British convicts to work full time - Polidicks

[quote=BBC] Mr Clarke made the announcement to the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham on Tuesday. He said the government will begin a major expansion of prison industries to get more inmates working. The Prison Reform Trust said there were questions about what would happen to disabled prisoners but welcomed the idea of people gaining work skills. BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw says it is understood discussions have already begun with a large number of private companies about increasing the number of job opportunities in prisons. Ministers are also considering building a large-scale "working prison" on the site of a factory, possibly a recycling plant. Mr Clarke's aim is for inmates in publicly-run prisons to work a 40-hour week, for which they would be paid the minimum wage, with part of their earnings going to victims. But officials are aware that any move to provide prisoners with work must not be at the expense of local jobs and businesses. In his speech Mr Clarke said jail is a place of "sluggishness and boredom" for many prisoners, where getting up in the morning is "optional". He wants offenders to prepare for life on the outside by establishing the habit of "routine hard work". He said he had never been in favour of "molly-coddling" prisoners or offenders but the current system was failing society, as the prisons were full of people with mental health and drug problems. [/quote] Source: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11470289[/url] Responses: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11477641[/url] Frigging finally, eh? Initially, I thought that paying them was a bit of a joke, and that they should just work for their food and beds. But honestly, this way might actually be better. This way, they have some cash once they get out, and won't need to resort to crime again (provided they don't blow it all on booze/drugs/ aren't klepto etc). What I'd really like to see happen is for manufacturing to be brought back here. If we just imported the materials for consumer electronics and got these guys to manufacture it we could potentially make a considerable profit.

I approve of this

heard this on the radio earlier, problem is it's going to cost alot to set up. Let's just hope they don't let any crazies slip out

hang on, what about all those non-criminals that are struggling to get jobs?! Surly they should be the priority? Or will it become compulsory to commit murder to get a job?

Well good.

No wait I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the memo, but when are we actually going to start fucking punishing them?

[QUOTE=bravehat;25271678]No wait I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the memo, but when are we actually going to start fucking punishing them?[/QUOTE] jail: fuck reforming them and having them contribute to society! [highlight]I WANT BLOOD![/highlight]

[QUOTE=Kybalt;25271728]jail: fuck reforming them and having them contribute to society! [highlight]I WANT BLOOD![/highlight][/QUOTE]

This is a really good idea. They need to be working instead of lounging around watching TV like they do in America. The only problem I have is I hope it doesn't take away from jobs civilians can get.

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25271768]This is a really good idea. They need to be working instead of lounging around watching TV like they do in America. The only problem I have is [b]I hope it doesn't take away from jobs civilians can get.[/b][/QUOTE] this is my only concern with this jail system. well, i also think that the inmates should be given stores in the jail, with reasonably priced things, that they can buy with their hard earned money. essentially the jail part of the system shouldnt try to limit their lives or anything, it should be there to watch them and make sure they dont ruin someone else's life. the best way to do this is not to lock them in a cage.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;25271792]this is my only concern with this jail system. well, i also think that the inmates should be given stores in the jail, with reasonably priced things, that they can buy with their hard earned money. essentially the jail part of the system shouldnt try to limit their lives or anything, it should be there to watch them and make sure they dont ruin someone else's life. the best way to do this is not to lock them in a cage.[/QUOTE] they do have stores in prison maybe that's just america though i'm not sure

[QUOTE=Red Toaster;25271848]they do have stores in prison maybe that's just america though i'm not sure[/QUOTE] ive never been to prison i wouldnt know. but ive never heard of them having stores.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;25271728]jail: fuck reforming them and having them contribute to society! [highlight]I WANT BLOOD![/highlight][/QUOTE] Giving them jobs, a comfortable existence and in many places in the uk xboxs, playstations tv's and the like! Graahhhhh I want blood!! I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;25271917]ive never been to prison i wouldnt know. but ive never heard of them having stores.[/QUOTE] they probably have them in some and not in others [editline]03:06PM[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;25271962]Giving them jobs, a comfortable existence and in many places in the uk xboxs, playstations tv's and the like! Graahhhhh I want blood!! I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.[/QUOTE] i dont think you realize that prisons arent meant to punish people also nice job there "SOME OFFENSES ARE OKAY BECAUSE I SAY SO BUT NOT THOSE BAD PEOPLE THAT DO BAD STUFF THAT I SAY IS WRONG :saddowns:"

I'm sorta ok with this

[QUOTE=bravehat;25271962]Giving them jobs, a comfortable existence and in many places in the uk xboxs, playstations tv's and the like! Graahhhhh I want blood!! [b]I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.[/b][/QUOTE] in bravehat's world jail and prison exist to punish people and exact vengeance. in the real world jail and prison exist to rehabilitate people so that they don't re-offend.

