure are a problem :words:[/QUOTE] Using larger graphics cards that aren't even being used to their fullest capacity is totally needed :words:
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38009487]graphics card emissions sure are a problem :words:[/QUOTE] The energy being used by all those computers running together, all the time, is actually quite significant, all things considered. Though I still don't approve on forcing it with laws.
Its like... Al Gore is incharge. :zoid:
[QUOTE=Swilly;38009478]The entire point of doing this is for efficiency, because you know, global climate change? If we don't do something now, that rationing will become MUCH MUCH worse if we wait too long.[/QUOTE] No one is complaining about proprietary micro USB on smartphones, because it makes sense. But this is just bullshit from a technical perspective.
Ai Goer pls saev us
[QUOTE=Swilly;38009500]Using larger graphics cards that aren't even being used to their fullest capacity is totally needed :words:[/QUOTE] hi you render 5 minute effect-laden videos 2 or 3 times a day and then come back to me on large graphics cards
Yeah ok, so it might block sales in the EU over newer generations but what's to stop then being bought online and shipped in from the US. This is stupid.
[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;38009543]Yeah ok, so it might block sales in the EU over newer generations but what's to stop then being bought online and shipped in from the US. This is stupid.[/QUOTE] Uhm you realize that we'd actually have to pay the same penalties on import? [editline]12th October 2012[/editline] Unless you know 20 € graphics cards?
[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;38009543]Yeah ok, so it might block sales in the EU over newer generations but what's to stop then being bought online and shipped in from the US. This is stupid.[/QUOTE] The fucking prices. Shipping to EU, especially soviet bloc costs a fortune. And you get essentially no warranty unless you want to send your gpu back to US which costs a fuckton too.
[QUOTE=TestECull;38009430]Really? Fuck off EU. If people want to use inefficient computer parts they should bloody well be able to. [/QUOTE] By using that logic, car makers could say: "If I want to keep on building gas inefficient polluting cars because I don't want to invest in R&D I should have the right to do so!"
More proof that the EU is a piece of shit that should be dismantled asap. But I suppose we will soon get the usual armade of people from FP complaining that the EU is still something that is not a waste of space.
[QUOTE=The fox;38009580]More proof that the EU is a piece of shit that should be dismantled asap. But I suppose we will soon get the usual armade of people from FP complaining that the EU is still something that is not a waste of space.[/QUOTE] Not really it's just proof they need to stay out of stuff that doesn't matter, stop trying to level out the playing field for companies and just let run it course.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38009542]hi you render 5 minute effect-laden videos 2 or 3 times a day and then come back to me on large graphics cards[/QUOTE] Wait, so you're doing that now perfectly fine. And you're complaining?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38009606]Not really it's just proof they need to stay out of stuff that doesn't matter, stop trying to level out the playing field for companies and just let run it course.[/QUOTE] In which case they should not interfere anywhere. In general, nothing that comes out of the EU is good in any way. Just take the regulation of how much curved bananas are allowed to be. Or the fact that they destroy perfectly fine food just to keep prices up on the markets; Or the fact that they impose DDR tactics of surveillance upon all members; And so much more.
[QUOTE=Swilly;38009611]Wait, so you're doing that now perfectly fine. And you're complaining?[/QUOTE] oh no i was saying that you said they were unnecessary vegas practically requires at least a gtx 660
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38009625]oh no i was saying that you said they were unnecessary vegas practically requires at least a gtx 660[/QUOTE] Meanwhile I'm using it with a 460 GTX.
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