Video game voice actors unionized with SAG-AFTRA considering strike action - Polidicks

[url]http://www.neowin.net/news/video-game-voice-actors-considering-strike-action[/url] [quote=Neowin]Voice actors belonging to a union called The Screen Actors Guild - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA), are considering holding a strike over pay and conditions. The deadline for voting is October 5th and requires 75% of supporting votes for the strike to go ahead. The union particularly wants to bring attention to what it calls voice stress, which according to Wil Wheaton who voted for the strike, is like reading a book for six or seven hours and then trying to audition later in the week, you can't "because your voice is wrecked." SAG-AFTRA say that voice stress is encouraged by continually shouting, something common in games. For this reason the union proposes actors receive stunt pay for vocally stressful recording sessions and for such sessions to be restricted to two hours at a time. If a game sells more than two million copies the union wants the voice actors to be paid further with "performance bonuses".[/quote]

Things are pretty shit for most people who work in the video game industry. Anything that can improve conditions for them, even if its just for voice actors, would be really welcomed.

konami treated there voice actors/actress like shit ( from Silent Hill 2 and 3)

As a hobbyist voice actor who has done a few large-scale recordings, I can confirm how incredibly strenuous it is on the vocal cords. I had recorded the generic lines for some characters in a Skyrim mod, the "hellos," "goodbyes," "I'm gonna kill you," etc. and there were about 400 lines for each of them. A single day of recording that made my voice weak for a few days (especially for voices like the Argonians), and that's just 400 lines (and retakes. Lots and lots of retakes...) Standing in my closet recording for just half an hour can make me start to sweat, my feet and palms get tingly, and I can get light headed to a certain degree. It really does involve your whole body when you do this sort of thing. Imagine what these professionals go through, being put in the wringer for potentially thousands of lines for very long recording sessions in the booth, especially for loud, shouting lines as the article says. Would be nice if it was a little more lax for those guys, it can all get really tiring. [editline]edit[/editline] [QUOTE=Nystical;48763169]I've heard not even developers are paid royalties.[/QUOTE] Wow, what

I've heard not even developers are paid royalties. (that work MUCH harder than voice actors) Maybe if they union-ed together they would be more effective.

[QUOTE=Nystical;48763169]I've heard not even developers are paid royalties. (that work MUCH harder than voice actors) Maybe if they union-ed together they would be more effective.[/QUOTE] Royalties? What are you going on about? There are a lot of people involved in game development, how could it be financially feasible to accommodate so many royalties?

[QUOTE=peepin;48763251]Royalties? What are you going on about? There are a lot of people involved in game development, how could it be financially feasible to accommodate so many royalties?[/QUOTE] As a Modeller for a 3D show, that idea is hilarious. Salary pay is usually fine (at least where I work, and I've heard that they pay less than EA or other companies in the city), and having a blockbuster game/tv/show/whatever on my CV/Resume is bonus enough if what I make is successful.

[QUOTE=peepin;48763251]Royalties? What are you going on about? There are a lot of people involved in game development, how could it be financially feasible to accommodate so many royalties?[/QUOTE] I saw another post about the same story saying one of the goals of the union was for voice actors to get royalties. Which is why I brought it up.

[QUOTE=Nystical;48763435]I saw another post about the same story saying one of the goals of the union was for voice actors to get royalties. Which is why I brought it up.[/QUOTE] I understand what you meant by that post; even the devs don't get royalties why should voice actors. The part that really pissed me off was this: [QUOTE]SAG-AFTRA are trying to push game producers to give out more information to voice actors about the sort of work they'll be doing. Wheaton defends this decision saying "Asking us to go into something with absolutely zero knowledge about the project, or what we'll be expected to do if we are cast, is completely unreasonable".[/QUOTE] Honestly, more than half the time producers don't know what will be needed until it is needed. Seriously there is a lot of trial and error when it comes to video game design. I'm sure voice actors get a basic outline as to what they might have to say. Or in what tone of voice.. But, knowing exactly what to expect is just unreasonable on all levels.

[QUOTE=peepin;48763251]Royalties? What are you going on about? There are a lot of people involved in game development, how could it be financially feasible to accommodate so many royalties?[/QUOTE] Royalties actually used to be a thing for game developers, but to fit profit margins, they were removed from developers. Developers get the consistent short end of the stick and they've likewise stated an almost unanimous, 'Fuck you' to voice actors.

I know Kotaku is biased as fuck but they had an article about this that told a bit of both sides, with actors and developers. [URL="http://kotaku.com/not-everyone-is-supporting-a-possible-voice-actor-strik-1732874431"]http://kotaku.com/not-everyone-is-supporting-a-possible-voice-actor-strik-1732874431[/URL]

Gearbox software still pays royalties to all developers

[QUOTE=Nystical;48763169]I've heard not even developers are paid royalties. (that work MUCH harder than voice actors) Maybe if they union-ed together they would be more effective.[/QUOTE] Why would employees be paid royalties? Builders don't get paid royalties when people use theaters they've built, tailors don't get paid royalties when people buy the clothes they've created, etc. You get paid an hourly wage/salary, and that's it. If you're doing a one off illustration that is used in a hugely significant way in the branding, or if you were the composer of the marketing theme for Skyrim you might negotiate royalties in lieu of a more expensive one-off commission fee. But if you are one of many developers within a company there is no precedent that says you'd be paid royalties.

