[quote]At least two people have been killed in a drive-by shooting outside the offices of Greece's far-right Golden Dawn party in [URL="http://www.euronews.com/tag/athens/"]A[/URL]thens.Golden Dawn, Greece’s third most popular party according to opinion polls, said on its website that the victims, Giorgos Fountoulis and Manos Kapelonis were aged 20 and 23 years old.
The attack comes amid a crackdown by the government on the party after a self-proclaimed Golden Dawn sympathiser stabbed an anti-fascism rapper to [URL="http://www.euronews.com/tag/death/"]d[/URL]eath in September.[/quote]
[URL]http://www.euronews.com/2013/11/01/deadly-shooting-at-greek-golden-dawn-office/[/URL]
Woo, civil war!
Anarchist vs. Fascist...
Oh joy...
Hopefully the Police actually catch and arrest the people that did the shooting, and don't just hand them over to Golden Dawn.
Aren't those guys.. like..
Nazis?
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;42727105]Aren't those guys.. like..
Nazis?[/QUOTE]
Doesn't mean you're allowed to murder them.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;42727114]Doesn't mean you're allowed to murder them.[/QUOTE]
Are you trying to imply Golden Dawn members are not subhuman?
[QUOTE=certified;42727207]Are you trying to imply Golden Dawn members are not subhuman?[/QUOTE]
Its really harmful and anti-intellectual when you instantly label any human who does something supposedly bad as nonhuman.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42727230]Its really harmful and anti-intellectual when you instantly label any human who does something supposedly bad as nonhuman.[/QUOTE]
Neo-Nazism is not "Supposedly" bad. It just Is.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42727230]Its really harmful and anti-intellectual when you instantly label any human who does something supposedly bad as nonhuman.[/QUOTE]
I get harmful, but how is it anti-intellectual?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;42727004]Anarchist vs. Fascist...
Oh joy...
Hopefully the Police actually catch and arrest the people that did the shooting, and don't just hand them over to Golden Dawn.[/QUOTE]
anarchist vs fascist has been going on since fascism was a thing...ya know since fascism represents the ideas that anarchism tries to free us from.
google the spanish civil war.
[QUOTE=certified;42727207]Are you trying to imply Golden Dawn members are not subhuman?[/QUOTE]
Spare me the bullshit. They're human beings, and don't deserve to be gunned down no matter what stupid beliefs they have.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42727320]I get harmful, but how is it anti-intellectual?[/QUOTE]
because it labels those who believe in a different ideology as simply being "not a human" rather than seeking to understand the underlying context of why people subscribe to the ideology in the first place.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42727320]I get harmful, but how is it anti-intellectual?[/QUOTE]
because it means you're not willing to address the actual reasons behind why people do these things.
You just dismiss them as having some otherness that stops them being human, and that is why they do what they do.
It solves nothing.
You'll do more good understanding and tackling extremism if you start accepting that they are all too human.
[QUOTE=certified;42727304]Neo-Nazism is not "Supposedly" bad. It just Is.[/QUOTE]
The "supposedly" comes from the viewpoint of it all.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;42727320]I get harmful, but how is it anti-intellectual?[/QUOTE]
Because then you dont take their arguments seriously. In this case it may not matter as much, but in other ones it might.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42727488]Because then you dont take their arguments seriously. In this case it may not matter as much, but in other ones it might.[/QUOTE]
idk I think understanding what makes neonazis is as important in this case as any.
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;42727355]Calling a group of people subhuman because of ideology is very bigoted.[/QUOTE]
Y'know, I beg to differ to be honest. I hate this whole attitude of, "we have to treat everyone with repsect and dignity no matter what their beliefs are." Fuck that. The second somebody starts loudly trying to reignite the ways of the Nazis I think they've scarified the ability to be seen as 'human'. That's not to say that we shouldn't give them a fair trial and treat them with basic human rights, but on a sort of societal level I no longer see those people as 'humans'.
People pull the same bullshit with things like fundamentalist Islam saying that even if you don't agree with it you have to 'respect their beliefs'. No. I have no respect whatsoever for a system of belief or the people who follow said system when it persecutes women who have been raped and has them killed should they refuse to marry their rapists. Anybody who follows or tries to justify that kind of belief system is a subhuman monster and should go die quietly in a hole somewhere.
And I know this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion so dumb bomb me. I don't fucking care.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42727361]The "supposedly" comes from the viewpoint of it all.[/QUOTE]
I can't see much subjective good to the Nazis having killed 6 million Jews. I'm pretty sure that's something you could quite easily say is 'objectively wrong'.
[QUOTE=certified;42727207]Are you trying to imply Golden Dawn members are not subhuman?[/QUOTE]
this is painfully ironic
[QUOTE=sltungle;42727500]I can't see much subjective good to the Nazis having killed 6 million Jews. I'm pretty sure that's something you could quite easily say is 'objectively wrong'.[/QUOTE]
You're not grasping a simple concept here.
People proscribe to far-right ideals because they think it will make their country better, not just because they like curb stomping hippies - as a very gross simplification.
It happens because humans have different ideas about what is good~.
[QUOTE=sltungle;42727500]Y'know, I beg to differ to be honest. I hate this whole attitude of, "we have to treat everyone with repsect and dignity no matter what their beliefs are." Fuck that. The second somebody starts loudly trying to reignite the ways of the Nazis I think they've scarified the ability to be seen as 'human'. That's not to say that we shouldn't give them a fair trial and treat them with basic human rights, but on a sort of societal level I no longer see those people as 'humans'.
