Samsung’s lawyers demand to see the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 - Polidicks

[img]http://1876.voxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-05-28samap.jpg[/img] [quote=thisismynext] We always knew the Apple / Samsung lawsuit would produce some major fireworks, and Samsung just lit off a corker: the company filed a motion Friday night asking Apple to turn over the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 as part of the discovery process. Seriously! Samsung claims that it needs to see Apple’s future products because devices like the Droid Charge and Galaxy Tab 10.1 will presumably be in the market at the same time as the iPhone 5 and iPad 3, and Samsung’s lawyers want to evaluate any possible similarities so they can prepare for further potential legal action from Apple. It’s ballsy, but it’s not totally out of the blue: the move comes just a few days after the judge ordered Samsung to hand over pre-production samples of the Droid Charge, Infuse 4G, Galaxy S II, and Galaxy Tab 10.1 and 8.9 so Apple could determine if those products should also be part of the lawsuit and potentially file a motion to block them from the market. Now, the key difference between the two requests is that Samsung had already announced its products, while Apple has maintained its traditional iron silence about future devices. But there’s some additional nuance involved as well, as well as some bigger-picture implications — let’s walk through the entire situation, shall we? Last week, Apple asked the court to order Samsung to hand over samples of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Galaxy Tab 8.9, the Galaxy S II, the Infuse 4G, and the Droid Charge so Cupertino could figure out whether they should be part of the lawsuit — and whether to ask for a preliminary injunction preventing Samsung’s products from going on sale. The court sided with Apple, in large part because Samsung had already released review units and photos of everything listed. In fact, the ruling came just days after Samsung handed out thousands of Galaxy Tab 10.1s at Google I/O, so really the only unreleased product on the list is the Tab 8.9 — a product that was announced in March and has been handled on video. The court imposed one important condition on Apple in order to protect Samsung’s competitive edge, however: only Cupertino’s outside lawyers are allowed to look at Samsung’s pre-release hardware, not anyone from Apple itself. (Of course, there’s nothing stopping someone at Apple from running out and picking up a Droid Charge or Infuse 4G at retail, but pre-production samples that come from Samsung under this order are protected.) Apple hasn’t yet filed for that preliminary injunction, nor has it said it’s going to anytime soon. Now, given that most of the Samsung products on the list were already either available or fully disclosed, it wasn’t surprising that Apple won — in fact, it’s more interesting that Samsung had chose to fight back on such a minor issue in the first place, since it had so little at stake. (And it’s also somewhat interesting that Apple even asked for Samsung’s products in discovery instead of just filing for an injunction from the get-go, since they had all been announced already.) It’s a tell: no little compromises means no big compromises are in the works. So now let’s step through Samsung’s motion to see the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 and try to get a sense of what’s actually happening in context. Samsung’s asking for a court order requiring Apple to produce “the final, commercial versions” of the next-generation iPhone and iPad and their respective packaging by June 13, 2011, so it can evaluate whether there’ll be confusion between Samsung and Apple’s future products. If the final versions aren’t available, Samsung wants “the most current version of each to be produced instead.” Samsung doesn’t actually know Apple is planning to release a new iPhone or iPad; the motion is based on “internet reports” and “Apple’s past practice.” Obviously this is a critical difference between Apple’s request and Samsung’s — Samsung had already disclosed its new products, and Apple didn’t ask for anything that wasn’t already announced. Samsung says it has to see the next-gen iPhone and iPad because it believes those are the products that will actually be on the market against future Samsung devices, so it has to be prepared for Apple’s potential motion for a preliminary injunction. That’s kind of a stretch: Apple can’t really file for a preliminary injunction based on potential confusion with unannounced, unreleased products, so Apple’s lawyers will almost certainly focus on confusion with the company’s existing products. Indeed, Apple told Samsung on May 23 that any potential motion for a preliminary injunction “would be based on products Apple currently has in the market.” Samsung says that doesn’t matter because Apple tends to discontinue previous products when it launches new ones, and it has to be prepared for what might be in the market when and if Apple actually files its motion. This is also a bit strange, since Apple kept both the iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS on the market after launching new models. You can bet Apple will point that out. Samsung’s also promised to abide by the same rules as Apple — only its lawyers will get to see anything Apple produces, not anyone at Samsung. (Or us, unfortunately.) Lastly, Samsung says “fundamental fairness” requires Apple to give up its future products, since Samsung had to do the same. Tellingly, Samsung doesn’t reference any precedent or law to bolster this line of argument — it’s basically just asking the court to be nice. So that’s Samsung’s motion. It’s pretty strange, if you think about it: Samsung is arguing that Apple might file for a preliminary injunction, and that it might happen sometime after Apple might release a new iPhone and iPad. That’s a lot of assumptions — and Apple can basically kill this entire line of argument dead by filing for that injunction Monday morning and saying that Samsung’s already-announced products should be blocked from market because they’ll cause confusion with the iPhone 4 and iPad 2 for however many months remain before the new versions are released. Neither the court nor Samsung really need to see Apple’s unreleased products to deal with that. And even if Samsung wins, Apple will definitely appeal the decision, putting the entire case on hold while things get sorted out… a process that will almost certainly stretch past the iPhone 5′s expected release in the fall, rendering this entire argument somewhat moot. And what happens if Samsung eventually gets the iPhone 5 and determines that the Droid Charge infringes Apple’s patents and trademarks? Is it going to change the Droid Charge? The potential outcomes aren’t entirely favorable here. So why is Samsung even pursuing this? I think it’s a calculated gamble for additional leverage. Apple and Samsung held negotiations for a year before giving up and heading to the courts, and I’m reliably informed that there haven’t been any substantive settlement discussions since Apple first filed its complaint. That means talks have been at a standstill for a long time now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Samsung was trying to put some additional heat on Apple to try and kick negotiations back into gear. It’s an interesting and aggressive move in its own right, but it also highlights the fact that neither Apple nor Samsung have addressed the actual merits of their complaints in formal replies — this is a minor skirmish before the real battle begins. We’ll see if this sideshow accomplishes anything beyond clever lawyerly maneuvering, but for right now it’s clear that Apple and Samsung aren’t planning to back down anytime soon. [/quote] Source: [url]http://thisismynext.com/2011/05/28/samsung-apple-iphone-5-ipad-3/[/url] Ha, Samsung did its job, now its Apple's turn. I bet they will whine and not show em. But hopefully, we get to see pictures of it.

