The All American canal. Now that we covered the Arizona bill, help me with this
72 replies, posted
I know i just made the Arizona Bill thread and got kinda shot down. but hey i will admit when I'm wrong or miss informed (i was just wrong)
however this is similar but different and i want to hear what Facepunch thinks:
The All American canal
Wikipedia:The All-American Canal is an aqueduct that conveys water of the Colorado River into the Imperial Valley in California. It is the valley's only water source, and replaced the Alamo Canal, which was located mostly in Mexico. The All-American Canal provides drinking water for nine cities and irrigates over 500,000 acres (200,000 ha). It is the largest irrigation canal in the world [1], carrying up to 26,155 cubic feet per second
now the problem with this canal is that it is right on the boarder with Mexico
in addition it is largely unguarded and only about 200 ft across
as a result this canal has become a prime crossing point for illegals
now the problem with this is the water is very cold, moves about 8 ft a second and each side is slick concrete. this makes it a death trap for anyone crossing. there have been about 850 found dead from attempting to cross the canal.
in response warning signs have been placed on each side of the canal to let people know that swimming in the river is prohibited and is very dangerous
now people are pushing for safety ladders and flotation buoys to be placed periodically.
normally i would be on the fence about this cause these are human lives but when you disregard safety signs to do something illegal to get somewhere illegal, in my opinion you are taking you life into you own hands.
and now people want to [I]help[/I] illegal immigrants get into the country?
now if they said "put fences on each side" or "escape ladders and buoys only on the Mexican side" that would make sense
again i am confused and wish Facepunch could help me out
Illegal immigrants aren't terrorists or criminals, they're desperate people and their families trying to escape poverty and drug war. Their lives are as important as everyone else's, desperation doesn't make them subhuman. I find some illegal immigrants picking strawberries for a few bucks a day to be a lot easier on my conscience than leaving them to drown.
Stop treating them like rapists and drug dealers, trying to make your life better by relocating to a nation in which 99% of people are originally immigrants is not the babykilling crime against humanity those dumb rednecks in Arizona like to paint it as.
Rate me boxes because I don't think Mexicans deserve horrible death for setting foot on land that only all-American white people deserve.
generally, you don't slip in and waddle across. you jump as far as you can, and if it moves 8ft a second then you're fucked if it's on the side you jumped from.
I pretty much agree with you. Anyone willing to do that when there are signs telling them not to deserve their fate, whatever it may be.
Not that I think illegal immigrants deserve to drown. They are just desperate. This is more of a problem with where they decide to cross the border. There is plenty of unguarded fence to jump.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723707]Illegal immigrants aren't terrorists or criminals, they're desperate people and their families trying to escape poverty and drug war. Their lives are as important as everyone else's, desperation doesn't make them subhuman. I find some illegal immigrants picking strawberries for a few bucks a day to be a lot easier on my conscience than leaving them to drown.
Stop treating them like rapists and drug dealers, trying to make your life better by relocating to a nation in which 99% of people are originally immigrants is not the babykilling crime against humanity those dumb rednecks in Arizona like to paint it as.
Rate me boxes because I don't think Mexicans deserve horrible death for setting foot on land that only all-American white people deserve.[/QUOTE]
but why should we spend money to try to stop someone who is trying to do something illegal and they kill themselves in the process, and yeah they are criminals if they try to break a law
There is nothing wrong with illegal immigrants. They aren't "stealing our jobs". If you, in fact, pick fruit and do construction work for under minimum wage, you are indeed pretty stupid. Don't ruin the lives of some poor people from Mexico just beacuse your too ignorant to care.
If we are going to have life safety equipment there, then they should have hot air balloons to catch me if I fall off of the Grand Canyon.
They made the choice to cross illegally, they will soon learn what the signs and posts were trying to tell them.
It isnt in the hands of the United States to save the lives of obviously unintelligent decision makers entering illegally.
[QUOTE=DarkendSky;21723798]There is nothing wrong with illegal immigrants. They aren't "stealing our jobs". If you, in fact, pick fruit and do construction work for under minimum wage, you are indeed pretty stupid. Don't ruin the lives of some poor people from Mexico just beacuse your too ignorant to care.[/QUOTE]
the only thing wrong with them is that they are illegal, and if i was one of the 4.6%of Americans unemployed then i wouldn't mind getting a job for minimum wage
[QUOTE=ceaajagd;21723793]but why should we spend money to try to stop someone who is trying to do something illegal and they kill themselves in the process, and yeah they are criminals if they try to break a law[/QUOTE]
A law that is a nonviolent crime and deprives nobody of property.
If some jackass gets stuck in a chimney trying to break into a house and calls for help, do the cops say "No, fuck you, choke and die because you're breaking the law"? Uh, no, they go help the guy anyway because he's human to and it's the right thing to do. Nobody should have to die because they're trying to get to someplace where they have a shot at a subsistence level wage and drug dealers aren't shooting at them. Put some lines and buoys in the canal to save 850 people from drowning every year, and you can always arrest them on the other side and send them back to Mexico in one piece. Stop treating them like they're somehow less human than the aforementioned jackass in the chimney.
