So, what is his conclusion exactly? I watched the video but he never really gives a Conclusion, just leaves it up in the air.
[QUOTE=Xonax;50943705]So, what is his conclusion exactly? I watched the video but he never really gives a Conclusion, just leaves it up in the air.[/QUOTE]
What I was left with: Hello Games and at the heart Sean was mostly responsible for this shitshow, but there was miscellaneous factors besides that.
[QUOTE=Xonax;50943705]So, what is his conclusion exactly? I watched the video but he never really gives a Conclusion, just leaves it up in the air.[/QUOTE]
Hello Games is at fault for misleading its consumers, but we don't really have any evidence to prove if this was done in a malicious way, or if it just came from a team who were biting off more than they could chew. Hopefully, Sean Murray either learns from this experience and has more clear communication for their next game, or they actually hire a PR team to handle the info regarding it. Take any future claims for any games made by Hello Games with a major pillar of salt.
I actually love the point that Jim brought up about how if a game is generally considered "good", we tend to forget any misleading information or "lies", and if it's terrible, we all bring it up. The reason why this is a debate with NMS at all is because the perception of the game is pretty much right down the middle. Some absolutely love it and are defending it, some absolutely hate it and want to see it burn no matter what. Others don't really care, or think the game is simply alright.
And yes, lies or no, at least Hello Games/Sean Murray isn't as bad as Gearbox/Randy Pitchford. At least Hello Games did show some passion in their project, instead of just claiming to have passion while being so careless as to outsource it to another studio and use its massive budget to make another IP.
Doesn't really add anything to the conversation then does it.
The title should have been "A Video Discussing Whether Or Not Hello Games mislead people about No Man's Sky"
Since that is pretty much what he was talking about, not lying.
[QUOTE=Xonax;50944084]Doesn't really add anything to the conversation then does it.
The title should have been "A Video Discussing Whether Or Not Hello Games mislead people about No Man's Sky"
Since that is pretty much what he was talking about, not lying.[/QUOTE]
How is being intentionally misleading and lying different.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;50944231]How is being intentionally misleading and lying different.[/QUOTE]
Well you can still mislead people but not lie.
For example, Todd Howard, he misleads people with his exaggeration, but he isn't lying is he? He makes it seem like a big deal when it isn't.
Heck, you can still intentionally mislead people without lying.
[QUOTE=Xonax;50944269]Well you can still mislead people but not lie.
For example, Todd Howard, he misleads people with his exaggeration, but he isn't lying is he? He makes it seem like a big deal when it isn't.
Heck, you can still intentionally mislead people without lying.[/QUOTE]
I think the point that Jim brings up about "if the game is good, people don't really seem to care" kind of applies here.
Skyrim doesn't really have infinite quests, and you can't climb to the top of every mountain. The settlement building system in Fallout 4 doesn't "just work" because it's prone to issues. But, none of that matters because most people really liked Skyrim and Fallout 4 despite the validity of Todd Howard's claims. Same applies to Oblivion despite a huge chunk of Radiant AI getting the axe.
Though I will say that Todd Howard's claims are more just embellishments than actual claims of features. More like a "this feature is awesome" instead of "this feature will be in the game." As such, he's more easily forgivable, and more prone to silly jokes and memes instead of death threats and threats of lawsuits. Now, if Fallout 4 was terrible for most, I'm sure the latter would be the case, because people are just silly.
wasn't that conan interview a couple weeks before launch, AND after it went gold
it wasnt the case of just throwing ideas out and just not being able to implement them, he said shit that wasn't in the game was in the game
[QUOTE=Xonax;50943705]So, what is his conclusion exactly? I watched the video but he never really gives a Conclusion, just leaves it up in the air.[/QUOTE]
They lied but it's up to you whether or not that's them being horrible lying bastards or excited devs that got in over their heads. But either way, it's objectively true that they told lies. I prefer the latter tbh, I think it's very Molyneux where they just really wanted to meet the unreasonable expectations that people had.
