• Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional
    230 replies, posted
[quote]Missouri's tight restrictions on protests and picketing outside military funerals were tossed out by a federal judge Monday, over free speech concerns. A small Kansas church had brought suit over its claimed right to loudly march outside the burials and memorial services of those killed in overseas conflicts. The state legislature had passed a law to keep members of the Topeka-based Westboro Baptist Church from demonstrating within 300 feet of such private services. Church members, led by pastor Fred Phelps, believe God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events including soldiers' deaths. Members have traveled the country, shouting at grieving family members at funerals and displaying such signs as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," "God Blew Up the Troops" and "AIDS Cures Fags." The Supreme Court last year had granted a temporary injunction blocking enforcement of the law until it could be challenged. The justices will hear a similar challenge this fall involving the same church. Judge Fernando Gaitan in a 19-page order, dismissed the state legislation. The laws, said the Kansas City-based judge, "could have the effect of criminalizing speech the mourners want to hear, including speech from counter-protesters to plaintiffs' [the Westboro Church's] message. As the law burdens substantially more speech than is necessary to further the government's interest, [the law] violates the free speech clause of the First Amendment." Phelps, his daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, and other church members had protested near the August 2005 funeral of Army Spc. Edward Lee Myers in St. Joseph, Missouri. The married Army Airborne Ranger died while on patrol in Samarra, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device detonated near his Humvee military vehicle. He was 21, and in addition to his wife, he left behind a daughter. He was later buried at Leavenworth National Cemetery in Kansas. In response to that protest, Missouri lawmakers passed the "Spc. Edward Lee Myers Law," criminalizing picketing "in front or about" a funeral location or procession. Phelps-Roper then went to federal court to ask for a preliminary injunction to block enforcement of the statute until its constitutionality could be reviewed. A federal appeals court eventually agreed. That court did not address the broader First Amendment claims, but noted the law was overly intrusive, since it "restricts expressive activity not just within or on the premises of a cemetery of a church, but also on traditional public fora such as the adjacent public streets and sidewalks." The Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services," as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased. But the justices in October will hear an appeal from the father of a U.S. solider killed in Iraq, after members of the Westboro Church conducted an angry demonstration at his son's burial service in Maryland. The family of the Marine had won a $5 million judgment from the protesters, which was overturned by lower federal courts. At issue is a balancing test between the privacy rights of grieving families and the free-speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message. Several other states besides Missouri have attempted to impose specific limits on when and where the church members can protest. The justices are being asked to address how far states can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict the speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting. Various jurisdictions across the nation have responded to the protests with varying levels of control over the church protesters. According to a legal brief it filed with the Supreme Court, church members believe it is their duty to protest and picket at certain events, including funerals, to promote their religious message: "That God's promise of love and heaven for those who obey him in this life is counterbalanced by God's wrath and hell for those who do not obey him." The congregation is made up mostly of Phelps and his family. The pastor has 13 children, and at least 54 grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren. He described himself as an "old-time" gospel preacher in a CNN interview in 2006, saying, "You can't preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God." The church has also protested at least since 1993 at funerals of gay persons, those who died from AIDS, and others whose lifestyles are deemed sinful but were touted as heroic upon their death. Missouri officials said the appeals court improperly balanced the free speech rights of both sides in favor of the church. "Mourners cannot avoid a message that targets funerals without forgoing their right to partake in funeral or burial services, so are appropriately viewed as a captive audience" that is simply unable to shut out the offensive message, said state attorneys. The case is Phelps-Roper v. Koster (06-4156-cv).[/quote] :fsmug: Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/missouri.funeral.protests.ruling/index.html?hpt=T2[/url]
It might be legal, but its still unethical.
Small Kansas church eh? Fuck I wonder who that could be :rolleyes: He is right though, it's illegal to stop the protests, still don't agree with allowing them though.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;24118982]It might be legal, but its still unethical.[/QUOTE] I knew you guys would pull out another argument
It might be legal, but they're still a bunch of fucktards.
Wonderful. I love how in our country it's legal to protest the funerals of those who died in its wars. EDIT: Some people are taking this the wrong way. Yes I know it's legal. Yes, I know it's part of the Bill of Rights. Legal or not, it's still retarded.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;24118982]It might be legal, but its still unethical.[/QUOTE] Laws based on ethics would be the most retarded idea ever.