[QUOTE=peepin;48763527]I understand what you meant by that post; even the devs don't get royalties why should voice actors.[/QUOTE] Actors get royalties, even for animated films that only require voice work. For some reason voice actors aren't treated as "real actors" even though they do the same thing.

[QUOTE=Lunik;48763168]As a hobbyist voice actor who has done a few large-scale recordings, I can confirm how incredibly strenuous it is on the vocal cords. I had recorded the generic lines for some characters in a Skyrim mod, the "hellos," "goodbyes," "I'm gonna kill you," etc. and there were about 400 lines for each of them. A single day of recording that made my voice weak for a few days (especially for voices like the Argonians), and that's just 400 lines (and retakes. Lots and lots of retakes...) Standing in my closet recording for just half an hour can make me start to sweat, my feet and palms get tingly, and I can get light headed to a certain degree. It really does involve your whole body when you do this sort of thing. Imagine what these professionals go through, being put in the wringer for potentially thousands of lines for very long recording sessions in the booth, especially for loud, shouting lines as the article says. Would be nice if it was a little more lax for those guys, it can all get really tiring. [/QUOTE] People are lead to believe that most voice actors hang back, have a cup of tea, and make an easy living just talking into a microphone. That's not the case at all because it is a whole lot more involved than what most people think. It's a hard job and I have a lot of respect for voice actors that are both big and small in the industry. I really hope this works and gets them the treatment they deserve because it has been well overdo. [QUOTE=peepin;48763527]I understand what you meant by that post; even the devs don't get royalties why should voice actors. The part that really pissed me off was this: Honestly, more than half the time producers don't know what will be needed until it is needed. Seriously there is a lot of trial and error when it comes to video game design. I'm sure voice actors get a basic outline as to what they might have to say. Or in what tone of voice.. But, knowing exactly what to expect is just unreasonable on all levels.[/QUOTE] I would say having an exact script for every line and whatnot is just simply too unreasonable. If however the company wouldn't even tell them what kind of character they would be voicing out then that would be pretty unfair to the voice actor. It honestly all depends on how the company does things. Some will have a coordinated plan on what is to be expected from the voice actors and others like to improvise along the way. I wish that everyone who works on a game would get a little cut of the profits but from a business perspective it doesn't make much sense. It's not as if they don't pay you at all, they're obviously and hopefully paying what is fairly deserved for your time but dishing out extra money just because the game was successful is going a little too far. I would say the game developers should be the first to get anything extra before anyone else.

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;48764009]Actors get royalties, even for animated films that only require voice work. For some reason voice actors aren't treated as "real actors" even though they do the same thing.[/QUOTE] They really don't. While I think that treaing voice actors not as real actors is positively absurd, it's a bit ridiculous to imply voice acting is the same as regular acting. It's a whole other realm.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48764273]They really don't. While I think that treaing voice actors not as real actors is positively absurd, it's a bit ridiculous to imply voice acting is the same as regular acting. It's a whole other realm.[/QUOTE] THing is, for most voice actors now, they do the movements and the voice acting in skin tight suits. It makes it easier not only to animate to make sure things are connected well. LA Noire was a prime example of just how badly things could go if you didn't give actors both control of the bodies and facial movements at the same time.

Don't forget that sometimes voice actors can change how we see character as a whole (like, deep Batman voice opposed to light voice of Bruce Wayne was an idea of Kevin Conroy, that is now established as canon, and a fiasco with Destiny and Dinklage)

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48764273]They really don't. While I think that treaing voice actors not as real actors is positively absurd, it's a bit ridiculous to imply voice acting is the same as regular acting. It's a whole other realm.[/QUOTE] As a performer that's a pretty ignorant thing to say. Sure it's a different kind of acting, but it's still acting. But what I meant is part of the problem they're talking about is that lately VAs are expected to do motion capture [i]as well as[/i] voice overs, but they're still only being paid as voice actors. So even though they are doing exactly what a screen actor does, they're still being treated as second class citizens.

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;48764009]Actors get royalties, even for animated films that only require voice work. For some reason voice actors aren't treated as "real actors" even though they do the same thing.[/QUOTE] Yes but why should they get royalties over the people who put in far more work and actually make the games? Thats the only reason I have 0 sympathy for these VAs right now because they are wanting god damn royalties over devs who get fuck all. That and shitty people like Wil Weaton and Ashely Burch leading the charge.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;48766000]Yes but why should they get royalties over the people who put in far more work and actually make the games? Thats the only reason I have 0 sympathy for these VAs right now because they are wanting god damn royalties over devs who get fuck all. That and shitty people like Wil Weaton and Ashely Burch leading the charge.[/QUOTE] Devs used to get royalties. Look at what happened to Obsidian; they went under because they didn't get royalties due to a contract that said they needed to get a specific metacritic score to get their royalties. Both devs and VAs should get royalties in my opinion. I'm going to chip in to the rest of this discussion about VAs because I personally believe that in many ways they are equivalent to "normal actors" and in other ways surpass them. A good voice actor can completely change how a character is perceived by players, and doing so positively requires a lot of experience and work. Not only that, but to actually give a character life without physical expression is an art in and of itself.