[QUOTE=bravehat;25271962]Giving them jobs, [B]a comfortable existence[/B] and in many places in the uk xboxs, playstations tv's and the like! Graahhhhh I want blood!! I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.[/QUOTE]You have never been in jail, have you? Don't kid yourself, jail is hell no matter how nice the facilities are. The thing is your idea of [B]PUNISH THEM[/B] doesn't work, they go right back to their way of life they had before they got arrested. So you are suggesting we put them all in solitary confinement? You want to make them go insane before we let them back out into society? Take a high school level psychology course, learn a little bit about the human mind, then come back and tell me that's a good idea. [editline]08:12PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;25272050]in bravehat's world jail and prison exist to punish people and exact vengeance. in the real world jail and prison exist to rehabilitate people so that they don't re-offend.[/QUOTE]No, what you are seeing is the difference between Conservative and Progressive views of jail. There are plenty of people who agree with him, which is why American jails suck so much.

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25272127]You have never been in jail, have you? Don't kid yourself, jail is hell no matter how nice the facilities are. The thing is your idea of [B]PUNISH THEM[/B] doesn't work, they go right back to their way of life they had before they got arrested. So you are suggesting we put them all in solitary confinement? You want to make them go insane before we let them back out into society? Take a high school level psychology course, learn a little bit about the human mind, then come back and tell me that's a good idea.[/QUOTE] no this is a dumb idea we should obviously just execute them right after they are convicted :downs: [editline]03:13PM[/editline] [QUOTE=TailsPrower;25272127] No, what you are seeing is the difference between [b]Conservative[/b] and Progressive views of jail. There are plenty of people who agree with him, which is why American jails suck so much.[/QUOTE] why do they even exist

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;25272127]You have never been in jail, have you? Don't kid yourself, jail is hell no matter how nice the facilities are. The thing is your idea of [B]PUNISH THEM[/B] doesn't work, they go right back to their way of life they had before they got arrested. So you are suggesting we put them all in solitary confinement? You want to make them go insane before we let them back out into society? Take a high school level psychology course, learn a little bit about the human mind, then come back and tell me that's a good idea. [editline]08:12PM[/editline] No, what you are seeing is the difference between Conservative and Progressive views of jail. There are plenty of people who agree with him, which is why American jails suck so much.[/QUOTE] I guess you haven't quite caught on have you? Solitary would be for the murderers and rapists and the like, the worst of the worst. They wouldn't be fucking getting back out, so no issues with insanity. Oh and keep in mind this is all subjective here, your morals and my morals differ.

[quote]for which they would be paid the minimum wage, with part of their earnings going to victims[/quote] Very good.

Wow I wish the united states did that so that my uncle can make some money and use it if he's lucky enough to get paroled on a murder charge in november because we ain't gunna help him for shit.

[QUOTE=bravehat;25272480]I guess you haven't quite caught on have you? Solitary would be for the murderers and rapists and the like, the worst of the worst. They wouldn't be fucking getting back out, so no issues with insanity. Oh and keep in mind this is all subjective here, your morals and my morals differ.[/QUOTE] yeah i totally agree. we should prove to the murders and rapists that we are better then them by being worse then them and putting them in a living hell hole. this should totally prove how modern our society is. and of course no murders can ever be rehabilitated, even the ones who did it in the heat of passion or because that person may have driven them to insanity. nope, they totally deserve the hell we will put them in. and of course, the justice system is always 100% accurate, so we dont have to worry about the innocent being subjected to this. i am bravehat and this is the world i live in.

