France mandates new buildings have green roofs, solar panels
23 replies, posted
[quote]Rooftops on new buildings built in commercial zones in France must either be partially covered in plants or solar panels, according to a law approved on Thursday.
Green roofs help reduce the amount of energy needed to heat a building in winter and cool it in summer. They also retain rainwater, thus helping reduce problems with runoff, while favoring biodiversity and giving birds a place to nest in the urban jungle, ecologists say.
The law approved by parliament was more limited in scope than initial calls by French environmental activists to make green roofs that cover the entire surface mandatory on all new buildings.
The Socialist government convinced activists to limit the scope of the law to commercial buildings.[/quote]
[url]http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/20/new-french-law-calls-for-green-roofs-solar-panels.html[/url]
i remember seeing videos of "What America will be like maybe in (X time)" with solar panels and plant roofs
It's funny because it's probably to happen FAR after other countries do it first
[QUOTE=J!NX;47363840]i remember seeing videos of "What America will be like maybe in (X time)" with solar panels and plant roofs
It's funny because it's probably to happen FAR after other countries do it first[/QUOTE]
When it comes to infrastructure projects and public transport I feel like America is decades behind.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;47363942]When it comes to infrastructure projects and public transport I feel like America is decades behind.[/QUOTE]
America is in the past when it comes to this stuff, generally, and it's pretty sad to see.
[editline]20th March 2015[/editline]
this IS the future. Solar roofs for cheap. A staircase leading up to your own little roof farm. It's what we need to get doing.
This seems to be pretty big news to be honest. An entire country that mandates green roofs.
[QUOTE=maurits150;47364119]This seems to be pretty big news to be honest. An entire country that mandates green roofs.[/QUOTE]
*Only on commercial buildings
But still, it's pretty great.
are there any drawbacks worth speaking of when it comes to solar panels aside from some initial higher costs?
[QUOTE=GreenLeaf;47364255]are there any drawbacks worth speaking of when it comes to solar panels aside from some initial higher costs?[/QUOTE]
Maintenance, maybe? Solar panels are pretty much a "set it and forget it" deal.
Some types degrade faster than others, like Cadmium Telluride, but they make up for it in higher energy output over their lifespan and a lower entry cost. Really, it's just a balancing act of trying to use a panel powerful enough to offset your energy costs but stable enough to last five or six years with no major degradation.
Solar panels will be what most companies use. The added engineering and building costs associated with making sure a roof that is supposed to retain moisture for plants to grow isn't affected by the extra weight of the garden and the constant moisture working at the structure of the roof is likely to be much higher than just getting some solar panels and putting them up there.
[QUOTE=GreenLeaf;47364255]are there any drawbacks worth speaking of when it comes to solar panels aside from some initial higher costs?[/QUOTE]
Their laughable efficiency, for one. They currently fall between 5 and 10 percent, that is, the vast majority of the light that hits them doesn't actually make any electricity. These things aren't going to be powering businesses, though they will kick a few hundred watts in on sunny days to help lower power bills. Oh, and there's also the whole 'They don't work at all during the night and don't hardly produce enough to warrant being there on cloudy days' issues that all photovoltaic panels face. I have a feeling they put the photovoltaic panel option into the law simply to appease businesses, since as mentioned earlier it's easier and cheaper to engineer the building for them(Run one or two circuits up there to accept their output, maybe put in a battery bank, done) than it is to engineer it for a lawn. Especially if they're mandating retrofits to existing businesses.
I'd honestly go with the plants. We need CO2 scrubbing far more than we need solar panels everywhere, plus grasses are pretty much plant-and-forget. In a climate such as what France is in you need only sod it once and let nature do its thing up there. Yeah, yeah, itt'l look wild and untamed, but it's a fire-and-forget method to combat some of the CO2 that's floating up there from the road in front of the business. It won't totally offset the CO2 floating off that roadway, but every blade of grass helps.
[QUOTE=TestECull;47365084]Their laughable efficiency, for one. They currently fall between 5 and 10 percent, that is, the vast majority of the light that hits them doesn't actually make any electricity. These things aren't going to be powering businesses, though they will kick a few hundred watts in on sunny days to help lower power bills. Oh, and there's also the whole 'They don't work at all during the night and don't hardly produce enough to warrant being there on cloudy days' issues that all photovoltaic panels face. I have a feeling they put the photovoltaic panel option into the law simply to appease businesses, since as mentioned earlier it's easier and cheaper to engineer the building for them(Run one or two circuits up there to accept their output, maybe put in a battery bank, done) than it is to engineer it for a lawn. Especially if they're mandating retrofits to existing businesses.
