70,000 rally in Kiev in fresh show of force - Polidicks

[img]http://imgkk.com/i/y630.jpg[/img] [url]http://news.yahoo.com/tens-thousands-gather-kiev-anti-yanukovych-protest-114844998.html;_ylt=AwrBEiThvPdSGyQA2ObQtDMD[/url] [quote]An estimated 70,000 pro-Western Ukrainians thronged the heart of Kiev on Sunday vowing never to give up their drive to oust President Viktor Yanukovych for his alliance with old master Russia. Wearing blue and yellow ribbons -- the colours of both Ukraine and the European Union -- the crowd received a religious blessing before opposition leaders took to a podium on Independence Square in a bid to ratchet up pressure on Yanukovych to appoint a new pro-Western government. "None of the kidnappings and tortures have yielded any results," said Igor Lutsenko, an activist who survived a severe beating after reportedly being abducted from hospital during deadly unrest in January. The ex-Soviet nation of 46 million people has been in chaos since November when Yanukovych ditched an historic EU trade and political pact in favour of closer ties with Moscow, stunning pro-EU parts of the population and sparking violent protests.[/quote]

Good, dont give up!

Please give up.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43848474]Please give up.[/QUOTE] Any reason for wanting them to give up?

[QUOTE=Quark:;43848506]Any reason for wanting them to give up?[/QUOTE] I support the protests, but I gotta admit this is fucking over their economy even more. Investers won't get close to Ukraine for a good number of years after this whole ordeal, and their currency has been devaluated to fuck and is still falling.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43848545]I support the protests, but I gotta admit this is fucking over their economy even more. Investers won't get close to Ukraine for a good number of years after this whole ordeal, and their currency has been devaluated to fuck and is still falling.[/QUOTE] Don't worry, all they gotta do is join the good guys, the EU! Then all their problems will be instantly solved using democratic sorcery, corruption will be rooted out overnight and the hryvnia will be the most valued currency ever and New Ukraine will enter a golden age of Western progress.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43848578]Don't worry, all they gotta do is join the good guys, the EU! Then all their problems will be instantly solved using democratic sorcery, corruption will be rooted out overnight and the hryvnia will be the most valued currency ever and New Ukraine will enter a golden age of Western progress.[/QUOTE] Haha no, who says that? They will have to work hard to reform their economy,industry,justice system and then they'll see growth. Romania when it joined for example, most of our industry was too old to compete, everything was destroyed,closed and sent to scrap. Now, we export in a month what Ceausescu exported in a year, our industrial output is growing and we're experiencing some of the biggest growths in the EU. Also our justice system is finally starting to arrest politicians and doing it's job. This is 6 years after we joined, Ukraine will have to change a lot. But you gotta think about it like this, the EU forces change. They send commissions to check on progress with the justice, investors also are encouraged if you are a member country. Joining Russia would only encourage the corruption present in Ukraine and will subsidize the old uncompetitive industry, and Ukraine staying as it is now would just continue with it's own ways of being so poor for such a big country.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43848578]Don't worry, all they gotta do is join the good guys, the EU! Then all their problems will be instantly solved using democratic sorcery, corruption will be rooted out overnight and the hryvnia will be the most valued currency ever and New Ukraine will enter a golden age of Western progress.[/QUOTE] Your cheap and lazy irony is accomplishing absolutely nothing.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43848610]Haha no, who says that? They will have to work hard to reform their economy,industry,justice system and then they'll see growth. Romania when it joined for example, most of our industry was too old to compete, everything was destroyed,closed and sent to scrap. Now, we export in a month what Ceausescu exported in a year, our industrial output is growing and we're experiencing some of the biggest growths in the EU. Also our justice system is finally starting to arrest politicians and doing it's job. This is 6 years after we joined, Ukraine will have to change a lot. But you gotta think about it like this, the EU forces change. They send commissions to check on progress with the justice, investors also are encouraged if you are a member country. Joining Russia would only encourage the corruption present in Ukraine and will subsidize the old uncompetitive industry, and Ukraine staying as it is now would just continue with it's own ways of being so poor for such a big country.[/QUOTE] The EU is tough but rewarding love, Russia is more like pissing your pants when you're freezing.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43848578]Don't worry, all they gotta do is join the good guys, the EU! Then all their problems will be instantly solved using democratic sorcery, corruption will be rooted out overnight and the hryvnia will be the most valued currency ever and New Ukraine will enter a golden age of Western progress.[/QUOTE] Out of all your stupid strawmanning, "democratic sorcery" seems the most disturbing to me. Are you suggesting that a democratic system is the enemy in this situation?

I wonder what would happen if there was a concerted effort by this many people to build, grow food, innovate and effectivize.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43848474]Please give up.[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Revolution]The Russians didn't give up in trying to improve their own lives and remove an oppressive monarchy[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_revolution]The Americans didn't give up defending their rights[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_revolution]The French didn't give up in removing a tyrannical monarchy[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War]The Libyans didn't give up removing a despot that has been in place for decades[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderplatz_demonstration]The Germans didn't want to give up in reunifying their country [/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement]The Indians didn't want to give up in establishing their own country[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhai_Revolution]The Chinese didn't want to give up in abolishing a reigning and corrupt dynasty that was bring their country and their livelihoods to ruin[/url] I'll just leave those there. If these people want it that badly then they are sure as Hell not going to settle with a shitty system they have. Your lack of empathy for any of those people clearly shows. [editline]9th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Melnek;43848578]Don't worry, all they gotta do is join the good guys, the EU! Then all their problems will be instantly solved using democratic sorcery, corruption will be rooted out overnight and the hryvnia will be the most valued currency ever and New Ukraine will enter a golden age of Western progress.[/QUOTE] What are you 12? You realize that things at this scale never gets done in a single day? This isn't some fucking Civ game where you click for results. A country with millions of people are going to have to work out their problems.

