Spoon in underwear saves youths from forced marriages - Polidicks

[quote]"[B]if they don't know exactly when it may happen or if it's going to happen, we advise them to put a spoon in their underwear[/B]," said Natasha Rattu, Karma Nirvana's operations manager.[/quote] [url]http://uk.news.yahoo.com/spoon-underwear-saving-youths-forced-marriage-030310061.html[/url] [quote]As Britain puts airport staff on alert to spot potential victims of forced marriage, one campaigning group says the trick of putting a spoon in their underwear has saved some youngsters from a forced union in their South Asian ancestral homelands. The concealed spoon sets off the metal detector at the airport in Britain and the teenagers can be taken away from their parents to be searched -- a last chance to escape a largely hidden practice wrecking the lives of unknown thousands of British youths. The British school summer holidays, now well under way, mark a peak in reports of young people -- typically girls aged 15 and 16 -- being taken abroad on "holiday", for a marriage without consent, the government says.[/quote]

Why do people force these kinds of marriages?

Oh, I thought it was going to be the other type of spoon.

Wait, a TSA type thing actually doing good? Is this heaven or hell?

[QUOTE=bdd458;41858683]Wait, a TSA type thing actually doing good? Is this heaven or hell?[/QUOTE] this just in: security keeps some people secure next up: is the illuminati really mind controlling your pets through chlorine in the water?

[QUOTE=bdd458;41858683]Wait, a TSA type thing actually doing good? Is this heaven or hell?[/QUOTE] Valhalla

[QUOTE=007JamesBond007;41858668]Why do people force these kinds of marriages?[/QUOTE] Might be dowry related? Possibly. Otherwise religious/cultural.

[QUOTE=Bobie;41858718]this just in: security keeps some people secure[/quote] Last time I took a flight was about 11 years ago, my youngest brother was 13 months old and the TSA took him away to a room because of his blue suede shoes, not evening allowing my mother in. They found a bomb. Just not the kind they were looking for. [QUOTE=Bobie;41858718]next up: is the illuminati really mind controlling your pets through chlorine in the water?[/QUOTE] I find that extremely offensive, as the PR manager for the Illuminati I'm going to have to burn your house down. Sorry, it's my job as IlluminatiRex.

Smart.

[QUOTE=007JamesBond007;41858668]Why do people force these kinds of marriages?[/QUOTE] Because of countries that still have cultures based on honour, where individuals are defined by their families, so families do anything to not have their honour ruined. Yes, it's incredibly stupid.

Now parents will check their underwear for metal objects.

Is this really uncommon or am I ignorant for thinking arranged marriages were a dead tradition in western countries?

[QUOTE=007JamesBond007;41858668]Why do people force these kinds of marriages?[/QUOTE] Family's honor, trying to secure trade deals, peace treaty between different groups. The hope is usually that by marrying your child to someone who is wealthy[or of high order], you will secure your family many generations of prosperity and peace. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Olas;41859117]Is this really uncommon or am I ignorant for thinking arranged marriages were a dead tradition in western countries?[/QUOTE] Mail-ordered brides.

[quote]A third of cases involved children aged under 17. [B]The oldest victim was aged 71; the youngest just two.[/B][/quote] Wait what?

The muslims I know joke about it when going back to packistan for their holidays. "oh watch me getting fucking married off to a whale" In reality though it still goes on and can turn ugly if it doesnt goes according to plan.

[QUOTE=Moby-;41859088]Now parents will check their underwear for metal objects.[/QUOTE] Just start shouting you have a bomb or punch out a security guard Instant private interview

[QUOTE=TehAgentGuy;41859257]Wait what?[/QUOTE] Those poor elderly folk being put into forced marriages.

Why did I come into this thread expecting a gigantic spoon in its underwear saving children

I first I thought the spoon was to give girls a crotch bulge and make everyone believe they were boys. The actual plan is far more sensible.