I'd honestly go with the plants. We need CO2 scrubbing far more than we need solar panels everywhere, plus grasses are pretty much plant-and-forget. In a climate such as what France is in you need only sod it once and let nature do its thing up there. Yeah, yeah, itt'l look wild and untamed, but it's a fire-and-forget method to combat some of the CO2 that's floating up there from the road in front of the business. It won't totally offset the CO2 floating off that roadway, but every blade of grass helps.[/QUOTE]
"a few hundred watts" Yeah, for one that you set up on your shed.
You get a kilowatt per 100 sq feet on average, which is actually a small area, it is the size of the floor of the average bedroom.
A 40"X 66" panel can provide 260 watts and run for 25 years before droping to 80% effeciency, with it's base coefficient being 15.5%. The 260 watt model being [URL="http://www.solarworld-usa.com/products-and-services/sunmodule-solar-panels"]this companies[/URL] lowest one, with 285 watt and 17% efficiency being their highest.
Another company, similar stats: [url]http://www.axitecsolar.us/solarmodule-axipower-60-cells-poly.html[/url] [url]http://www.axitecsolar.us/solarmodule-axipremium-60-cells-mono.html[/url]
Solar panels aren't as shitty as they used to be.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;47363942]When it comes to infrastructure projects and public transport I feel like America is decades behind.[/QUOTE]
We are but I feel its a little bit harder because everything is so much more spread out than some countries in Europe.
[QUOTE=TestECull;47365084]Their laughable efficiency, for one. They currently fall between 5 and 10 percent, that is, the vast majority of the light that hits them doesn't actually make any electricity. These things aren't going to be powering businesses, though they will kick a few hundred watts in on sunny days to help lower power bills. Oh, and there's also the whole 'They don't work at all during the night and don't hardly produce enough to warrant being there on cloudy days' issues that all photovoltaic panels face. I have a feeling they put the photovoltaic panel option into the law simply to appease businesses, since as mentioned earlier it's easier and cheaper to engineer the building for them(Run one or two circuits up there to accept their output, maybe put in a battery bank, done) than it is to engineer it for a lawn. Especially if they're mandating retrofits to existing businesses.
I'd honestly go with the plants. We need CO2 scrubbing far more than we need solar panels everywhere, plus grasses are pretty much plant-and-forget. In a climate such as what France is in you need only sod it once and let nature do its thing up there. Yeah, yeah, itt'l look wild and untamed, but it's a fire-and-forget method to combat some of the CO2 that's floating up there from the road in front of the business. It won't totally offset the CO2 floating off that roadway, but every blade of grass helps.[/QUOTE]
Are you absolutely sure you aren't just Jeremy Clarkson? Because you always sound exactly like him.
[editline]20th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=deadoon;47365139]"a few hundred watts" Yeah, for one that you set up on your shed.
You get a kilowatt per 100 sq feet on average, which is actually a small area, it is the size of the floor of the average bedroom.
A 40"X 66" panel can provide 260 watts and run for 25 years before droping to 80% effeciency, with it's base coefficient being 15.5%. The 260 watt model being [URL="http://www.solarworld-usa.com/products-and-services/sunmodule-solar-panels"]this companies[/URL] lowest one, with 285 watt and 17% efficiency being their highest.
Another company, similar stats: [URL]http://www.axitecsolar.us/solarmodule-axipower-60-cells-poly.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.axitecsolar.us/solarmodule-axipremium-60-cells-mono.html[/URL]
Solar panels aren't as shitty as they used to be.[/QUOTE]
And this is why, if I ever build a house, the roof is going to have solar panels, and the garage is going to have a battery bank. Throw in some geothermal for climate control, a natural gas backup generator, and you really don't have to worry about energy bills.
Granted, by that time, they'll be more efficient. We are making leaps and bounds in solar panel technology right now, especially with graphene microfilms and compounding substrates.
[QUOTE=GreenLeaf;47364255]are there any drawbacks worth speaking of when it comes to solar panels aside from some initial higher costs?[/QUOTE]
There's problems with Maintenance and actually finding decent solar panels.
Since the demand for panels grew slightly, China decided to lose its shit over it once again and dumped a nuclear bomb on the offer by shitting out tons of panels on the market, which kicked a lot of other companies into bankruptcy because they couldn't compete with how much panels China was churning out. Not even sure of the quality, but I assume cheap mass produced solar panels aren't going to be that good.