I love how Melnek supports the recent Swiss immigration vote because it's what the population wants... [QUOTE=Melnek;43848363]If Swiss citizens want less immigrants in their own country then why is it such a bad thing?[/QUOTE] But in this case, for some reason, he doesn't care what the population wants because "democratic sorcery". Hypocrite much or just trying hard to shitpost like always?

i wonder if calling the EU sorcerers is the point where you go off the deep end or just symptomatic of having long since done so

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;43849341][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Revolution]The Russians didn't give up in trying to improve their own lives and remove an oppressive monarchy[/url][/QUOTE] This one backfired so fucking bad that you really shouldn't list it.

[QUOTE=Ezhik;43850037]This one backfired so fucking bad that you really shouldn't list it.[/QUOTE] Every single item in that list had some backfire to it, so don't single out that one.

Ukraine is p much fucked. Once they join the EU the economy is going to be so shitty everybody will migrate to the western eu. The only thing that could save Ukraine would be a Russian bailout.

[QUOTE=laserguided;43850218]Ukraine is p much fucked. Once they join the EU the economy is going to be so shitty everybody will migrate to the western eu. The only thing that could save Ukraine would be a Russian bailout.[/QUOTE] or the tanks that are 30 minutes away.

[QUOTE=laserguided;43850218]Ukraine is p much fucked. Once they join the EU the economy is going to be so shitty everybody will migrate to the western eu. The only thing that could save Ukraine would be a Russian bailout.[/QUOTE] Yeah a Russian bailout would "save" Ukraine.

[QUOTE=laserguided;43850218]Ukraine is p much fucked. Once they join the EU the economy is going to be so shitty everybody will migrate to the western eu. The only thing that could save Ukraine would be a Russian bailout.[/QUOTE] All it would do is keep Ukraine afloat for a couple more years. Ukraine is fucked in both situations but only one choice has a good ending. Either it goes for the EU and it will have to do a lot of HARSH reforms, and have to experience all of it's industry fall to pieces and then rebuild it, for to finally the country to experience proper democracy and a modern economy after decades of work. Or just go for Russia and be supplied with money, but to stay in stagnation because they will never be forced to change.

I just hope they find some peace and stability soon.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;43849879]I love how Melnek supports the recent Swiss immigration vote because it's what the population wants... But in this case, for some reason, he doesn't care what the population wants because "democratic sorcery". Hypocrite much or just trying hard to shitpost like always?[/QUOTE] He's russian, so I guess he's a bit biased on this issue

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43851076]He's russian, so I guess he's a bit biased on this issue[/QUOTE] That's what I get for trusting flagdog, I thought he was Israeli.

[QUOTE=_Kent_;43851208]That's what I get for trusting flagdog, I thought he was Israeli.[/QUOTE] He lives in Israel, but comes from Russia

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;43849879]I love how Melnek supports the recent Swiss immigration vote because it's what the population wants... But in this case, for some reason, he doesn't care what the population wants because "democratic sorcery". Hypocrite much or just trying hard to shitpost like always?[/QUOTE] It's almost as if I choose to examine and judge each international occurrence separately based on the circumstances and the ramifications of each individual case instead of applying stupid, pointless blanket-criteria to every single political incident or event. My original post about 'democratic sorcery' was a jab at people who seem to hold the belief that hard-work and the betterment of a country could only be done via the democratic EU, while the same exact thing applies to siding with the Eastern bloc. If a population wants to make their nation a better place it should make no difference to whom they align in the political spectrum. And with globalization so firmly in place, it's not as extreme as Ukraine having to choose between democracy and total authoritarianism no matter to which degree you hyperbole and exaggerate the Russian condition. It is naive and very biased to instantly assume that every nation of the EU is hard-working and as a result has a 'tough love' relationship with the EU where only if you work hard and contribute do you get any results. This literally applies to every single nation on earth and I do not understand why so many of you hold this belief that the instant Ukraine - by some miracle - manages to join the EU the population will instantly want to work hard and better themselves when they can just fall down the same hole as Greece since they've already torn their own country apart and could just start asking the EU for 'funds' to mend their own recklessness. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] And taking into account the amount of corruption in Ukraine, guess where most of those European funds will go to? Pockets of individuals who are well-versed in the exploitation of monetary governmental 'assistance'.

it's not about joining EU or joining russia, it's about getting rid of that piece of shit president who had protestors tortured and murdered and put up all those tyrannical laws

The protests originally started as a reaction against the president who backed out of the ongoing talks with the EU (after they left him twisting in the wind) and Russian influence, and it only became a priority to get rid of him after he used excessive force to quell protesters. What do you think will happen after they accomplish that? Back to negotiation with EU which is what I'm talking about.

who cares? he clearly has shown he's a piece of shit that needs to be got rid of. worry about the economy and the EU later

Just bomb the country off the map and rebuild a peaceful little town on top of the rubble. Why do people complicate shit so much?

[QUOTE=Melnek;43855014]The protests originally started as a reaction against the president who backed out of the ongoing talks with the EU (after they left him twisting in the wind) and Russian influence, and it only became a priority to get rid of him after he used excessive force to quell protesters. What do you think will happen after they accomplish that? Back to negotiation with EU which is what I'm talking about.[/QUOTE] Thing is the protests didn't become what they are until he tried to squash them. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Dakiin Dovah;43855030]Just bomb the country off the map and rebuild a peaceful little town on top of the rubble. Why do people complicate shit so much?[/QUOTE] Also what the fuck are you doing?