The Vatican has banned Catholics from scattering loved ones' ashes. - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Cremated ashes must be stored in a holy, church-approved place, according to the new guidelines. Catholics are not allowed to keep the ashes of cremated loved ones at home, scattering them or turning them into mementos, under new rules set out by the Vatican. Ashes must be stored in a holy place, such as a cemetery, according to strict guidelines released at a press conference in Rome in the lead-up to All Hallows' Day on November 2, which honours the dead. Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, reiterated that burial of the dead was preferable to cremation. However, noting an "unstoppable increase" in cremation since the Church allowed it in 1963, Cardinal Müller warned against "new ideas contrary to the church's faith" - such as scattering ashes at sea or keeping them in a locket - and dismissed them as "pantheism". "The conservation of ashes in the home is not allowed," Cardinal Müller said. Source: [URL]http://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/culture/article/2016/10/26/vatican-has-banned-catholics-scattering-loved-ones-ashes[/URL][/QUOTE]

I'm not seeing how keeping ashes in a locket is pantheistic

The only part I get from a Christian perspective is to not put too much value on the dead physical body, like carrying the ashes around. The whole keeping them in a "Holy Place" (whatever that means) is silly.

Not going to stop me from scattering my Fathers ashes on his college football field, something he's set his mind on since he was a Freshman, and I don't think he'd change his mind either.

Fuck off. This sounds like a scheme.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;51261803]Not going to stop me from scattering my Fathers ashes on his college football field, something he's set his mind on since he was a Freshman, and I don't think he'd change his mind either.[/QUOTE] enjoy your excommunication

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;51261803]Not going to stop me from scattering my Fathers ashes on his college football field, something he's set his mind on since he was a Freshman, and I don't think he'd change his mind either.[/QUOTE] ooh, you'd better check if its grass or not cas astroturf won't work.... [editline]26th October 2016[/editline] seems like the church is way behind the times on this one, both my parents would rather be cremated than buried with one expressing to be scattered about

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;51261808]enjoy your excommunication[/QUOTE] I dont think they will care all that much, you need to do something really serious in order to get excommunicated, like getting raped at 8 years of age and having an abortion

[QUOTE=sgman91;51261787]The only part I get from a Christian perspective is to not put too much value on the dead physical body, like carrying the ashes around. The whole keeping them in a "Holy Place" (whatever that means) is silly.[/QUOTE] In Catholicism its viewed that a body must be whole or your soul wont go to heaven, or some shit like that. Seperating and spreading ashes has always been a no no. My best friends ashes were kept by his parents. They refused to seperate them at all and couldnt afford a proper earn. Last I checked theyre sitting in a fucking plastic baggy somewhere. Fuck Catholics.

I'm no Pope, but what exactly is system being espoused here? It seems to me that if what they are concentrating on is that in order for resurrection to be a thing a person must be entombed or something along those lines, then what of the thousands who have died over the centuries in less than decent resting places? It's not like the official line is that when it happens all the matter that composed the original body must be there to be put back together. Unless the Vatican is some Frankenstein cult that I'm not aware of, the physical body shouldn't be that important.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51261879]In Catholicism its viewed that a body must be whole or your soul wont go to heaven, or some shit like that. Seperating and spreading ashes has always been a no no. My best friends ashes were kept by his parents. They refused to seperate them at all and couldnt afford a proper earn. Last I checked theyre sitting in a fucking plastic baggy somewhere. Fuck Catholics.[/QUOTE] i don't get what's wrong with catholics as a whole because some couple you know keep some ashes in a plastic baggy. my grandparents are catholics and cremated their parents and scattered their ashes out in the countryside

[QUOTE=sgman91;51261787]The only part I get from a Christian perspective is to not put too much value on the dead physical body, like carrying the ashes around. The whole keeping them in a "Holy Place" (whatever that means) is silly.[/QUOTE] I can't remember what it's called, but I think this is related to a tenet that requested that Catholics should bury their dead so they could retain their dignity, tied to similar tenets that asked that they should care for the sick and help the homeless. This Muller individual probably doesn't think that scattering ashes in the ocean or carrying them around in a locket is particularly dignified and you know what, whatever. He's old and behind with the times and it's not going to stop all Catholics from scattering ashes. It all just depends on where you fall on the fundamentalist spectrum.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51261879]In Catholicism its viewed that a body must be whole or your soul wont go to heaven, or some shit like that. Seperating and spreading ashes has always been a no no. [B]My best friends ashes were kept by his parents. They refused to seperate them at all and couldnt afford a proper earn. Last I checked theyre sitting in a fucking plastic baggy somewhere. Fuck Catholics.[/B][/QUOTE] Really now? It could be because they can't bring themselves to remove the ashes, especially if it is their son. I still have the ashes of my dog who was 13-14 years old when he died and was with me through primary and high school and I can't bring myself to just throw his ashes away either.

