[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-phone-calls[/URL]
[quote]The judge in [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/20/george-zimmerman-trial-jury-six-women"]the trial of George Zimmerman for the murder of the black teenager Trayvon Martin[/URL] said on Saturday that prosecution audio experts who point to Martin screaming on a 911 call moments before he was killed will not be allowed to testify.Judge Debra Nelson's written ruling was released after hearing arguments during a multiday hearing on whether to allow testimony from two prosecution experts. One expert ruled out Zimmerman as the screamer and another said it was Martin. A defense expert argued there was not enough audio to determine who the screams were coming from. Zimmerman's attorneys also argued that the prosecution experts' analysis is flawed.
Opening statements are set for Monday in the second-degree murder trial for the former neighborhood watch volunteer, who says he fired on the unarmed black teenager in self-defense last year. [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin"]Zimmerman is pleading not guilty[/URL].
The screams are crucial pieces of evidence because they could determine who the aggressor was in the confrontation. Martin's family contends it was the teen screaming; Zimmerman's father has said it was his son.[/quote]
Pretty sure Zimmerman is gonna walk
This case has been so convoluted its really hard to tell who is at fault
[QUOTE=Saxon;41143107]Pretty sure Zimmerman is gonna walk
This case has been so convoluted its really hard to tell who is at fault[/QUOTE]
If I had to bet money, I would probably place it on him being acquitted tbh.
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41143118]If I had to bet money, I would probably place it on him being acquitted tbh.[/QUOTE]
The prosecution really seems to be running on fumes. This is a very heavy blow to them, I'm not sure where else they can go with this case.
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41143118]If I had to bet money, I would probably place it on him being acquitted tbh.[/QUOTE]
eh there have been bigger upsets in murder cases before i.e. OJ simpson
it's really sad how the media has focused on the question of Zimmerman's innocence/lack thereof instead of the actual original controversy of the Sanford Police Department's racist mishandling of the shooting case
[QUOTE=Saxon;41143107]Pretty sure Zimmerman is gonna walk
This case has been so convoluted its really hard to tell who is at fault[/QUOTE]
i think it's really obvious that zimmerman is at fault
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
of course he's going to walk but still
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143468]it's really sad how the media has focused on the question of Zimmerman's innocence/lack thereof instead of the actual original controversy of the Sanford Police Department's racist mishandling of the shooting case[/QUOTE]
hah! haven't you heard? racism is over in america!
i get why judges can rule over what evidence is and is not admissible for juries, but it still makes me really uncomfortable to think about refusing to condition on this type of evidence or that.
[QUOTE=GoldenGnome;41143482]i think it's really obvious that zimmerman is at fault
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
of course he's going to walk but still
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
hah! haven't you heard? racism is over in america![/QUOTE]
There really is not much disputing his story of what happen
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143468]it's really sad how the media has focused on the question of Zimmerman's innocence/lack thereof instead of the actual original controversy of the Sanford Police Department's racist mishandling of the shooting case[/QUOTE]
What was the racist mishandling again?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41143499]There really is much disputing his story of what happen
What was the racist mishandling again?[/QUOTE]
That initially he was taken into the police department, questioned, and then released without charge. If the shooting hadn't become a national news story and the media hadn't put pressure on the Police Department for information, it's likely no formal investigation would have ever occurred for the shooting death of a teenager by a grown man.
It's super naive to think that the police department's decision to ask the shooter what happened, take his word for it, and then let him go had nothing to do with the fact that the victim was black.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143569]That initially he was taken into the police department, questioned, and then released without charge. If the shooting hadn't become a national news story and the media hadn't put pressure on the Police Department for information, it's likely no formal investigation would have ever occurred for the shooting death of a teenager by a grown man.
It's super naive to think that that had nothing to do with race.[/QUOTE]
There is nothing to suggest it had anything to do with race. Everything has so far collaborated with his original claim of self defense.
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
At most you could contribute it to shoddy police work or just the fact that it appeared at all turns to be a result of self defense.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41143592]There is nothing to suggest it had anything to do with race. Everything has so far collaborated with his original claim of self defense.[/QUOTE]
hey you managed to forget the point in a record one post. congratulations
[b]It has nothing to do with whether or not Zimmerman was actually defending himself.[/b]
[b]It has everything to do with the police not giving a shit about a dead black teenager.[/b]
In a country in which black men are incarcerated at six times the rate white men are it's fucking crazy to think that the widespread racism in America's justice system magically had nothing to do with a police department's decision not to investigate the shooting death of a black teenager.