[QUOTE=ceaajagd;21723861]the only thing wrong with them is that they are illegal, and if i was one of the 4.6%of Americans unemployed then i wouldn't mind getting a job for minimum wage[/QUOTE]
I agree. I dont see why people dont understand that Americans come first in AMERICA, not the (although sad) poor illegal immigrants.
[QUOTE=DarkendSky;21723798]There is nothing wrong with illegal immigrants. They aren't "stealing our jobs". If you, in fact, pick fruit and do construction work for under minimum wage, you are indeed pretty stupid. Don't ruin the lives of some poor people from Mexico just beacuse your too ignorant to care.[/QUOTE]
Legal citizens are federally entitled to minimum wage, so no citizens would be holding those jobs anyway. The whole problem of illegal immigration is blown way out of proportion by xenophobic rednecks who get scared when they hear people chattering in Spanish at the checkout line at the Wal-Mart.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723707]Illegal immigrants aren't terrorists or criminals, they're desperate people and their families trying to escape poverty and drug war. Their lives are as important as everyone else's, desperation doesn't make them subhuman. I find some illegal immigrants picking strawberries for a few bucks a day to be a lot easier on my conscience than leaving them to drown.
Stop treating them like rapists and drug dealers, trying to make your life better by relocating to a nation in which 99% of people are originally immigrants is not the babykilling crime against humanity those dumb rednecks in Arizona like to paint it as.
Rate me boxes because I don't think Mexicans deserve horrible death for setting foot on land that only all-American white people deserve.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit. Someone on FP has a conscience? Can we be friends?
I've said it in plenty of other threads, if they want to make it to America, do it legally. My Grandpa started somewhere in Mexico city with NOTHING, went through the nationalization process, and then became a dentist in America after working fields for 10 years.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723912]A law that is a nonviolent crime and deprives nobody of property.
If some jackass gets stuck in a chimney trying to break into a house and calls for help, do the cops say "No, fuck you, choke and die because you're breaking the law"? Uh, no, they go help the guy anyway because he's human to and it's the right thing to do. Nobody should have to die because they're trying to get to someplace where they have a shot at a subsistence level wage and drug dealers aren't shooting at them. Put some lines and buoys in the canal to save 850 people from drowning every year, and you can always arrest them on the other side and send them back to Mexico in one piece. Stop treating them like they're somehow less human than the aforementioned jackass in the chimney.[/QUOTE]
The difference is that that criminal (although breaking the law) still falls under the US Justice System, while the illegals DO NOT. While in an ideal world saving helpless people would be good, our world doesnt function that way.
If people want to help, then let some independant group do it, the US Government has no obligation.
[QUOTE=CobraUnit;21723923]I agree. I dont see why people dont understand that Americans come first in AMERICA, not the (although sad) poor illegal immigrants.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://donthavekids.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/redneck.jpg[/img]
AMURICANS COME FIRST IN [b]AMERICA[/b]
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723978][img]http://donthavekids.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/redneck.jpg[/img]
AMURICANS COME FIRST IN [b]AMERICA[/b][/QUOTE]
A country should take care of its citizens first, all the others second.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723912]A law that is a nonviolent crime and deprives nobody of property.
If some jackass gets stuck in a chimney trying to break into a house and calls for help, do the cops say "No, fuck you, choke and die because you're breaking the law"? Uh, no, they go help the guy anyway because he's human to and it's the right thing to do. Nobody should have to die because they're trying to get to someplace where they have a shot at a subsistence level wage and drug dealers aren't shooting at them. Put some lines and buoys in the canal to save 850 people from drowning every year, and you can always arrest them on the other side and send them back to Mexico in one piece. Stop treating them like they're somehow less human than the aforementioned jackass in the chimney.[/QUOTE]
hey, if what we did was catch them in the act and send them back home then fine but no we don't (that's unrealistic anyway). also a better analogy would be that criminals are found dead in chimneys so as a solution we make a law to have criminal safe chimneys that let the criminals into our homes safely
[QUOTE=CobraUnit;21723969]The difference is that that criminal (although breaking the law) still falls under the US Justice System, while the illegals DO NOT. While in an ideal world saving helpless people would be good, our world doesnt function that way.[/QUOTE]
The fact that they don't fall under the US Justice System in no way justifies leaving them to die in a river. 850 people a year is a drop in the bucket compared to overall immigrant traffic, the country is not going to be destroyed because for once we do the morally decent thing as human beings.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723978][img]http://donthavekids.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/redneck.jpg[/img]
AMURICANS COME FIRST IN [b]AMERICA[/b][/QUOTE]
Its fucking true though! You didnt see us in World War II evacuating everyone in Berlin except Nazis before we bombed the hell out of it did you? You can throw your stupid ass pictures of redneck hicks all you want, but its the cold hard truth.
