Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself’, document says
49 replies, posted
[QUOTE] BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.
The prisoner, who is currently in jail, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant, which is sealed by the court. The Post was given the document under the condition that the prisoner not be named because the person who provided it feared for the inmate’s safety.
The document, written by a Baltimore police investigator, offers the first glimpse of what might have happened inside the van. It is not clear whether any additional evidence backs up the prisoner’s version, which is just one piece of a much larger probe.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony W. Batts has admitted flaws in the way officers handled Gray after they chased him through a West Baltimore housing project and arrested him. They said they later found a switchblade clipped to the inside of his pants. Batts has said officers repeatedly ignored Gray’s pleas for medical help and failed to secure him with a safety belt or harness in the back of the transport van.
The van driver stopped three times while transporting Gray to a booking center, the first to put him in leg irons. Batts said the officer driving the van described Gray as “irate.” The search warrant application says Gray “continued to be combative in the police wagon.”
The driver made a second stop, five minutes later, and asked an officer to help check on Gray. At that stop, police have said the van driver found Gray on the floor of the van and put him back on the seat, still without restraints. Police said Gray asked for medical help at that point.
The third stop was to put the other prisoner — a 38-year-old man accused of violating a protective order — into the van. The van was then driven six blocks to the Western District station. Gray was taken from there to a hospital, where he died April 19.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Batts has said officers violated policy by failing to properly restrain Gray. But the president of the Baltimore police union noted that the policy mandating seat belts took effect April 3 and was e-mailed to officers as part of a package of five policy changes on April 9, three days before Gray was arrested.
Gene Ryan, the police union president, said many officers aren’t reading the new policies – updated to meet new national standards – because they think they’re the same rules they already know, with only cosmetic changes. The updates are supposed to be read out during pre-shift meetings.
The previous policy was written in 1997, when the department used smaller, boxier wagons that officers called “ice cream trucks.” They originally had a metal bar that prisoners had to hold during the ride. Seat belts were added later, but the policy left their use discretionary.
Ryan said that until all facts become clear, he “urged everyone not to rush to judgment. The facts as presented will speak for themselves. I just wish everyone would take a step back and a deep breath, and let the investigation unfold.”[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=sm_tw[/url]
If this is true, then it's more of a failure to follow policy issue, rather than a "cops kill black guy" issue.
I really doubt he severed his own spine.
[QUOTE=Fangz;47629102]I really doubt he severed his own spine.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be that he were trying to sever his own spine, but that the cops had to exercise additional warranted force in order to restrain him, which, because it is force, incidentally severed his spine, rather than a calm and calculated HUTTAH SPINE SNAP of racism.
It seems hard to believe that he randomly decided on a whim to severely injure or kill himself after getting arrested. He had a long track record, it seems odd that he randomly decided this time that he would attempt to injure himself like this. And what would he do? Did he just slam himself against a wall in there? There's not a lot of things you can do when handcuffed in a small containment cell in a van.
[QUOTE=Fangz;47629102]I really doubt he severed his own spine.[/QUOTE]
You're right. Had Freddy Gray followed his doctors orders to stay home and recover from his spinal surgery the week before, rather than going out to sell drugs on the street, he wouldn't have had to run from the police, and have his spine severed from the tackle. In the video the cops were dragging him because he couldn't or wouldn't walk on his own. Incredibly doubtful cops beat the shit out of him in the van.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47629153]You're right. Had Freddy Gray followed his doctors orders to stay home and recover from his spinal surgery the week before, rather than going out to sell drugs on the street, he wouldn't have had to run from the police, and have his spine severed from the tackle. In the video the cops were dragging him because he couldn't or wouldn't walk on his own. Incredibly doubtful cops beat the shit out of him in the van.[/QUOTE]
I think the tackle only partially fractured his spine, and that during the ride, something finished the fracture which actually severed the spine. This makes a lot more sense when you realize his body was able to move more than it should have been because he wasn't strapped in.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47629169]I think the tackle only partially fractured his spine, and that during the ride, something finished the fracture which actually severed the spine. This makes a lot more sense when you realize his body was able to move more than it should have been because he wasn't strapped in.[/QUOTE]
I've read that he was not properly secured in the transport van, maybe that's what severed his spine? Still pretty fishy.