Full female jury
Fact that Treyvon had a gun he was looking to sell can't be mentioned in court
Fact that he had drugs, and was suspended from school for drugs can't be mentioned in court
Stolen property and burgling tools he had on him can't be mentioned in court
Well why don't we just skip the trial and put Zimmerman in prison, fucking hell
The kid was the very type that Zimmernan's neighborhood watch was trying to look out for. He shouldn't have played police, but I think Treyvon was a thug and did start a physical altercation.
If Zimmerman walks, though, prepare for the race riots
[QUOTE=TheTalon;41143675]
The kid was the very type that Zimmernan's neighborhood watch was trying to look out for. He shouldn't have played police, but I think Treyvon was a thug and did start a physical altercation.
If Zimmerman walks, though, prepare for the race riots[/QUOTE]
I mean look at this racist stuff right here even ^^^^^
It's fucking everywhere
[QUOTE=TheTalon;41143675]If Zimmerman walks, though, prepare for the race riots[/QUOTE]
I don't think those "Official advisory guide for chimpouts" on /pol/ are entirely accurate.
I mean, where is this idea that there will be widespread race riots coming from?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143669]hey you managed to forget the point in a record one post. congratulations
[b]It has nothing to do with whether or not Zimmerman was actually defending himself.[/b]
[b]It has everything to do with the police not giving a shit about a dead black teenager.[/b]
In a country in which black men are incarcerated at six times the rate white men are it's fucking crazy to think that the widespread racism in America's justice system magically had nothing to do with a police department's decision not to investigate the shooting death of a black teenager.[/QUOTE]
i'm reasonable sure there would have been an investigation, even if it wasn't taken as seriously as it should have initially
police departments are desperate to appear non-racist
I mean
a dead body is hard to ignore
someone has to bury it, there would be a funeral and everything
word would get out in the community that some black kid was shot by a white officer, the police department would have to answer some awkward questions regardless of a big media frenzy, it'd just take a little longer
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143669]
[B]It has everything to do with the police not giving a shit about a dead black teenager.[/B]
In a country in which black men are incarcerated at six times the rate white men are it's fucking crazy to think that the widespread racism in America's justice system magically had nothing to do with a police department's decision not to investigate the shooting death of a black teenager.[/QUOTE]
That's a very bleak, and very broadly stretched view.
It seems much more likely the reason Zimmerman was let go was because he was the
security coordinator for the community and bleeding from lacerations supporting his story of self-defense.
I feel that would go down the same in any concealed carry state if their positions were reversed.
The stand your ground law is also pretty heinously borked.
I'm not saying there's no race angle to this, primarily the media coverage using it to their advantage,
but I haven't seen enough info to think the police were shunning duty over race in this situation.
The simplest solution is usually the right one. (i.e incompetence.)
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41143753]I don't think those "Official advisory guide for chimpouts" on /pol/ are entirely accurate.
I mean, where is this idea that there will be widespread race riots coming from?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots]oh i dunno[/url]
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143669]hey you managed to forget the point in a record one post. congratulations
[B]It has nothing to do with whether or not Zimmerman was actually defending himself.[/B]
[B]It has everything to do with the police not giving a shit about a dead black teenager.[/B]
In a country in which black men are incarcerated at six times the rate white men are it's fucking crazy to think that the widespread racism in America's justice system magically had nothing to do with a police department's decision not to investigate the shooting death of a black teenager.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what point I forgot. There is no evidence to suggest his release was raced based, just because Martin was black and there was an outcome that was questionable doesn't automatically mean the cops "don't give a shit about a dead black teenager".
There are many things that could have contributed to his release, such as all the evidence collaborating with the claim of self defense. They might have felt there was no need for an investigation, like I said perhaps shoddy police work. Racism could have been a possibility but claiming it as a fact is stupid.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41143754]i'm reasonable sure there would have been an investigation, even if it wasn't taken as seriously as it should have initially
police departments are desperate to appear non-racist[/QUOTE]
Well maybe instead of trying to "appear" not racist they should just "be" not racist instead. They're not doing a very good job hiding it because the racism of the American justice system is basically a platitude at this point.