If you get hired to do a certain job for a certain sum, why would you later get royalties? It's kinda confusing to me. Unless of course you agree to do cheap now+royalties. But if it's full price, then what's that about royalties? Just ask for price that is fair so you don't need royalties. Like, if I get hired to write a program or make a 3d model for someone, they pay me, I make the thing, give it to them and that's all. What sort of royalties are we even talking about here?

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;48765947]As a performer that's a pretty ignorant thing to say. Sure it's a different kind of acting, but it's still acting. But what I meant is part of the problem they're talking about is that lately VAs are expected to do motion capture [i]as well as[/i] voice overs, but they're still only being paid as voice actors. So even though they are doing exactly what a screen actor does, they're still being treated as second class citizens.[/QUOTE] As a performer, no it's not. In fact, you summerized what I said, just a bit differently. They said "it's a same thing," when it isn't. It's acting, it's very real acting, but it's different. Motion capture, however, does add another degree of responsibility that they should be paid for. It may be different from stage acting or screen acting, but that doesn't mean they should be compensated any less for their work.

[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;48766090]Devs used to get royalties. Look at what happened to Obsidian; they went under because they didn't get royalties due to a contract that said they needed to get a specific metacritic score to get their royalties. Both devs and VAs should get royalties in my opinion. I'm going to chip in to the rest of this discussion about VAs because I personally believe that in many ways they are equivalent to "normal actors" and in other ways surpass them. A good voice actor can completely change how a character is perceived by players, and doing so positively requires a lot of experience and work. Not only that, but to actually give a character life without physical expression is an art in and of itself.[/QUOTE] They both should, devs first imo, but still, sometimes its unrealistic. Demanding for them is just annoying, it can honestly be unrealistic and just not possible depending on the company and money situation. Even if its in a good money situation it might not be able to do royalties because it could fuck a lot of shit up.

I'm actaully surprised that VA's get shit treatment. If animated shows, video games, and voice overs taught us anything, is that they should get as much recognition and pay as the rest of the actors in the intustry. Frank Welker has been in the business since 1969 as Fred Jones from Scooby Doo, Megatron from Transformers in 1984, and [B]countless[/B] monsters, pets, and aliens since then. He's #2 in the of top-grossing people in acting and technical roles for movies alone that I'm amazed that he doesn't live in a fucking [I]castle[/I] at this point.

[QUOTE=richard9311;48763143]Things are pretty shit for most people who work. Anything that can improve conditions for them, even if its just for voice actors, would be really welcomed.[/QUOTE] Seems like most people are fucked either way imo. Cut costs, pay less, hire less people, never make the workers sign in on a full contract...

Things voice actors deserve: Working conditions conducive to ensuring that their health doesn't decline and that the thing they use to make money doesn't get destroyed. Things voice actors do not deserve: Anything they don't agree to in the contract they willingly enter into in return for the wage they agree to.

For the vast majority of games, voice acting is something which improves the experience but doesn't make the experience. Voice acting must be supported by a solid core game in order to succeed, and further the majority of games would not suffer greatly if voice acting was replaced with dialog as text. The less the game relies on or emphasize the story, the more true this is.

Royalties are out of the question, but hazard pay sites am reasonable. But even then, I don't consider VA to be necessary to my video game experience.

They're only asking for royalties if the game sells a shit ton. The GTA voice actors haven't got anything after their game did fairly well. That's not unreasonable, neither is the health and safety stuff. If the gaming industry wants to be looked at as a serious entertainment business it needs to treat it's actors like one. "They're not the most important part" is not an argument for not treating them unfairly. [editline]27th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;48766209]If you get hired to do a certain job for a certain sum, why would you later get royalties? It's kinda confusing to me. Unless of course you agree to do cheap now+royalties. But if it's full price, then what's that about royalties? Just ask for price that is fair so you don't need royalties. Like, if I get hired to write a program or make a 3d model for someone, they pay me, I make the thing, give it to them and that's all. What sort of royalties are we even talking about here?[/QUOTE] I can't remember the exact figure. But I think it was something like; if a game makes over $2 million (after making back it's own budget) then actors should get a cut too. In addition to the people who already are. An actor in a film gets a royalty payment every time it's shown on TV, a musician gets a payment every time a song is played on the radio and author gets a payment after a certain number of books are sold. Why should only people don't certain jobs at Rockstar get to taste that money? It's just a case of what's fair.