This is a more complicated issue for me. From my viewpoint it is wrong, however this has been going on for thousands of years and it is part of their culture. I am OK with making the decision that they should not be allowed to do this, but if that's the case then you are basically disallowing their freedom of religion, or at least making them change it. I understand how horrible this can be but at the same time I understand why they do it. I think it is wrong to arrange marriages but I personally do not believe I am ina position to change it, nor would it be right for me to do so. If these kinds of things are to change it must be through conversation, and a hero within their own culture who can set things right. I don't think it's right for an outsider to come in and make them change, no matter how much it needs changing.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41860231]This is a more complicated issue for me. From my viewpoint it is wrong, however this has been going on for thousands of years and it is part of their culture. I am OK with making the decision that they should not be allowed to do this, but if that's the case then you are basically disallowing their freedom of religion, or at least making them change it. I understand how horrible this can be but at the same time I understand why they do it. I think it is wrong to arrange marriages but I personally do not believe I am ina position to change it, nor would it be right for me to do so. If these kinds of things are to change it must be through conversation, and a hero within their own culture who can set things right. I don't think it's right for an outsider to come in and make them change, no matter how much it needs changing.[/QUOTE] Arranged marriages are different from forced marriages

[QUOTE=smurfy;41860259]Arranged marriages aren't a problem, it's forced marriages (where one or both of those getting married do not consent to it) that is bullshit[/QUOTE] I agree that it is bullshit, what I am saying is that it would also be bullshit for you or any other person from outside their culture to MAKE them change. We can explain why we think it's wrong and hope they change, or someone from within that culture or their governemnt can make it right, but we have no right to do so. IMO [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] I wish we were a unified culture of goodness but we are not, and forcing your opinion of right and wrong on people is just as wrong as forcing marriage on someone.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41860279]I agree that it is bullshit, what I am saying is that it would also be bullshit for you or any other person from outside their culture to MAKE them change. We can explain why we think it's wrong and hope they change, or someone from within that culture or their governemnt can make it right, but we have no right to do so. IMO[/QUOTE] I don't think you really understand what a forced marriage is. Read [url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/11/british-asian-forced-marriages]some[/url] [url=http://www.ashaforcedmarriage.org.uk/case-studies]stories[/url] from people who have been involved in these things, they are serious [url=http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a16]human rights violations[/url]. Making this a freedom of religion issue is like saying Catholic priests should be allowed to molest children because we have no right to impose our values on them.

[QUOTE=smurfy;41860465]I don't think you really understand what a forced marriage is. Read [url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/11/british-asian-forced-marriages]some[/url] [url=http://www.ashaforcedmarriage.org.uk/case-studies]stories[/url] from people who have been involved in these things, they are serious [url=http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a16]human rights violations[/url]. Making this a freedom of religion issue is like saying Catholic priests should be allowed to molest children because we have no right to impose our values on them.[/QUOTE] I fully understand what forced marriage is, what about my post gave you the idea that I didn't? It's still part of their culture that has been going on for thousands of years. I never said it was right not once, I said it would be wrong for anyone but them to forcibly change it. Frankly it is wrong, but I am not the one who needs to change it, and neither are you. Unless you want a large group of resentful people living in a society that had no hand in creating.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41860279]I agree that it is bullshit, what I am saying is that it would also be bullshit for you or any other person from outside their culture to MAKE them change. We can explain why we think it's wrong and hope they change, or someone from within that culture or their governemnt can make it right, but we have no right to do so. IMO [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] I wish we were a unified culture of goodness but we are not, and forcing your opinion of right and wrong on people is just as wrong as forcing marriage on someone.[/QUOTE] It's harmful behaviour to even allow forced marriage to continue in the name of "culture". We shouldn't allow it to happen end of. Arranged marriage too I guess as that is just as bullshit. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=frozensoda;41860471]I fully understand what forced marriage is, what about my post gave you the idea that I didn't? It's still part of their culture that has been going on for thousands of years. I never said it was right not once, I said it would be wrong for anyone but them to change it.[/QUOTE] Seriously? It's wrong for anyone but them to change it? What about the people who actually realise what a load of shit it is? Why must we stand aside and let them continue harming their children all to uphold archaic traditions?

