[t]http://imgkk.com/i/mke2.jpg[/t]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26524132[/url]
[quote]New Zealand is to hold a referendum on whether to change the national flag, Prime Minister John Key has announced.
Mr Key, who on Monday called an election for 20 September, said the vote would be held within three years.
The current flag shows the Southern Cross constellation and includes the Union Jack - the UK's national flag - in one corner.
Mr Key said the flag represented a period of history from which New Zealand had moved on.
"It's my belief... that the design of the New Zealand flag symbolises a colonial and post-colonial era whose time has passed," he said in a speech at Victoria University.[/quote]
Could be one of these
[img]http://imgkk.com/i/-ico.png[/img]
[img]http://imgkk.com/i/e4xz.png[/img]
Come on flag with map of Mordor.
Everyone wants a solid black flag with a silver fern in the middle.
I really don't want that :(
I like 2
Current flags fine.
I really like the second one.
The first one is just a bit bland to me. The silver fern is sort of overrated in a way.
seems a bit silly to completely disregard the connection to the commonwealth by going with black and white
New Zealands population is only 15 percent Maori, I don't see the point in making them the face of international recognition.
[editline]10th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raged;44198371]seems a bit silly to completely disregard the connection to the commonwealth by going with black and white[/QUOTE]
79 percent of the population has european descent. NAH LETS SAY FUCK THAT AND GO WITH THE FLAG OF THE MINORITY.
It's as if the United states held a referendum on changing the stars and stripes to this.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Flag_of_the_Iroquois_Confederacy.svg/360px-Flag_of_the_Iroquois_Confederacy.svg.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Dippeggs;44198305]Come on flag with map of Mordor.[/QUOTE]
They should change it to this. It'd be more fitting.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/3W6Poif.jpg[/t]
Flag number 2 seems pretty okay, and then New Zealand can have an iconic leaf just like their commonwealth brethren in Canada.
Also lol polls.
[quote]It is not clear to what extent there is support for changing the flag. One poll late last month showed only [b]28% of respondents wanted to change the flag, compared to 72%[/b] who were happy with the current version.[/quote]
What's wrong with the flag as of right now? Say what you want, but the Union Jack is pretty bitching when it comes to flag designs.
As I've said before, using the silver fern for a flag is fucking tacky
It's so associated with sports, it'd basically be like slapping a football helmet onto your stars and stripes.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44198377]New Zealands population is only 15 percent Maori, I don't see the point in making them the face of international recognition.
[editline]10th March 2014[/editline]
79 percent of the population has european descent. NAH LETS SAY FUCK THAT AND GO WITH THE FLAG OF THE MINORITY.
It's as if the United states held a referendum on changing the stars and stripes to this.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Flag_of_the_Iroquois_Confederacy.svg/360px-Flag_of_the_Iroquois_Confederacy.svg.png[/img][/QUOTE]
In New Zealands defense, out of all the countries natives the british fucked over the Maori kind of fared the best. They're very integrated into our culture. It wouldn't be as big a shock as changing the US flag to the iroquois, for example. While I'd be indifferent if the flag got changed to the Maori flag:
[img]http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/styles/fullsize/public/images/maori-national-flag.gif?itok=2vUNwQv5[/img]
I think one closer to our current flag would be a better choice.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;44198433]What's wrong with the flag as of right now? Say what you want, but the Union Jack is pretty bitching when it comes to flag designs.[/QUOTE]
The government likes to represent the Maori minority in every way they can, despite being only about 15% of the population. Literally every government/council/school related thing has a Maori translation available, despite literally only 4% of the country (out of 4.4million) can speak the language to any degree of fluency. Considering anything the government puts anywhere is plastered with graphics of native New Zealand plants or birds, as well as the frankly blatant affirmative action Maoris have, I'm going to be a bit of a wingnut and say that the New Zealand government is trying as desperately as possible to distance themselves from their European history.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;44198465]The government likes to represent the Maori minority in every way they can, despite being only about 15% of the population. Literally every government/council/school related thing has a Maori translation available, despite literally only 4% of the country (out of 4.4million) can speak the language to any degree of fluency. Considering anything the government puts anywhere is plastered with graphics of native New Zealand plants or birds, as well as the frankly blatant affirmative action Maoris have, I'm going to be a bit of a wingnut and say that the New Zealand government is trying as desperately as possible to distance themselves from their European history.[/QUOTE]
I don't see the issue with pushing forward and promoting the Maori culture, given that it was the indigenous culture before we whiteys rocked up and through the forces of Colonialism pushed most of them into some form of poverty or lower social status. I'm not saying 'let's apologise for what our ancestors did' - I'm saying I don't have an issue with respecting, promoting and engaging with our country's native culture
[QUOTE=Samiam22;44198465]The government likes to represent the Maori minority in every way they can, despite being only about 15% of the population. Literally every government/council/school related thing has a Maori translation available, despite literally only 4% of the country (out of 4.4million) can speak the language to any degree of fluency. Considering anything the government puts anywhere is plastered with graphics of native New Zealand plants or birds, as well as the frankly blatant affirmative action Maoris have, I'm going to be a bit of a wingnut and say that the New Zealand government is trying as desperately as possible to distance themselves from their European history.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they should be entitled to be governed in their own language because their country was invaded and subjugated.