[QUOTE=kijji;47629202]I've read that he was not properly secured in the transport van, maybe that's what severed his spine? Still pretty fishy.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying the police did most of the work with the tackle, but because he wasn't secured, his body could have moved in a funny way while seated (while pressure was on his spine), which could have finished the fracture. It could have been something small like hitting a pothole the wrong way or taking a turn too sharp without him being strapped in.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47629153]You're right. Had Freddy Gray followed his doctors orders to stay home and recover from his spinal surgery the week before, rather than going out to sell drugs on the street, he wouldn't have had to run from the police, and have his spine severed from the tackle. In the video the cops were dragging him because he couldn't or wouldn't walk on his own. Incredibly doubtful cops beat the shit out of him in the van.[/QUOTE]
What are these doctors orders? I havent heard that spin yet
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47629244]I'm saying the police did most of the work with the tackle, but because he wasn't secured, his body could have [b]moved in a funny way[/b]while seated (while pressure was on his spine), which could have finished the fracture. It could have been something small like hitting a pothole the wrong way or taking a turn too sharp without him being strapped in.[/QUOTE]
Which no doubt would happen through irate behavior as described. If the inmates words are accurate, leaving him unsecured is symptom, but not the cause of his death.
He should of been secured to make sure his spine wasn't going to fuck up anymore
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47629389]He should of been secured to make sure his spine wasn't going to fuck up anymore[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone knew his spine was messed up to begin with.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47629153]You're right. Had Freddy Gray followed his doctors orders to stay home and recover from his spinal surgery the week before, rather than going out to sell drugs on the street, he wouldn't have had to run from the police, and have his spine severed from the tackle. In the video the cops were dragging him because he couldn't or wouldn't walk on his own. Incredibly doubtful cops beat the shit out of him in the van.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/[/url]
This did not happen.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;47629271]What are these doctors orders? I havent heard that spin yet[/QUOTE]
Invasive spinal surgery seems like one of those things that requires more than a week of recuperation but maybe that's just me.
[editline]29th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrBob1337;47629458][url]http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/28/did-freddie-gray-have-spinal-surgery-from-car-accident-a-week-before-his-arrest/[/url]
This did not happen.[/QUOTE]
This rabbit hole just keeps going deeper.
This reminds me of that other thread where all it took is one person spreading the false rumour that the guy who died in a police chase 2 years after getting a new heart had two heart transplants, and that the chase happened mere months after the second one, for people to believe it to be fact several pages later.
[editline]30th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47630013]This rabbit hole just keeps going deeper.[/QUOTE]
When you lie about someone and then someone shows that you're wrong, the rabbit hole isn't getting deeper. It's actually getting significantly shallower than you previously suggested it to be.
It was pure pain and agony watching them keep hitting this point on FOX tonight during the Baltimore coverage. "EXPLOSIVE evidence, the FACT of the matter is these wounds were SELF INFLICTED, Freddie WALKED INTO the van on his own and severed his spinal cord BY HIMSELF". Really? They kept talking about him "walking into the van" while playing footage of him being dragged and lifted up into the van by 3 police officers because he was clearly incapable of walking, then they had the audacity to suggest he severed 80% of his spinal cord intentionally in the back of the van, presumably to stir up some racial controversy in the media? All of this coming from the hearsay testimony of an anonymous prisoner who was allegedly in the van with Freddie but could not see him.
Considering they've admitted he was never properly secured in the van, and given that he was clearly incapable of walking, it seems the simple explanation is that he slid around in the back of the van because he had no way of steadying himself and because he was never secured. Seems much more plausible than someone severing their own spinal cord for no real reason.
[QUOTE=srobins;47630050]It was pure pain and agony watching them keep hitting this point on FOX tonight during the Baltimore coverage.[/QUOTE]
It's FOX, unbiased and honest reporting is the last thing you should expect.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47630070]It's FOX, unbiased and honest reporting is the last thing you should expect.[/QUOTE]
We were watching purely for entertainment value, I swear. It really amazes me police would rather have an entire city torn apart by protests (and completely destroy what little public relations with the community they had) than to just admit one or two officers did something bad and will be punished accordingly.
This happens far too often, black person resists arrest and escalates the situation, cops do what they have to and then it turns into a bloated crap filled story for the media which turns into riots.
the photo in the source "Dont shoot and we wont loot" poster someone is holding; looting your own town hasn't got anything to do with cops and is incredibly stupid.
[QUOTE=srobins;47630084]We were watching purely for entertainment value, I swear. It really amazes me police would rather have an entire city torn apart by protests (and completely destroy what little public relations with the community they had) than to just admit one or two officers did something bad and will be punished accordingly.[/QUOTE]
When police admit to wrongdoing in one case it opens a whole can of worms where people start wondering what other times they've gotten away with misconduct.
In cases like this they can point to the protesters and say "look at how crazy these people are acting over a SINGLE thing!"
Once people start digging and they unearth a ton of evidence that the misconduct was systemic and ongoing it becomes harder to suggest that everyone's anger is misplaced. As long as they keep denying wrongdoing there are plenty of people who will automatically side with them no matter what, as Fox has demonstrated.
