A few weeks back, the podcast/radio show This American Life did a segment on Border Patrol checkpoints set up by the DHS (Dept. of Homeland Security). These checkpoints aren't even on the border and can be as far as 100 miles away. Usually, what they do is have you stop,m answer some questions, and as long as nothing comes up, they'll send you on your way. The kicker is that unless they have some sort of reasonable suspicion, you don't actually have to answer any of their questions or follow any of their orders. As long as you stop, you can be completely uncooperative and they can't do anything about it. As a result, there are tons of videos of people doing this, and it's pretty interesting to watch.
[video=youtube;u4Ku17CqdZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg[/video]
Here's one where a guy just stays completely silent for over 15 minutes.
[video=youtube;S1trVybXXDU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1trVybXXDU[/video]
This next guy doesn't even roll his window down, but it doesn't go quite as well for him. Skip to 10:50 for the ending.
[video=youtube;6CxYIXcG9Bw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CxYIXcG9Bw[/video]
Here's a couple excerpts from the podcast that talk about the legality.
[QUOTE][B]Debbie Nathan[/B]: [I]The refuseniks say these stops are illegal, unconstitutional. Many cite the Fourth Amendment, which, just to refresh your memory, prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. And technically, these non-border Border Patrol checkpoints do constitute a seizure. If you're stopped, you have to wait for the agent's permission to continue on your way.[/I]
...
[I]The friendly agent is right. By law, the Border Patrol can't force you to answer their questions. But there's a lot of confusion about the legal side of this, by both the drivers and the agents, and lots of videos where both sides get it wrong.
So after reading up on case law and talking to four lawyers, here's a quick rundown of your rights. Yes, you have to stop at a checkpoint. But according to the Fifth Amendment, you don't have to say anything, whether you're in the country legally or not. You do have to pull over to secondary when asked, but again, a lot of drivers refuse to go to secondary.
In their arguments with one another, drivers and agents tend to refer to two main documents. One is a Supreme Court case called US versus Martinez-Fuerte. It was decided in 1976, and says many times in many different ways that the checkpoints aren't that intrusive, especially compared to how important they are from a law enforcement standpoint. Justice Lewis Powell gave the opinion announcement back in '76.[/I]
[B]Lewis Powell[/B]:[I][I][I]We hold that stops for brief questioning, routinely conducted at an official checkpoint, are wholly consistent with the Fourth Amendment. The intrusion on privacy and the limitation on freedom of movement in these situations are minimal.[/I][/I][/I]
[B]Debbie Nathan[/B]:[I][I][I]So anyone who says it's illegal, i.e., unconstitutional, to screen for undocumented people at a checkpoint, they're wrong about that and a lot of challengers say it.[/I][/I][/I][/QUOTE]
Here's the whole podcast, if you want to listen.
[URL]http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/540/a-front[/URL]
Skip to 20:39 for the segment.
Sorry, some of these videos are a little old, but I thought is was a pretty interesting watch. Just as a disclaimer, I'm not promoting harassment of officers or agents in any way or condone the motorists' actions.
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
Sorry, about the force to horse plugin in the quotes :v: I can't seem to edit it now.
"AM I BEING DETAINED?" x100
This is so damn stupid. I go through these things every once and awhile (going to Tombstone, Yuma, Ajo Way, etc.) and just stop, they say hi and then you go. Literally don't even ask you any questions. The REASON they're 100 miles away from the border is because you'll get coyotes bringing in people all the way up to Phoenix if you pay them enough. I've seen 20-30 Mexicans cross the road at times after I drive pass a section of road. These are actual border patrol agents, so if they felt inclined that you were prohibiting their ability to keep the border secure, they can have local police detain you.
tl:dr, don't be a fucking tool, they're BPD under the supervision of HLS (because they were all collated under the department awhile ago) and they're just looking for illegal immigrants, you won't get detained or even questioned if you just stop and say hi. Literally say hi. That's it.
edit: Since I'm ranting, I've never even HAD one of these places ask me real questions, one guy asked if we just got back from the Tombstone show and how he wished he could go to the bar there since he was bored. I've even had Mexican friends in the car and all they as is where we're headed when that happens. It's pretty damn obvious to them who's illegal and who isn't.
Yeah, as trivial as the stops actually are and as big of douchebags these people are being, I feel that it does raise the suspicion of whether or not the agents are profiling those who come through. According to the podcast, the agents in the videos filmed by latinos are more suspicious and forceful than in the videos with white dudes doing the filming. Through admittedly, I haven't dug deep enough to find all of the videos that were played.
Triviality aside, these videos do make for some pretty good theater, imo.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;46657942]Well. Technically Latinos are the ones who are coming from the southern border. So it does somewhat make sense that they'd profile. You don't see irish people illegally immigrating through the southern border.[/QUOTE]
Right. If you're in an airport people from all across the globe are coming across and profiling is pretty inaccurate there anyway.
If you're at the U.S. border looking for illegal immigrants on the other hand....
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;46657982]Right. If you're in an airport people from all across the globe are coming across and profiling is pretty inaccurate there anyway.
If you're at the U.S. border looking for illegal immigrants on the other hand....[/QUOTE]
and spot a fucking semi truck with its operator being unresponsive...
wtf is with this guy.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ_FT0v9QAE[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C0UfDmoAUY[/media]
In 2011 a fighting game streamer was coming back home from streaming the T12 tournament and the bus he was on got stopped at one of these checkpoints. They ended up taking 2 camcorders and his laptop which was obviously how he made his living. Luckily, through community donations and whatnot he was able to replace his equipment. He has yet to get his equipment back.
[video=youtube;5eJ_L-EdIXA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eJ_L-EdIXA[/video]
I've probably said it before but these kinds of stops remind me of Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said, what with the Nat and Pol checkpoints every so often. Of course it is different as these checkpoints are trying to check for any illegal immigrants, but still reminds me of them. These people probably assume that because the agents aren't making a big deal about them refusing it must be illegal for the agents to do. That isn't really the case. Let's be honest, if you had to stand out there for six, eight, however many hours and stop every single car, would you really go to the trouble to detain one or two shitheads that don't even look relevant to the reason why you are stopping. No, you'd save yourself time and effort and just let them pass and continue to be dumbasses somewhere else. Kinda funny how people take that and turn it to "DHS IS ILLEGALLY STOPPING CITIZENS AND BREAKING THE LAW OMG"
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