If this law goes through we're likely to see another boost like this meaning a lot of companies will buy the cheapest possible shit on the market and cover their roofs with panels that will risk to have costed more energy to build than they ever will produce.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47364139]*Only on commercial buildings
But still, it's pretty great.[/QUOTE]
Still that's like gotta be 70% of new construction anywhere, it'll make a huge dent if they stick to it, and it will drive solar costs down even further
Now if only we here in the states would get off our asses and see what benefit this could have and how much of a boon it would be to everyone
[editline]21st March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=GreenLeaf;47364255]are there any drawbacks worth speaking of when it comes to solar panels aside from some initial higher costs?[/QUOTE]
If you have an east/west facing slope on your roof or live at higher latitudes its not really going to help, also if you have any sort of tree cover, though the university of Toronto is actually doing research on solar power in the colder regions and has some interesting findings like how to optimize angle in the winter
Its still not exactly practical when you live in regions with tons of snow but that's not a fault of the panels that's just lack of focus, most of the stuff you see is in like Spain, California, or out west not where the weather really is a problem
Oh also depending on your roofs age and the building, the roof might need to be reinforced which is an added headache because that will require a contractor and permits
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47365894]There's problems with Maintenance and actually finding decent solar panels.
Since the demand for panels grew slightly, China decided to lose its shit over it once again and dumped a nuclear bomb on the offer by shitting out tons of panels on the market, which kicked a lot of other companies into bankruptcy because they couldn't compete with how much panels China was churning out. Not even sure of the quality, but I assume cheap mass produced solar panels aren't going to be that good.
If this law goes through we're likely to see another boost like this meaning a lot of companies will buy the cheapest possible shit on the market and cover their roofs with panels that will risk to have costed more energy to build than they ever will produce.[/QUOTE]
From what I have found, the Chinese ones have around the same efficiency but only around 1/2 the lifespan for the 80% new efficiency mark.
Watch as climate change deniers desperately search for [I]some[/I] reason why this could potentially maybe be a bad thing.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47366996]Watch as climate change deniers desperately search for [I]some[/I] reason why this could potentially maybe be a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
It was instituted by a socialist government; that's all the reason they need.
Hell, even if it isn't your standard grade of solar panels. Even solar heating to replace electric/gas heating for water/etc would put a huge dent in costs, etc.
[QUOTE=deadoon;47365139]"a few hundred watts" Yeah, for one that you set up on your shed.
You get a kilowatt per 100 sq feet on average, which is actually a small area, it is the size of the floor of the average bedroom.
A 40"X 66" panel can provide 260 watts and run for 25 years before droping to 80% effeciency, with it's base coefficient being 15.5%. The 260 watt model being [URL="http://www.solarworld-usa.com/products-and-services/sunmodule-solar-panels"]this companies[/URL] lowest one, with 285 watt and 17% efficiency being their highest.
Another company, similar stats: [url]http://www.axitecsolar.us/solarmodule-axipower-60-cells-poly.html[/url] [url]http://www.axitecsolar.us/solarmodule-axipremium-60-cells-mono.html[/url]
Solar panels aren't as shitty as they used to be.[/QUOTE]
Still doesn't make them worth putting up. Call me when they're able to produce meaningful amounts of power using naught but moonlight
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47367544]It was instituted by a socialist government; that's all the reason they need.[/QUOTE]
Filthy fucking socialists, being all helpful to one another and shit.
[editline]21st March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;47367620]Hell, even if it isn't your standard grade of solar panels. Even solar heating to replace electric/gas heating for water/etc would put a huge dent in costs, etc.[/QUOTE]
Those are a nightmare to maintain though. There used to be hundreds of homes in my town that had solar heating, but slowly and surely they've been coming down. Ensuring the pipes don't burst and ensuring adequate storage, algae control, and a slew of other problems makes it a turn-off to the average consumer, they'd much rather have a "turn on, set temp, done" approach like a traditional furnace or water-heater.
[QUOTE=TestECull;47367645]Call me when they're able to produce meaningful amounts of power[/QUOTE]
How about enough to power an entire house with enough juice left in the batteries to hold over through the night?
[QUOTE=deadoon;47366213]From what I have found, the Chinese ones have around the same efficiency but only around 1/2 the lifespan for the 80% new efficiency mark.[/QUOTE]
So in the long run they're still detrimental because changing them will cost a lot and most companies will likely not bother.
I also don’t think that we should be so pessimistic. Step by step we make a progress and what is important people’s mentality is changing and now they are not so suspicious about solar panels in general. Of course we are far from [URL="http://solarpanelscompany.com/blog/solar-cities/"]building solar cities[/URL], though there are quite many owners, who share their positive experience and it is great. Of course, we all want to get some support and to create a better place for living.
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