[QUOTE=srobins;47630084]We were watching purely for entertainment value, I swear. It really amazes me police would rather have an entire city torn apart by protests (and completely destroy what little public relations with the community they had) than to just admit one or two officers did something bad and will be punished accordingly.[/QUOTE]
These situations are rarely (if ever) so black and white (no pun intended) as to say this is right and this is wrong. There's an entire chain of events and circumstances to consider before any action can be taken. Acting impulsively would cause injustice. The general public doesn't want to understand this, and whether or not this particular case is; said public has already gotten it in their mind that they're being persecuted, targeted and oppressed without fully understanding the situation. It comes down to the investigators to examine the case with objective scrutiny.
[QUOTE=srobins;47630084]We were watching purely for entertainment value, I swear. It really amazes me police would rather have an entire city torn apart by protests (and completely destroy what little public relations with the community they had) than to just admit one or two officers did something bad and will be punished accordingly.[/QUOTE]
Well shouldn't people let the police and the DOJ finish their investigations before jumping to conclusions? I mean admitting wrongdoing and punishment is expected, but you can't have that without an investigation to show who was wrong and who deserves punishment.
This situation is all sorts of messed up. I just hope all of this gets sorted out and everyone can be happy and love each other.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47630025]
When you lie about someone and then someone shows that you're wrong, the rabbit hole isn't getting deeper. It's actually getting significantly shallower than you previously suggested it to be.[/QUOTE]
Seeing as how I believed a rumor that was circulated by several websites that doesn't necessarily make me a liar, that makes me a sucker who contributed to spreading false information, and for that I'm sorry. If you want me to post some facts that have been checked and proven correct I'll be more than happy to. I'll go ahead and start with Grays more recent arrest records.
[quote]March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)[/quote]
and CNN has reported that the reason why Gray was arrested was due to the fact [url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/22/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-what-we-know/]he had a switch blade[/url] on his person. I thought his arrest was due to more reasons than just the blade he had, but until the report is complete I'm not going to make any more assumptions or opinions on the matter. All I can say is the cops were negligent in not properly securing gray for transport, as well as making sure he did not need medical assistance before moving him to jail. So along with body cameras it seems that there's a need for cameras inside all police vehicles as well, not just the cruisers.
If anything, all this proves is that nobody has a damn clue as to what's going on and the majority of information being spread around is more based on speculation than actual facts. So until we get a full report as early as Friday or sometime after that, nobody knows (aside from Freddy Gray) what completely happened to him from the time he was arrested to the time he went into a coma and died.
I see a long history of drug abuse in a society that would rather throw people in prison than help them. Notice that of all those charges, only one is remotely violent.
Not someone who deserved to die
Could also be violent shaking from the spine breaking or something.
[editline]30th April 2015[/editline]
Or trying to get attention because he was in pain or couldn't breathe.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;47630237]
and CNN has reported that the reason why Gray was arrested was due to the fact [url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/22/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-what-we-know/]he had a switch blade[/url] on his person. I thought his arrest was due to more reasons than just the blade he had, but until the report is complete I'm not going to make any more assumptions or opinions on the matter. All I can say is the cops were negligent in not properly securing gray for transport, as well as making sure he did not need medical assistance before moving him to jail. So along with body cameras it seems that there's a need for cameras inside all police vehicles as well, not just the cruisers.
[/QUOTE]
IIRC the switchblade he was carrying was allowed to be carried for self defence reasons, so the switchblade should not be the reason for arrest if it was within the law
Best thing to do is to wait for this report to be published, on the topic of this report, is it being written by Independent investigators or..?
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47630602]IIRC the switchblade he was carrying was allowed to be carried for self defence reasons, so the switchblade should not be the reason for arrest if it was within the law
Best thing to do is to wait for this report to be published, on the topic of this report, is it being written by Independent investigators or..?[/QUOTE]
reading up on it, switchblades are legal to carry around.
since i don't live in maryland, i want to know if having a record and carrying a knife is grounds for facing a weapons charge, which is the reason why gray ran in the first place.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;47630635]reading up on it, switchblades are legal to carry around.
since i don't live in maryland, i want to know if having a record and carrying a knife is grounds for facing a weapons charge, which is the reason why gray ran in the first place.[/QUOTE]
The police wouldn't know straight away until they ran his name into a database, but even so I don't think having weapon charges from the past should infringe your right in carrying around a switchblade
[QUOTE=Maegord;47629145]It seems hard to believe that he randomly decided on a whim to severely injure or kill himself after getting arrested. He had a long track record, it seems odd that he randomly decided this time that he would attempt to injure himself like this. And what would he do? Did he just slam himself against a wall in there? There's not a lot of things you can do when handcuffed in a small containment cell in a van.[/QUOTE]
While at one of the precincts, I've seen a handcuffed prisoner at a booking desk pick up a pen with his mouth and slam his head into another prisoner, sending the pen through his throat, which killed him shortly after despite our attempts to save him.
I don't think you understand a criminals mind or what a person is capable of if their state of mind is not sound.
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