Yeah, I came to a similar conclusion. Perhaps we can apply Hanlon's Razor, and assume it was more naive foolishness than deceptive malice? After all, it's easier to be a fool than a villain.
But whether it's bona-fide swindling or simply folks being incompetent with their promises, the lessons on show in the wake of this debacle should not be forgotten, especially not by Sean Murray. If anything, he should look at the nonsense Peter Molyneux kept getting tangled up in, and make note to not make the same mistakes.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;50945444]I think the point that Jim brings up about "if the game is good, people don't really seem to care" kind of applies here.
Skyrim doesn't really have infinite quests, and you can't climb to the top of every mountain. The settlement building system in Fallout 4 doesn't "just work" because it's prone to issues. But, none of that matters because most people really liked Skyrim and Fallout 4 despite the validity of Todd Howard's claims. Same applies to Oblivion despite a huge chunk of Radiant AI getting the axe.
Though I will say that Todd Howard's claims are more just embellishments than actual claims of features. More like a "this feature is awesome" instead of "this feature will be in the game." As such, he's more easily forgivable, and more prone to silly jokes and memes instead of death threats and threats of lawsuits. Now, if Fallout 4 was terrible for most, I'm sure the latter would be the case, because people are just silly.[/QUOTE]
I feel like people give Todd way too much shit about it.
He didn't lie, but he did exagerate, and people probably hyped it up a bit. When they thought of infinite quests, they probably thought about actual immersive infinite quests instead of "go there, get this, come back, heres 100 gold", and I don't even understand the point of climbing up every mountain, when there would probably be nothing at the end of it.
We can't excuse Sean, but I feel like people got way too much hyped with the game, even disregarding actual technical issues, and not feature issues like the lack of multiplayer or other things.
I sincerely don't see what people saw in it at first. To me, it just looked like a huge sandbox that would get boring because of lacking a real objective. It got even worse when many of the features he advertised weren't even heard of in the game.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;50944231]How is being intentionally misleading and lying different.[/QUOTE]
lying implies that X thing doesn't even exist or is outright false
there is a fuckload of things that Sean lied about, regardless of intention or if by accident
heh guys there's x feature in this game
*game comes out, said feature doesn't exist*
heh amazing that X feature would happen in the first day heh what are the odds heh
"guys he isn't a liar"
are you serious
[QUOTE=Rahu X;50945444]I think the point that Jim brings up about "if the game is good, people don't really seem to care" kind of applies here.
Skyrim doesn't really have infinite quests, and you can't climb to the top of every mountain. The settlement building system in Fallout 4 doesn't "just work" because it's prone to issues. But, none of that matters because most people really liked Skyrim and Fallout 4 despite the validity of Todd Howard's claims. Same applies to Oblivion despite a huge chunk of Radiant AI getting the axe.
Though I will say that Todd Howard's claims are more just embellishments than actual claims of features. More like a "this feature is awesome" instead of "this feature will be in the game." As such, he's more easily forgivable, and more prone to silly jokes and memes instead of death threats and threats of lawsuits. Now, if Fallout 4 was terrible for most, I'm sure the latter would be the case, because people are just silly.[/QUOTE]
I think its more to do with that people feel they get there monies worth from a game.
Even with fallout 4 not living up to Todd's claims, I think its still worth $60 and I hated the ending.
Were as no man's sky, most would agree it would only be $30 with the amount of content it offers.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;50946110]these are the two worst possible things you could have picked as "lies" because they are both true
there ARE infinite quests and he said "THAT" mountain (the throat of the world) not "ANY" mountain.
you can indeed climb the throat of the world.
he didn't say "it just works without any issues", he said "it just works." so that isn't a lie either.[/QUOTE]
If Todd Howard lied, Fallout 4 wouldn't have had settlements at all
imagine if he had his big "wow this is so cool rant" about settlements and then the game came out and it wasn't in the game period, and then afterwards tweeted "Wow the settlements we are seeing on the first day are amazing" despite it not being in the game, and not even by accident.
Using big words and hype language isn't lying
Todd Howard doesn't lie, he's just good at making Meh things sound great
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.