Libyan Troops Go Wild in England, Claim Ignorance of law and culture - Polidicks

[url]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/04/libyan-troops-go-wild-in-england.html[/url] [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2820269/Government-ends-training-Libyan-soldiers-UK-five-face-court-today-charged-sex-attacks-men-women.html[/url] [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2821967/Cameron-demands-military-brass-explain-unacceptable-breakdown-discipline-allowed-Libyan-cadets-rampage-outside-barracks.html[/url] [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-29923770[/url] [IMG]http://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/main_image_article_page/public/main-images/libya%20soldiers.jpg?itok=itueV4Qn[/IMG] [QUOTE]They were supposed to be the ‘new’ Libyan army. Instead they allegedly went crazy in the streets of Cambridge, assaulting strangers and brutally raping one young man. LONDON, England — The mantra that we need to train the forces of friendly governments and, for that matter, rebel groups, may have become a staple of every 21st century Western intervention in the Middle East, but sometimes things just go wrong. Really wrong. A new generation of the Libyan army was supposed to be trained in the West as part of international efforts to rebuild the country after the ouster of Muammar Gaddafi. Hand-picked recruits were invited to rural England for basic infantry and junior command training. On Tuesday, however, the British Ministry of Defense announced that all 300 trainees would be sent home early after a string of sexual assaults were perpetrated against the residents of Cambridgeshire, culminating in the alleged gang rape of a young man. Britain had pledged to train 2,000 Libyan recruits in total, but that commitment is now under review. Libyan Army cadets stationed at Bassingbourn barracks are alleged to have left the military camp on raids into the nearby university town of Cambridge, where a spate of sexual attacks were reported on the cobbled streets around the ancient college buildings. Two of the recruits have admitted to two sexual assaults and a bicycle theft in Market Square right at the center of the old town. They also pleaded guilty to threatening a police office. Another cadet, aged 18, has been charged with three sexual assaults. In total, police have investigated reports of 11 sexual assaults in central Cambridge within nine days. The most serious of those took place on Christ’s Piece, which is between Jesus and Emmanuel colleges, on Sunday October 26. A man in his early 20s allegedly was approached by two Libyan soldiers who subjected him to a serious sexual assault. Moktar Ali Saad Mahmoud, 33, and Ibrahim Abogutila, 22, were charged with rape on Monday. The allegations of sexual assault came after a third of the recruits had already withdrawn from the training program. It has been reported that up to 20 of the cadets have applied for asylum, although the Ministry of Defense and Home Office refuse to discuss those cases. "In total, police have investigated reports of 11sexualassaults in central Cambridge within nine days." Andrew Lansley, South Cambridgeshire’s Conservative MP, said he had initially supported the idea of welcoming the Libyans into the area but the behavior of those stationed at Bassingbourn had forced him to write to the MoD and call for an end to the program. "It is with regret that I must now say that it has not worked as we had hoped. It is clear that the stipulation that there was to be no unauthorized exit from the base has not been adhered to, and the consequences have been unacceptable. The purpose has not met its objectives, nor have MoD lived up to the promises made to us,” he told the Cambridge Evening News. "As I have today expressed to MoD, I now see no alternative but to terminate the contract and repatriate the trainees currently on the base. As this stands, no further groups of trainees could be brought here from Libya."[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]'THEY DIDN'T TELL US ABOUT BRITISH LAWS' One of the Libyan cadets due to be sent home blamed Britain yesterday for the difficulties at the Bassingbourn Barracks, claiming ‘they didn’t tell us the difference between what’s right and wrong here’. Omar Al-Mukhtar, who is not one of the men accused of the assaults, added: ‘They didn’t tell us about British law.’ He alleged that when trainees had been allowed out on accompanied visits of three hours a week they had been offered drugs, alcohol and sex for money. He did not say who by. Asked if the recruits had a message for the British government he said: ‘Not to take things too seriously.’ Speaking to the BBC, Mr Al-Mukhtar said he and other Libyans were proud to have graduated from the course at Bassingbourn, and were very happy with the training they received. But some cadets were unhappy with life on the base and how they had been treated, claiming ‘people’ were out to ruin the reputation of the Libyan army. Mr Al-Mukhtar alleged that when the cadets were arrested and their comrades went to ask authorities at the base what was happening, they were given no information. He said the cadets believed the arrested men were ‘unlawfully treated’, adding: ‘We blame the British authorities.’ He admitted there had been a ‘small fight’ between cadets but far more between Libyan and British soldiers.[/QUOTE] "i mean, fuck we can rape back home, we didn't knew we couldn't do that here!" :v:

what the flying fuck

wow the BBC article, that headline is actually inferior to first semester university journalism courses. a headline's meant to get to the crux of an issue, the most important part of what's happened. imagine if someone was murdered and the article was "man angry at arraignment"

Ignorance of law has pretty much been dismissed as an invalid claim in justice for thousands of years.

What the actual shit. Trying to think what would happen if my brigade (1000 personel est.) would go out for raids like this. But, biting the bullet, I can actually sort of understand the "they didn't tell us avout the laws." thing.

-heh took too long to type that one up-

[QUOTE=Radley;46423326]What the actual shit. Trying to think what would happen if my brigade (1000 personel est.) would go out for raids like this. But, biting the bullet, I can actually sort of understand the "they didn't tell us avout the laws." thing.[/QUOTE] "they didn't tell us about the laws." is not a valid claim. If it would be, every person going into a country would have to be taught the countries law. You are expected to have a basic understanding of the laws of the country you are going into.