People pull the same bullshit with things like fundamentalist Islam saying that even if you don't agree with it you have to 'respect their beliefs'. No. I have no respect whatsoever for a system of belief or the people who follow said system when it persecutes women who have been raped and has them killed should they refuse to marry their rapists. Anybody who follows or tries to justify that kind of belief system is a subhuman monster and should go die quietly in a hole somewhere.
And I know this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion so dumb bomb me. I don't fucking care.
I can't see much subjective good to the Nazis having killed 6 million Jews. I'm pretty sure that's something you could quite easily say is 'objectively wrong'.[/QUOTE]
It's not about barbarism or disagreeing with them. I absolutely hate nazis and wouldn't mind seeing some Golden Dawn members up against the wall. It has nothing to do with acceptance- trust me, I'm no liberal. But the fact of the matter is that literally dehumanizing them is ignoring the complexities of both humans and those who are fascists. We need to understand the human side of every ideology in order to best understand why people are fascists, why they choose this course. If we want to properly eliminate or counter an ideology like fascism, the way to do it to understand the underlying factors. Tolerance? No. Understanding? Yes. Dehumanizing them only does more harm than good.
[QUOTE=sltungle;42727500]Y'know, I beg to differ to be honest. I hate this whole attitude of, "we have to treat everyone with repsect and dignity no matter what their beliefs are." Fuck that. The second somebody starts loudly trying to reignite the ways of the Nazis I think they've scarified the ability to be seen as 'human'. That's not to say that we shouldn't give them a fair trial and treat them with basic human rights, but on a sort of societal level I no longer see those people as 'humans'.[/QUOTE]
I think people who do not believe in universal human rights are no better
I guess you just can't see the dangerous irony in denying people their humanity because you think they're socially abhorrent.
why is Greece going down the shitter :(
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;42727576]why is Greece going down the shitter :([/QUOTE]
Severe economic troubles push people to seek political alternatives. This has lead to increases in both anarchism and fascism in Greece. The farther the gap in a society's politics, the more they are willing to violently oppose each other.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42727544]I think people who do not believe in universal human rights are no better
I guess you just can't see the dangerous irony in denying people their humanity because you think they're socially abhorrent.[/QUOTE]
I specifically said in that excerpt you quoted that they SHOULD be given a fair trial and human rights I just don't see them as acceptable human beings at that point anymore, I don't respect them, I think their belief systems and their ideals are stupid, barbaric and downright dangerous and it wouldn't bother me in the least if they died.
I guess a good way to put it would be I wouldn't stop and intervene if they were dying. I wouldn't go out of my way to kill them (well not at this stage in my life - if I had actively been at the receiving end of their hate and had suffered some serious hardships due to them I guess I could conceivably wind up in that situation, but as of where I sit right now...), but I wouldn't personally go run and grab a defibrillator if they had a heart attack. I guess that is denying one human right actually, but fuck it - I'm okay with that.
[QUOTE=sltungle;42727619]I specifically said in that excerpt you quoted that they SHOULD be given a fair trial and human rights I just don't see them as acceptable human beings at that point anymore, I don't respect them, I think their belief systems and their ideals are stupid, barbaric and downright dangerous and it wouldn't bother me in the least if they died.
I guess a good way to put it would be I wouldn't stop and intervene if they were dying. I wouldn't go out of my way to kill them (well not at this stage in my life - if I had actively been at the receiving end of their hate and had suffered some serious hardships due to them I guess I could conceivably wind up in that situation, but as of where I sit right now...), but I wouldn't personally go run and grab a defibrillator if they had a heart attack. I guess that is denying one human right actually, but fuck it - I'm okay with that.[/QUOTE]
so then you don't believe in universal human rights, you're just throwing it in your speech so you sound less abhorrent.
Change a few words around and you'll start sounding like a nazi yourself.
Next you won't care if other people start murdering them, oh wait - you already don't.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42727638]so then you don't believe in universal human rights, you're just throwing it in your speech so you sound less abhorrent.
Change a few words around and you'll start sounding like a nazi yourself.[/QUOTE]
to be fair you can change a few words in any ideology around and get it to sound like nazism.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;42727114]Doesn't mean you're allowed to murder them.[/QUOTE]
i know i'm gonna get dumbs over this, but you guys are aware these assholes are LITERAL nazis right? i honestly don't give a shit about a dude that supports an ideology that supports mass genocide getting killed, fuck them.
yeah its a crime and whatever, but still i'm sure as hell not going to cry any tears over literal nazis getting shot/killed.
i'm pretty sure thats the average sentiment over nazis getting hosed too.
he's nowhere near close to nazism because nazi's care about actively murdering and oppressing those they find inferior while he has more of a passive tolerance.
edit: nvm you guys are talking about some other dude.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42727679]he's nowhere near close to nazism because nazi's care about actively murdering and oppressing those they find inferior while he has more of a passive tolerance.[/QUOTE]
He's attributing humanity based on what he deems acceptable.
Sounds p nazi-ish to me brah
[editline]1st November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;42727678]i know i'm gonna get dumbs over this, but you guys are aware these assholes are LITERAL nazis right? i honestly don't give a shit about a dude that supports an ideology that supports mass genocide getting killed, fuck them.
yeah its a crime and whatever, but still i'm sure as hell not going to cry any tears over literal nazis getting shot/killed.
i'm pretty sure thats the average sentiment over nazis getting hosed too.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70763000/jpg/_70763341_kt_624_624.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24653643[/url]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42727699]He's attributing humanity based on what he deems acceptable.
Sounds p nazi-ish to me brah
[editline]1st November 2013[/editline]
[img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70763000/jpg/_70763341_kt_624_624.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
i'm not sure whats that supposed to mean.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