[QUOTE=ceaajagd;21724009]hey, if what we did was catch them in the act and send them back home then fine but no we don't (that's unrealistic anyway). also a better analogy would be that criminals are found dead in chimneys so as a solution we make a law to have criminal safe chimneys that let the criminals into our homes safely[/QUOTE]
what the hell i don't even
Illegals are human beings who, if they're that desperate and willing to risk their life to get here, deserve at least the proposed safety additions.
If you say no to these, then you're a horrible person who is partially responsible for their deaths.
And I support illegal immigration. Not just say allow them, I full-out support. America's immigration system is unjust, overly tough, and very limited. I am proud to say that I support helping my fellow human beings- something that comes before borders and laws- by allowing those in need a better life in a greedy nation that boasts its greatness but turns away those who wish to share it.
[QUOTE=CobraUnit;21724019]Its fucking true though! You didnt see us in World War II evacuating everyone in Berlin except Nazis before we bombed the hell out of it did you? You can through your stuppid ass pictures of redneck hicks all you want, but its the cold hard truth.[/QUOTE]
I do seem to recall right after the war, even in the face of crushing national debt, we still spent billions and billions of dollars rebuilding the very cities we had just finished burning to the ground. :colbert:
And damnit don't try to take my free speech right to use amusing redneck pictures to illustrate when I think a statement is nationalistic garbage.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21724021]what the hell i don't even[/QUOTE]
:raise: what do you mean by this comment
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21724045]I do seem to recall right after the war, even in the face of crushing national debt, we still spent billions and billions of dollars rebuilding the very cities we had just finished burning to the ground. :colbert:
And damnit don't try to take my free speech right to use amusing redneck pictures to illustrate when I think a statement is nationalistic garbage.[/QUOTE]
Thats true, but did we allow all the Germans to come live in the States because we felt bad? Sure many came, but hundreds of thousands came here legally through Ellis Island. By setting up pretty much safe passage to the US by creating "safety measures", we are just inviting them in. Dont tell me they wont try again if they fail, because you know they will.
[editline]06:54PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21724045]
And damnit don't try to take my free speech right to use amusing redneck pictures to illustrate when I think a statement is nationalistic garbage.[/QUOTE]
I'll admit I laughed at that though.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723978][img]http://donthavekids.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/redneck.jpg[/img]
AMURICANS COME FIRST IN [b]AMERICA[/b][/QUOTE]
Because all Americans look like that.
[QUOTE=CobraUnit;21724097]Thats true, but did we allow all the Germans to come live in the States because we felt bad? Sure many came, but hundreds of thousands came here legally through Ellis Island. By setting up pretty much safe passage to the US by creating "safety measures", we are just inviting them in. Dont tell me they wont try again if they fail, because you know they will.[/QUOTE]
Back then we also had much less stringent immigration laws that actually gave unskilled people will no American relatives a shot at citizenship. Under the current system even the best candidates take five or more years to achieve citizenship, and these people are desperate now. The whole system needs reform so that risking your life swimming a deadly fast river isn't necessary.
In the meantime, some small measures to protect human life isn't "inviting them in". We're not building a bloody superhighway here.
[editline]07:56PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=SkinkYEA;21724117]Because all Americans look like that.[/QUOTE]
In southern Indiana they do.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21724150]Back then we also had much less stringent immigration laws that actually gave unskilled people will no American relatives a shot at citizenship. Under the current system even the best candidates take five or more years to achieve citizenship, and these people are desperate now. The whole system needs reform so that risking your life swimming a deadly fast river isn't necessary.
In the meantime, some small measures to protect human life isn't "inviting them in". We're not building a bloody superhighway here.
[/QUOTE]
Back then America was still developing, now America is fully developed and in no direct need of crazy amounts of labor. The same principle would apply to a glass of water, you can fill up the glass fast at first, but towards the end, you need to slow it down so that it doesnt overflow. Immigrants are naturally going to flock to Urban areas and in a time like now when our economy cant handle more unemployed people leaching off of welfare, there is no real want nor need for a ridiculous amount of people.
People in other countries (who even say they hate America) would jump on the opportunity if it were made easier to enter.
Super highway no but you do realize the American Government is trying to ELIMINATE illegal immigration as a problem, and by adding life perservers ensures potential immigrants to give it a shot.
if we let people immigrate with no regulation then there would be a huge economic collapse ie we have these laws for a reason
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;21723707]Illegal immigrants aren't terrorists or criminals, they're desperate people and their families trying to escape poverty and drug war.[/QUOTE]
That's quite ignorant, considering most drug crime in California is from illegal Mexicans.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;21723996]A country should take care of its citizens first, all the others second.[/QUOTE]
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal bitch.
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