My bets is that Apple haven't made one yet

Great, now we'll see a Samsung product that is competitive in regards to the iPad 3 and the iPhone 5 in the coming months. (As if Android is not already competitive enough with the iPhone in terms of features :rolleye: )

[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;30113312]Great, now we'll see a Samsung product that is competitive in regards to the iPad 3 and the iPhone 5 in the coming months. (As if Android is not already competitive enough with the iPhone in terms of features :rolleye: )[/QUOTE] That's a good thing. It means cheaper alternatives. [I]Much [/I]cheaper than the apple products in this case.

[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;30113312]Great, now we'll see a Samsung product that is competitive in regards to the iPad 3 and the iPhone 5 in the coming months. (As if Android is not already competitive enough with the iPhone in terms of features :rolleye: )[/QUOTE] At the end of the day, all these products are just the same shit with just a different name. It's the brand you pay out the ass for... not so much the product.

[QUOTE=Master117;30113404]At the end of the day, all these products are just the same shit with just a different name. It's the brand you pay out the ass for... not so much the product.[/QUOTE] you don't pay out your arse

Just because Samsung will see the pictures doesn't mean we will.

I hope Apple loses the case You can't fucking patent SHINE

My dad has a Galaxy S and... it is great and all, but half of the Touchwiz software looks IDENTICAL to the iPhone software. Completely identical. I don't know if Apple should or should not win this... but they have a reason to sue in my opinion. Also Samsung's lawyers would see the new products, not Samsung themselves, though I do not think Apple wants anyone to see it.

All Samsung has to look at is what out's now. Apple won't change much on 'em because they're that kind of company.

I wonder how this will affect their hardware partnership, Samsung DOES make all of Apple's phone and tablet processors...

Why should TouchWiz be considred identical? They have an app-drawer with fixed positions and page formatting? Also what's similar about TouchWiz on the homescreen? The "line with apps under it that have phone, contacts, email, browser under it? Seriously? [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=person11;30113956]I wonder how this will affect their hardware partnership, Samsung DOES make all of Apple's phone and tablet processors...[/QUOTE] Samsung doesn't like Apple and Apple doesn't like them but Apple is 3% of Samsung's business? Not so much you say? Most people don't realize that Samsung is a global corporation that isn't all consumer based and they make cars and shit in other countries for example.

[QUOTE=Roo-kie;30113497]you don't pay out your arse[/QUOTE] What if he actually paid with his ass for those products?

[QUOTE=person11;30113956]I wonder how this will affect their hardware partnership, Samsung DOES make all of Apple's phone and tablet processors...[/QUOTE] They shouldn't even be working with em.