Most criminals are criminals because they can't get a legit job in the first place.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;25271792]this is my only concern with this jail system. well, i also think that the inmates should be given stores in the jail, with reasonably priced things, that they can buy with their hard earned money. essentially the jail part of the system shouldnt try to limit their lives or anything, it should be there to watch them and make sure they dont ruin someone else's life. the best way to do this is not to lock them in a cage.[/QUOTE] In the article they are making that a priority. As I said, I'd really like to see some industry brought back into Britain, be it textiles, fabrication or whatever. As for punishment, I'm finding myself agreeing with bravehat. Certianly, prison is damned unpleasant, but the convicts in there are, quite frankly, scum. Whether it's petty theft or rape, it's an insult to those of us who work, pay taxes, contribute to society, help one another out and don't go out of our way to make other's lives unpleasant. The rehabilitation approach is certainly a good goal to strive for, but a good deal of these people have long since grown past their developmental years and are unlike to have a personality change. I know of numerous cases where released convicts reoffend just to get back in prison, either due to drug lords/gangs waiting for them or simply because their friends are still inside (such as in The Shawshank Redemption). I personally think that prison, at least for the serious crimes like rape and murder, should be an utter hell hole, if for no better reason than the shock value to discourage potential offenders. [QUOTE=Kybalt;25272596]yeah i totally agree. we should prove to the murders and rapists that we are better then them by being worse then them and putting them in a living hell hole. this should totally prove how modern our society is. and of course no murders can ever be rehabilitated, even the ones who did it in the heat of passion or because that person may have driven them to insanity. nope, they totally deserve the hell we will put them in. and of course, the justice system is always 100% accurate, so we dont have to worry about the innocent being subjected to this. i am bravehat and this is the world i live in.[/QUOTE] This is one of the key reasons why prisons have bonuses and rehabilitation programmes. Since the whole thing is run by humans, it is prone to human error and, inevitably, a number of people are wrongly convicted. However, the vast majority of the convicted are guilty, and I don't think serious convicts should have anything other than a miserable time of it just because of a few potential mistakes.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;25272596]yeah i totally agree. we should prove to the murders and rapists that we are better then them by being worse then them and putting them in a living hell hole. this should totally prove how modern our society is. and of course no murders can ever be rehabilitated, even the ones who did it in the heat of passion or because that person may have driven them to insanity. nope, they totally deserve the hell we will put them in. and of course, the justice system is always 100% accurate, so we dont have to worry about the innocent being subjected to this. i am bravehat and this is the world i live in.[/QUOTE] :lol: I don't give a fuck about the moral high ground type shit, and being better than a murderer, I just want them to pay for their fucking crimes against the victim. This is of course taking into account the conditions of the murder, was it an innocent defenceless old woman or was it someone who raped his daughter. And if innocent people are subjected to it then reparations should be paid til the day they die. I believe in eveything being balanced, you kill someone on purpose, then you'll die slowly, painfully as you lose your mind. I'm a draconian retributionist. [editline]08:47PM[/editline] [QUOTE=QwertySecond;25272969]In the article they are making that a priority. As I said, I'd really like to see some industry brought back into Britain, be it textiles, fabrication or whatever. As for punishment, I'm finding myself agreeing with bravehat. Certianly, prison is damned unpleasant, but the convicts in there are, quite frankly, scum. Whether it's petty theft or rape, it's an insult to those of us who work, pay taxes, contribute to society, help one another out and don't go out of our way to make other's lives unpleasant. The rehabilitation approach is certainly a good goal to strive for, but a good deal of these people have long since grown past their developmental years and are unlike to have a personality change. I know of numerous cases where released convicts reoffend just to get back in prison, either due to drug lords/gangs waiting for them or simply because their friends are still inside (such as in The Shawshank Redemption). I personally think that prison, at least for the serious crimes like rape and murder, should be an utter hell hole, if for no better reason than the shock value to discourage potential offenders.[/QUOTE] Don't align yourself with me, I make distinctions between crimes, petty theft is nothing compared to rape or murder and should be treated as such.

[QUOTE=QwertySecond;25272969]In the article they are making that a priority. As I said, I'd really like to see some industry brought back into Britain, be it textiles, fabrication or whatever. As for punishment, I'm finding myself agreeing with bravehat. Certianly, prison is damned unpleasant, but the convicts in there are, quite frankly, scum. Whether it's petty theft or rape, it's an insult to those of us who work, pay taxes, contribute to society, help one another out and don't go out of our way to make other's lives unpleasant. The rehabilitation approach is certainly a good goal to strive for, but a good deal of these people have long since grown past their developmental years and are unlike to have a personality change. I know of numerous cases where released convicts reoffend just to get back in prison, either due to drug lords/gangs waiting for them or simply because their friends are still inside (such as in The Shawshank Redemption). I personally think that prison, at least for the serious crimes like rape and murder, should be an utter hell hole, [b]if for no better reason than the shock value to discourage potential offenders.[/b][/QUOTE] except there is absolutely fucking ZERO data to support that jail discourages potential offenders. its just like the fucking death penalty, statistics routinely show that states with the death penalty have more crime then those without. granted, prison can't be too good, but that doesn't mean we lower prison to the lowest standards of society, it means we have to implement better social programs to help those people.

This should be an opt in thing. But all in all, a good idea.

[QUOTE=bravehat;25271962]I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.[/QUOTE] There are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Strangeways_Prison_riot]reasons[/url] we stopped doing this sort of thing.

Well that kinda sucks. My friend who is British is on Job Support because nobody is hiring, and now Prisoners are getting jobs before he can.

[QUOTE=bravehat;25271962]Giving them jobs, a comfortable existence and in many places in the uk xboxs, playstations tv's and the like! Graahhhhh I want blood!! I want them to be actually fucking punished instead of given fucking jobs and shit, fair enough if they are in for stupid shit like drug possession and stuff like that, but the ones who actually deserve to be there should get put in a fucking room with one meal a day.[/QUOTE] A justice system based around punishment DOES NOT WORK. I will say it again because people are fucking stupid: A JUSTICE SYSTEM BASED AROUND PUNISHMENT *DOES NOT WORK*. You do that and you get the US justice system. Which is as broken as broken can be.