Combine the two shown, black flag with stars
[QUOTE=Maloof?;44198506]I don't see the issue with pushing forward and promoting the Maori culture, given that it was the indigenous culture before we whiteys rocked up and through the forces of Colonialism pushed most of them into some form of poverty or lower social status. I'm not saying 'let's apologise for what our ancestors did' - I'm saying I don't have an issue with respecting, promoting and engaging with our country's native culture[/QUOTE]
A flag is supposed to symbolize an [I]entire[/I] country. New Zealand was made the way it was because of colonialism, having a flag that only represents the Maoris when they're only 15% of the population (even though Pacific Islanders and Asians make up 17% of the population) is a little ridiculous, native or not (and even they aren't immune to the whole 'wiping out' of a culture, if you're going to accuse the British of doing that, don't forget what happened to the Moriori).
Representing the Maori culture is fine but changing to the flag to a distinctly Maori one is not representing literally the other 85% of the population that aren't Maori.
Needs one of these on it
[IMG]http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/files/2012/06/rowi-kiwi-465.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Explosions;44198558]Maybe they should be entitled to be governed in their own language because their country was invaded and subjugated.[/QUOTE]
Subjugation is a stretch considering many British went out of their way to make the Treaty of Waitangi (which the British had to translate for them), and not to mention the Maori had no writing system until the British introduced the Latin alphabet to them, the Maori language is almost as British as it is Maori.
not going to lie though that second flag looks pretty damn awesome.
[editline]11th March 2014[/editline]
first one looks like a shitty pirate flag
[QUOTE=Samiam22;44198619]A flag is supposed to symbolize an [I]entire[/I] country. New Zealand was made the way it was because of colonialism, having a flag that only represents the Maoris when they're only 15% of the population (even though Pacific Islanders and Asians make up 17% of the population) is a little ridiculous, native or not (and even they aren't immune to the whole 'wiping out' of a culture, if you're going to accuse the British of doing that, don't forget what happened to the Moriori).
Representing the Maori culture is fine but changing to the flag to a distinctly Maori one is not representing literally the other 85% of the population that aren't Maori.[/QUOTE]
Are you busting out the whole 'The Maoris ate the Morioris' line from Primary School? The Moriori were native to the Chathams and while yes, they were displaced or eliminated by the Maori, they weren't a part of New Zealand. I don't see what they have to do with anything though - even if your idea of history was correct, we're talking about the current bit of the chain where the British came over and rolled the Maori, not what happened before.
Culturally, Maori is still a big part of the country, the way it functions, the lay of the land, etc, etc, and I don't see why it should be a big part of our flag
[editline]11th March 2014[/editline]
do you know how many actual dragons there are in wales I mean really
I hope it's this one:
[IMG]http://www.tolkienshop.com/contents/media/3020gr.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Asmaedus;44198313]Everyone wants a solid black flag with a silver fern in the middle.
I really don't want that :([/QUOTE]
it looks awesome tho
[QUOTE=Samiam22;44198662]Subjugation is a stretch considering many British went out of their way to make the Treaty of Waitangi (which the British had to translate for them), and not to mention the Maori had no writing system until the British introduced the Latin alphabet to them, the Maori language is almost as British as it is Maori.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? Helping a people to develop a writing system for their previously solely verbal language does not give any sort of ownership to the initially literate party.
Also considering that the Maori weren't indigenous. They colonized the land. They came over during the 1300s, Europeans came over during the 1600s.
That's like calling the Saxons the indigenous people of Britain during the Norman invasion.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;44198763]Are you busting out the whole 'The Maoris ate the Morioris' line from Primary School? The Moriori were native to the Chathams and while yes, they were displaced or eliminated by the Maori, they weren't a part of New Zealand.[/quote]
Yes they were. Chatham Islands is regarded as New Zealand territory
[quote] I don't see what they have to do with anything though - even if your idea of history was correct, we're talking about the current bit of the chain where the British came over and rolled the Maori, not what happened before.[/quote]
if you're not going to acknowledge the history of the rather pacifistic morioris (who were pretty much massacred, hello), then why should i acknowledge the british coming over? It's not like they deliberately tried to wipe out as many Maori as they could.
[quote]
Culturally, Maori is still a big part of the country, the way it functions, the lay of the land, etc, etc, and I don't see why it should be a big part of our flag[/quote]
Indigenous or no, a flag that focuses only on the maori shows a lack of representation of the other 85% of the population who are, or were descended from, immigrants. New Zealand would be nothing, [I]nothing[/I], like it is today if the [I]17 out of 20 people[/I] who are or are descended from immigrants weren't there
[quote]
[editline]11th March 2014[/editline]
do you know how many actual dragons there are in wales I mean really[/QUOTE]
there (probably) aren't any. if you're referring to the dragon on the flag, if i recall correctly, it was believed to be the standard of king arthur
[QUOTE=Maloof?;44198815]What are you talking about? Helping a people to develop a writing system for their previously solely verbal language does not give any sort of ownership to the initially literate party.[/QUOTE]
how should it not? even if the language still belonged to them, if we went by copyright law (unless you have something better to go on), the british would still atleast own the writing system if they were the ones who came up with it.
[QUOTE=anis;44198807]:dance:
[thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/New_Zealand_Flag_Proposal_3_(Kiwi_Flag).png[/thumb][/QUOTE]
Looks like some sort of Major League Kiwi flag
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