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;30114274]They shouldn't even be working with em.[/QUOTE] It is profitable to provide chips for the dozens of millions of iPhones sold. [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;30113967]Why should TouchWiz be considred identical? They have an app-drawer with fixed positions and page formatting? Also what's similar about TouchWiz on the homescreen? The "line with apps under it that have phone, contacts, email, browser under it? Seriously? [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] Samsung doesn't like Apple and Apple doesn't like them but Apple is 3% of Samsung's business? Not so much you say? Most people don't realize that Samsung is a global corporation that isn't all consumer based and they make cars and shit in other countries for example.[/QUOTE] Functionality-wise it is quite different, but in terms of icon design and the design of certain apps, it looks unnecessarily like iOS. I am not saying that the phone icon looks like the iphone one because it has a phone on it, not superficial similarities like that, but near replicas of specific iOS icons. Thisismynext has a very good article about it [url]http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/[/url] [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] Also, Thisismynext has pretty much usurped Engadget as the best gadget news website.

can i see it too? i bet you this time it has three camera's, just so they can say it has three camera's

No. 4 cameras. SIDE CAMERAS. [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] Also: [img]http://1876.voxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/avsamics2.jpg[/img] [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] I understand music can be represented by a note, but one that mimics the iTunes logo? And picture galleries don't need to be represented by a yellow flower, etc.

i don't think there's anything wrong with copying something that works that's my biggest love about the iphone, for me it has the best user interface hands down

[QUOTE=person11;30114507]No. 4 cameras. SIDE CAMERAS. [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] Also: [img]http://1876.voxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/avsamics2.jpg[/img] [editline]28th May 2011[/editline] I understand music can be represented by a note, but one that mimics the iTunes logo? And picture galleries don't need to be represented by a yellow flower, etc.[/QUOTE] every single one of those except for the music one is a completely moot point.

I'm sorry but I don't see any similarities at all in those icons.

Why would they randomly have a sunflower in their pictures icon EXACLY like the iphone if they werent at least attemping to copy it?

[QUOTE=Roo-kie;30113497]you don't pay out your arse[/QUOTE] You do for an iPad, it's shit :smug:

[QUOTE=BCell;30113255]My bets is that Apple haven't made one yet[/QUOTE] Apple probably already built up to iPhone 500 and iPad 497, now they just release them each year.

iPhone 5 and iPad 3? What the hell? Am I in the future?

[QUOTE=Lust;30116819]Why would they randomly have a sunflower in their pictures icon EXACLY like the iphone if they werent at least attemping to copy it?[/QUOTE] Because flowers make pretty pictures?

I'm not an Apple fanboy, but all this competitiveness with the iPhone is damn annoying. Apple had nothing to compete with and dominates the market. Instead of trying to just bitch and complain, build something better.... be what's that word I'm looking for.... oh yeah, creative!

Whatever happens, only Samsung's lawyers will see it so we surely won't. If we do Apple will start yet another massive lawsuit. Wait till the events, Apple makes any event a bit of fun. [QUOTE=wutanggrenad;30117869]I'm not an Apple fanboy, but all this competitiveness with the iPhone is damn annoying. Apple had nothing to compete with and dominates the market. Instead of trying to just bitch and complain, build something better.... be what's that word I'm looking for.... oh yeah, creative![/QUOTE] I don't know what year you're in but Android dominates the smartphone market. The only market Apple dominates is tablet and MP3 players as far as I understand.

[QUOTE=wutanggrenad;30117869]I'm not an Apple fanboy, but all this competitiveness with the iPhone is damn annoying. Apple had nothing to compete with and dominates the market. Instead of trying to just bitch and complain, build something better.... be what's that word I'm looking for.... oh yeah, creative![/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bgr.com/2011/05/19/android-grabs-53-of-global-smartphone-market-share-ios-50-of-application-revenues/[/url] Android actually has a 53% market share. It just feels like ios dominates because all iphones look almost exactly the same while phones that run android only look similar.

[QUOTE=MisterM;30118002]Whatever happens, only Samsung's lawyers will see it so we surely won't. If we do Apple will start yet another massive lawsuit. Wait till the events, Apple makes any event a bit of fun. I don't know what year you're in but Android dominates the smartphone market. The only market Apple dominates is tablet and MP3 players as far as I understand.[/QUOTE] Even then now that honeycomb is released there's a fair few new android 3.0 tablets being released.

All the new iPhone will have is a 3rd camera and will cost double of what the iPhone 4 did. Oh, and it will be a millimeter thinner. [QUOTE=dass;30117762]iPhone 5 and iPad 3? What the hell? Am I in the future?[/QUOTE] No, Apple is the Activision of hardware, they shit out something "new" every year.