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41860231]This is a more complicated issue for me. From my viewpoint it is wrong, however this has been going on for thousands of years and it is part of their culture. I am OK with making the decision that they should not be allowed to do this, but if that's the case then you are basically disallowing their freedom of religion, or at least making them change it. I understand how horrible this can be but at the same time I understand why they do it. I think it is wrong to arrange marriages but I personally do not believe I am ina position to change it, nor would it be right for me to do so. If these kinds of things are to change it must be through conversation, and a hero within their own culture who can set things right. I don't think it's right for an outsider to come in and make them change, no matter how much it needs changing.[/QUOTE] That goes for everything, everywhere. But people will always believe they have the duty in the name of human rights, despite those rights changing from nation to nation and thereby negating the purpose of them completely. Ideology must be universal, or it has no meaning and will always boil down to perspectives waring against each other -- in which case neither side has any right to declare "it's the right thing to do", despite their bleeding hearts wanting to be heroes of perceived justice. They are the simple minded that have no greater understanding, preaching about cultures and respect and in the same hand trying to activity destroy one because "it's barbaric" compared to their own ideals -- ideals that have changed and will change again. Cherry picking your ideals is the surest way of negating their power. In ten thousand years I would bet people will look back on our cultures seeped in "rights" and think us barbarians of the time compared to what they have -- what then would that make those current "barbaric" cultures we look down upon, and what would that make us. Nothing, it makes it all nothing. We're all on the same level because there's no universal Divine right that is suddenly being broken, just cultures waring against each other. A basic philosophical notion that the world is too emotional to comprehend.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;41860477]It's harmful behaviour to even allow forced marriage to continue in the name of "culture". We shouldn't allow it to happen end of. Arranged marriage too I guess as that is just as bullshit. [editline]16th August 2013[/editline] Seriously? It's wrong for anyone but them to change it? What about the people who actually realise what a load of shit it is? Why must we stand aside and let them continue harming their children all to uphold archaic traditions?[/QUOTE] I didn't say they should uphold it I said THEY should change it, not some outsider who doesn't even understand why they do it. I am not defending them I am saying they need to change it, not you.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41860471]I fully understand what forced marriage is, what about my post gave you the idea that I didn't? It's still part of their culture that has been going on for thousands of years. I never said it was right not once, I said it would be wrong for anyone but them to forcibly change it. Frankly it is wrong, but I am not the one who needs to change it, and neither are you. Unless you want a large group of resentful people living in a society that had no hand in creating.[/QUOTE] This is not forcibly changing their culture, its upholding the laws of our country. The kids being taken are British citizens. If it is believed that they are being forced into a marriage and they want out then they can decide to do it and tell someone. The law has a duty of care to these children and if there is good reason to believe that they are being taken out of the country to be forced into a marriage then they should be taken away, ESPECIALLY if they come forward saying that they are being forced into it.

[QUOTE=Cushie;41860556]This is not forcibly changing their culture. The kids being taken are British citizens. If it is believed that they are being forced into a marriage and they want out then they can decide to do it and tell someone. The law has a duty of care to these children and if there is good reason to believe that they are being taken out of the country to be forced into a marriage then they should be taken away.[/QUOTE] I agree in the individual cases, and this is a good program. All I am saying is to go into these countries where this is normal and force everyone to change is wrong. That's all I am saying. Nothing more.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41860525]I didn't say they should uphold it I said THEY should change it, not some outsider who doesn't even understand why they do it. I am not defending them I am saying they need to change it, not you.[/QUOTE] And if they refuse to change it? (which the traditionalists will) What happens then? Do we sit by idly and let it continue? Or do we at least try to stop it from occurring? How will the younger generations know the tradition is wrong if that's what their elders teach them day in, day out? Us telling them won't stop it if they are stuck in their beliefs.