[QUOTE=Edgar Allan Poe;24119066]Wonderful. I love how in our country it's legal to protest the funerals of those who died in its wars.[/QUOTE] glad to know that you don't give a shit about the first amendment
While it is vital that this right of protest exists, I'm fairly sure there must be sound and loitering laws that would restrict this kind of shit in a cemetery. At the very least there must be a case to be made for harassment suits. But that's just the American law bound part of me. WBC are scum, they can go suck a dick and if I ruled a nation I'd have them all deported.
Good, it [I]was [/I]unconstitutional. They shouldn't say it, but they have the right to regardless. Anyways, popcorn time, argument coming up
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24119103]glad to know that you don't give a shit about the first amendment[/QUOTE] Fuck I just can't read that correctly when you have that avatar. Also, this Judge must be pretty good if he corrects a law even if it's in favor of [del]pond[/del] sewer scum.
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24119033]I knew you guys would pull out another argument[/QUOTE] You disagree?
[QUOTE=DanRatherman;24119121]I ruled a nation I'd have them all deported.[/QUOTE] this is why you aren't in charge [editline]07:24PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;24119283]You disagree?[/QUOTE] I'm not gonna comment on your straw man we're discussing the legality
o'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave...
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24119287] I'm not gonna comment on your straw man we're discussing the legality[/QUOTE] And I said it was perfectly legal.
[QUOTE=Edgar Allan Poe;24119066]Wonderful. I love how in our country it's legal to protest the funerals of those who died in its wars.[/QUOTE] And it should be. I hate people like Westboro Baptist Church just as much as anybody does, but they have the perfect right to protest. Yeah, their argument is stupid and immoral, but if we make laws based on ethical values it totally derails the purpose of the constitution. We'll just have to find other ways to deter them.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;24119502]And I said it was perfectly legal.[/QUOTE] did you say that months ago before this ruling? because I know A LOT of people were saying how this shit was illegal (harassment, etc.) now their argument has officially collapsed
[QUOTE=Rubs10;24119142]Fuck I just can't read that correctly when you have that avatar. Also, this Judge must be pretty good if he corrects a law even if it's in favor of [del]pond[/del] sewer scum.[/QUOTE] Yeah he is, he's fucking fantastic at his job, not allowing emotion to cloud his judgement, frankly he would be a top notch judge if he didn't allow his emotion to play a part.
I agree with the judge, as bad as the implications are.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;24119082]Laws based on ethics would be the most retarded idea ever.[/QUOTE] He didn't say that we should make it illegal because it's unethical...
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24119661]did you say that months ago before this ruling? because I know A LOT of people were saying how this shit was illegal (harassment, etc.) now their argument has officially collapsed[/QUOTE] I did. It's legal. And it's shit. But it's still legal.
[QUOTE=ghostfais;24119375]o'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave...[/QUOTE] You do realise that by allowing them to do this, we are preserving their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly right? Thus your attempt at mocking us with a piece of our national anthem actually failed because it made perfect sense.
It's fucked up what they're doing, but they do have the right to do it. If they had a shred of decency they wouldn't but this is modern day America where kids are growing up to be disrespectful little shitheads. You might as well let some church protest funerals of fallen military members. While we sit back on our comfy couches and computer chairs and watch as the values America used to stand for are washed down the drain.
[QUOTE=Kais;24120336]It's fucked up what they're doing, but they do have the right to do it. If they had a shred of decency they wouldn't [B]but this is modern day America where kids are growing up to be disrespectful little shitheads.[/B] You might as well let some church protest funerals of fallen military members. While we sit back on our comfy couches and computer chairs and watch as the values America used to stand for are washed down the drain.[/QUOTE] You do realize that Fred Phelps Sr. is ~80 years old, right? And what values are you talking about?
[QUOTE=Kais;24120336]It's fucked up what they're doing, but they do have the right to do it. If they had a shred of decency they wouldn't but this is modern day America where kids are growing up to be disrespectful little shitheads. You might as well let some church protest funerals of fallen military members. While we sit back on our comfy couches and computer chairs and watch as the values America used to stand for are washed down the drain.[/QUOTE] What "values" exactly does America personify?
[QUOTE=Kais;24120336]It's fucked up what they're doing, but they do have the right to do it. If they had a shred of decency they wouldn't but this is modern day America where kids are growing up to be disrespectful little shitheads. You might as well let some church protest funerals of fallen military members. While we sit back on our comfy couches and computer chairs and watch as the values America used to stand for are washed down the drain.[/QUOTE] how is it fucked up what they're doing
[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OdktjAkSfmk/S91m_zxm4eI/AAAAAAAAAF0/3gmArYj7SzE/s400/buddy_holly.jpg[/img] damn devil music is taking our values away
I don't like those people.
its unfortunate but its part of being an american, buck up and deal with it
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