[QUOTE=Radley;46423326]What the actual shit. Trying to think what would happen if my brigade (1000 personel est.) would go out for raids like this. But, biting the bullet, I can actually sort of understand the "they didn't tell us avout the laws." thing.[/QUOTE] What do you mean you understand it? These fools should already know that it's not okay to sexually assault people and steal stuff. No matter where you are in the world. You don't need to know the law to know that you just don't do those things.

no surprise really, i bet some of them will join isis.

To my understanding, isn't this stuff also outlawed in Libya? I mean probably not enforced as much since it's still in a shitty state but that's no fucking excuse. I'd understand if it was something like poor driving or petty littering but this is a whole other thing.

if they don't know about British law why dont the authorities teach them firsthand? they dont seriously hope to get away with acting like a bunch of fucking macaques in a friendly country? just lock them up and throw away the key

They knew what they were doing was wrong.

[QUOTE=Vasili;46423683]They knew what they were doing was wrong.[/QUOTE] Thats what happens when you invite a bunch of terrorists/rapistis/murderers/bandits/militias to your country.

[QUOTE=Midas22;46423325]Ignorance of law has pretty much been dismissed as an invalid claim in justice for thousands of years.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=kaukassus;46423368]"they didn't tell us about the laws." is not a valid claim. If it would be, every person going into a country would have to be taught the countries law. You are expected to have a basic understanding of the laws of the country you are going into.[/QUOTE] While what they were doing was obviously wrong and they should have known better, not knowing the local laws is a little different when you're in another country on government business and are not expected to have much contact with the general public. What I don't understand is how they did this stuff while on accompanied visits. Sounds like whoever was supposed to be watching them screwed up.

[QUOTE=Radley;46423326] But, biting the bullet, I can actually sort of understand the "they didn't tell us avout the laws." thing.[/QUOTE] Are you serious?

I'm willing to understand "we didn't know the law" up to a certain extent if it's something minor, let's say fruit growing on trees being legal to pick in country A and illegal to pick in country B. But this? Hell fucking no.

[QUOTE=Radley;46423326]What the actual shit. Trying to think what would happen if my brigade (1000 personel est.) would go out for raids like this. But, biting the bullet, I can actually sort of understand the "they didn't tell us avout the laws." thing.[/QUOTE] they raped someone, that pretty much throws all excuses into the bin. im not surprised we're seeing this kind of behavior from the Libyan army, they alongside most of the developing worlds armies are complete and utter shit horrible excuses for a modern military.

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;46423530]To my understanding, isn't this stuff also outlawed in Libya? I mean probably not enforced as much since it's still in a shitty state but that's no fucking excuse. I'd understand if it was something like poor driving or petty littering but this is a whole other thing.[/QUOTE] I imagine some of the laws in question are actually stricter there.

"But I didn't know raping was bad!" "But I didn't know cutting off an infidels head in another country was a bad idea!!" If this goes anywhere, laws really need to be changed.

Male on male rape in islamic culture is generally accepted as a means of disciplining the younger male or rewarding the older male. It's fairly odd that such a misogynistic culture encourages male rape, but the entire culture is fairly puzzling.

[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;46423838]they raped someone, that pretty much throws all excuses into the bin. im not surprised we're seeing this kind of behavior from the Libyan army, they alongside most of the developing worlds armies are complete and utter shit horrible excuses for a modern military.[/QUOTE] Here's an example of a developing nations military :v: [video=youtube;njQogZuz44Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njQogZuz44Y[/video]

thats so bullshit. I can understand not knowing laws about drugs or prostitutes but in what culture is it ok to rape random people..

Fucking train them in Libya if they can't master the concepts of another countries law, which they clearly understood but decided to take the piss and just go out and fuck about.

Ignorantia juris non excusat.

"Wow we're visiting a first world country with a stable government, guess that means we can rape everything" Apparently not being told about the laws means that there are no laws

"They didn't tell us we might be held responsible for breaking the law!"

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;46423819]Are you serious?[/QUOTE] To some degree it did make sense, they mentioned prostitutes and drug dealers they saw while they were out, so I could perfectly understand someone unfamiliar with the law thinking those were legal. Although to think there would be nothing wrong with sexual assault requires a deep lack of morality. Claiming ignorance of the law is no excuse for such conduct.

[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;46424671]Here's an example of a developing nations military :v: [video=youtube;njQogZuz44Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njQogZuz44Y[/video][/QUOTE] Fucking civilian militias in our country are better trained than that. At least they fucking know to [I]aim[/I] before they shoot!

[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;46424671]Here's an example of a developing nations military :v: [video=youtube;njQogZuz44Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njQogZuz44Y[/video][/QUOTE] I've never shot a gun before and I'm pretty sure I can aim better than those guys

[QUOTE=Battledrobe;46423624]if they don't know about British law why dont the authorities teach them firsthand? they dont seriously hope to get away with acting like a bunch of fucking macaques in a friendly country? just lock them up and throw away the key[/QUOTE] It wouldn't matter if they were taught. No one person knows all the laws of a single country on this planet, and ignorance of the law SHOULD be a valid claim these days there are so many. But there's a sort of unspoken universal law that everyone should follow, which is 'Don't be a cunt'. These guys need to be taught that