When I die just throw me in the trash.

my mother has her father and mothers ashes in our home theres no way they will ever leave there even though shes a pretty faithful catholic i dont think god himself could remove those ashes from there

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;51261808]enjoy your excommunication[/QUOTE] Fuck da pope-leece

[QUOTE=Perrine;51261778]I'm not seeing how keeping ashes in a locket is pantheistic[/QUOTE] Well, Christianity is pretty cut and dry about what happens to you when you die. Catering to spirits and holding some vehemence of ancestors is more in like with things like Shinto beliefs. Urns are effectively shrines to the dead. Scattering ashes could be seen as tying into nature worship or the idea of a cycle of renewal. Undeniably pagan.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;51261883]I'm no Pope,[/QUOTE] You're not fooling me, Francis.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;51262088]Well, Christianity is pretty cut and dry about what happens to you when you die. Your soul is devoured by God. If we're venturing into more modern spins, your soul is either devoured by God as a reward or damned to an eternity in Hell as a punishment.[/QUOTE] You're joking, right? 'Cause that's nowhere near close. [editline]26th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Joshii;51262008]Really now? It could be because they can't bring themselves to remove the ashes, especially if it is their son. I still have the ashes of my dog who was 13-14 years old when he died and was with me through primary and high school and I can't bring myself to just throw his ashes away either.[/QUOTE] I don't think the Vatican has a problem with scattering dog ashes or keeping them at home, just human ashes.

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51262047]If it's anything like the Muslim no-cremation rule it probably has some cop-out clause somewhere that lets god recreate from the damaged remains.[/QUOTE]That's one hell of a jigsaw puzzle.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51261888]i don't get what's wrong with catholics as a whole because some couple you know keep some ashes in a plastic baggy. my grandparents are catholics and cremated their parents and scattered their ashes out in the countryside[/QUOTE] This is completely anecdotal but most catholics I know are like this, including my own mother.

[QUOTE]"The conservation of ashes in the home is not allowed," Cardinal Müller said.[/QUOTE] Oops. My grandfather's ashes are literally sitting in an urn in my closet, lol.

None of the semi-religious people here I know give a flying fuck what the Vatican says. I know my parents don't.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;51262088]Catering to spirits and holding some vehemence of ancestors is more in like with things like Shinto beliefs. Urns are effectively shrines to the dead. Scattering ashes could be seen as tying into nature worship or the idea of a cycle of renewal. Undeniably pagan.[/QUOTE] Sure, but most Christians don't maintain urns or scatter ashes as part of ancestor or pagan worship. Clearly intent matters, so rejecting these actions as pantheistic as Muller appears to do (I bet there's more nuance to it, I'm just going by what the article says) is wrong. As always, doctrinal disagreements can't be dumbed down to "x people do something wrong" or "wow this denomination has really stupid beliefs".

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51262114]This is completely anecdotal but most catholics I know are like this, including my own mother.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile for me, I don't know a single Catholic in my personal life even cremates their deceased. Almost as if anecdotal is rather worthless to judge all of us Catholics.

If it has to be stored in a holy place what's to stop a priest from blessing where you want to put the ashes.

[QUOTE=markg06;51262191]If it has to be stored in a holy place what's to stop a priest from blessing where you want to put the ashes.[/QUOTE] Just have him bless the urn. Problem solved and you can take the ashes anywhere.

This is really dumb but there's literally nothing stopping you from going against the ruling since it's not an actual law. It's just a smelly old man who will be grumpy if you do. Maybe he'll file a complaint to God or something.

[QUOTE=Limed00d;51262271]It's just a smelly old man who will be grumpy if you do.[/QUOTE] I think it's kinda rude to refer to God as a smelly old man. :v:

[QUOTE=Limed00d;51262271]This is really dumb but there's literally nothing stopping you from going against the ruling since it's not an actual law.[/QUOTE] It's a formal instruction based on Catholic doctrine. Presumably devout Catholics would like to adhere to these guidelines, but it's not like they're saying that they'll unleash the inquisition onto your ass if you break doctrine.