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41143768]I'm not sure what point I forgot. There is no evidence to suggest his release was raced based, just because Martin was black and there was an outcome that was questionable doesn't automatically mean the cops "don't give a shit about a dead black teenager".
There are many things that could have contributed to his release, such as all the evidence collaborating with the claim of self defense.[/QUOTE]
You can come up with a million weird little possibilities like "they were bad police in a non-racist way" and "a brief questioning of the perpetrator of and (to our knowledge) sole witness of a shooting constitutes a full-fledged investigation" but why are those more legitimate possibilities than "race was involved?
You're coming up with all of these alternate theories for why the case was handled like it was but what makes any of those [b]equally conjectural[/b] theories less legitimate than the theory that involves race? Why is that the only theory you're dismissing out of hand?
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
You have no idea what they said in the police department when they questioned him that night either. That they even pressed him for information at all is just as much conjecture as the involvement of race in their decision.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143780]Well maybe instead of trying to "appear" not racist they should just "be" not racist instead. They're not doing a very good job hiding it because the racism of the American justice system is basically a platitude at this point.[/quote]
because most people involved in law enforcement are race realists
they can't be "not racist" any more than they can believe that 2 and 2 make 5.
[quote]You're coming up with all of these alternate theories for why the case was handled like it was but what makes any of those [b]equally conjectural[/b] theories less legitimate than the theory that involves race? Why is that the only theory you're dismissing out of hand?[/QUOTE]
i'm not exactly dismissing it out of hand but i think it's unlikely
because y'know, if a higher-up is found to be running an organization that executed a kid based on his race then there's gonna be hell to pay
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143780]
You have no idea what they said in the police department when they questioned him that night either. [/QUOTE]
Do you know? I sure don't.
my explanation is "incompetence"
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;41143893]because most people involved in law enforcement are race realists[/QUOTE]
lol
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
hold on let me append this post so it's not a low-content reply:
lmao
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;41143592]There is nothing to suggest it had anything to do with race. Everything has so far collaborated with his original claim of self defense.
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
At most you could contribute it to shoddy police work or just the fact that it appeared at all turns to be a result of self defense.[/QUOTE]
zimmerman initiated the conflict by chasing an innocent teenager down with a gun, he deserved any attack martin gave him
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
"omg he had scrapes on the back of his head clearly justified to kill martin! did you know he smoked weed??"
quick reminder that zimmerman is a full grown man armed with a handgun who decided to call the police because he saw a black person, then against the advice of the 911 operator he chased martin down on foot. what the fuck would you do if some giant mongoloid with a gun chased you down at night
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41143780]
You can come up with a million weird little possibilities like "they were bad police in a non-racist way" and "a brief questioning of the perpetrator of and (to our knowledge) sole witness of a shooting constitutes a full-fledged investigation" but why are those more legitimate possibilities than "race was involved?
You're coming up with all of these alternate theories for why the case was handled like it was but what makes any of those [b]equally conjectural[/b] theories less legitimate than the theory that involves race? Why is that the only theory you're dismissing out of hand?
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
You have no idea what they said in the police department when they questioned him that night either. That they even pressed him for information at all is just as much conjecture as the involvement of race in their decision.[/QUOTE]
I didn't come onto this thread asking why the media isn't covering the shoddy police work of the Stanford police department, because as you said it is something that is based only on an assumption. I even said that I am not dismissing the racism, but its shitty to say "look at those racist fucks" just because the is racism in the criminal justice system.
i could give a fuck what the investigation concludes about who "started" the physical confrontation. without zimmerman's overzealous and likely racially motivated hero complex martin would be alive and zimmerman could go on living his pathetic life of mediocrity
i'm going to put another, smaller lol right over here. it'll really bring the room together.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41144022]zimmerman initiated the conflict by chasing an innocent teenager down with a gun, he deserved any attack martin gave him
[editline]22nd June 2013[/editline]
"omg he had scrapes on the back of his head clearly justified to kill martin! did you know he smoked weed??"
quick reminder that zimmerman is a full grown man armed with a handgun who decided to call the police because he saw a black person, then against the advice of the 911 operator he chased martin down on foot. what the fuck would you do if some giant mongoloid with a gun chased you down at night[/QUOTE]
There isn't anything suggesting Zimmerman chased him down with a gun drawn or even initially confronted him.
Even if he walks someone would put a hit bounty on him. The whole incident stirred a pot and brought up connections we didn't even know existed until then.
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