Scottish Independance - General

So in recent months the SNP's call for Scottish independance from the UK has gained more of a following, although it's been hinted at quiet a few times in the past it seems that it could become a reality within a few years. Scotland could become seperate from the rest of the UK In all honestly i don't see the point in this day and age. I'm not scottish, i'm english and have lived in england all my life and i completely understand that it's the scotts choice. But, and this is more than likely the same for most of the people in the uk. Half my imediate family are scottish and at least a quater are Irish (NI), i don't reffer to my nationality as english and neither do my scottish reletives, we are British and i personnally would like that to remain. If our nations can fight and die along side one another under the same flag (something that could stay the same even if scotland gain independance) then why the hell can't we just stay united, it just seems to me that Alex Salmond wants more power. Also incase anyone is / was unaware, Our previous 2 primeminsters we're scotts . What do people think?

Dude it's generally cause we want full control of our nation, right now we can only do so much and we get shafted with governments we don't want, like in the last election which brought the Tories into power. I know a lot of folk who call themselves Scottish, not British.

It'll break apart the whole UK, and as someone who lives in Wales, the though of that is terrifying. As i don't think Wales can be independent, but the only other option is to have a conservative majority all the time in Westminster, which is even more terrifying.

Scotland would be a shitty independent country, the only real progression for Scotland would to try and get England to devolve the government to give Scotland more power - but not remove it from the union.

Surely it's a case of united we stand divided we fall, things are fairly shit right now ,but that can only get worse if we split? [QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;34447946]Dude it's generally cause we want full control of our nation, right now we can only do so much and we get shafted with governments we don't want, like in the last election which brought the Tories into power. I know a lot of folk who call themselves Scottish, not British.[/QUOTE] Someone else i know said that but over half the UK did not vote them in, through the stupid way our goverment works they got in power via the coalition, english welsh and NI people hate them too.

If they got independence, i'd laugh if a Scandinavian country invaded them.

I wasn't around for when Thatcher screwed quite a lot of stuff up, so maybe that makes me more against independence since I don't really have much hate for the English, but all I know is that it's a mistake. I really don't want it to happen.

[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;34450145]I wasn't around for when Thatcher screwed quite a lot of stuff up, [B]so maybe that makes me more against independence since I don't really have much hate for the English[/B], but all I know is that it's a mistake. I really don't want it to happen.[/QUOTE] Hope you're not trying to suggest being pro-independent is synonymous with being anti-English?

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;34447946]Dude it's generally cause we want full control of our nation, right now we can only do so much and we get shafted with governments we don't want, like in the last election which brought the Tories into power. I know a lot of folk who call themselves Scottish, not British.[/QUOTE] Most matters are dealt with by your parliament, it's just economic matters that the house of commons deals with from what I know. [editline]29th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Thoughtless;34449190]It'll break apart the whole UK, and as someone who lives in Wales, the though of that is terrifying. As i don't think Wales can be independent, but the only other option is to have a conservative majority all the time in Westminster, which is even more terrifying.[/QUOTE] Us English hate them as well, but sadly Ed Miliband isn't exactly making the Labour party a rational choice either.

lol you scottish whine about westminster having too much power over you when your MPs can vote about matters in england that don't affect you, but not vice versa. england needs a devolved parliament of its own.

[QUOTE=Scrimp;34450116]If they got independence, i'd laugh if a Scandinavian country invaded them.[/QUOTE]And why would a Scandinavian country invade Scotland?

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;34460273]And why would a Scandinavian country invade Scotland?[/QUOTE] good old times

We do need more power. Ultimately; I would be in more favour of a fully devolved parliament, with a shared military etc. [editline]30th January 2012[/editline] However, the nearest thing to that that is being offered is full independence.

Currently, I think Scotland gets quite a good deal. They, it seems (and you can correct me if I am wrong) get the English budget with a bit of money to sweeten it. At least, that is the gist I get (Welsh and Scottish students pay no tuition fees). Again, you can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that Salmond wants a lot of the money, all the oil and none of the debt. Which strikes me as unfair. My view is this: Scotland can have their independence if they want it, but I think that whilst it will hurt the rest of the UK, it will be even worse for Scotland.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;34462627]Currently, I think Scotland gets quite a good deal. They, it seems (and you can correct me if I am wrong) get the English budget with a bit of money to sweeten it. At least, that is the gist I get (Welsh and Scottish students pay no tuition fees).[/QUOTE] We pay around £10,800 p/a php, and receive £10,600 p/a php. Don't ask me to cite the figures, I can't remember where I saw them. However; Scotland is not getting a good deal out of the union. You aren't paying us, as such. The lack of tuition fees is part of the SAAS organisation, which is funded with the sole purpose of furthering Scotland's opportunities by increasing the quality and accessibility of our education.

[i]United we stand, divided we fall[/i] Imagine Canada if Quebec broke off, what about Colombia? What about Newfounland. Now imagine the UK, what would other constituents begin to say? "Free Cymru" or "Free Kernow"? Granted that is a harsh example but the example stands.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;34460273]And why would a Scandinavian country invade Scotland?[/QUOTE] Vikings man, vikings.

As a Canadian of British (Anglo, Scot & Irish) decent, c'mon guys. Do it for us. We don't care what part of the isles you come from, and neither should you. I have a tonne of friends from Quebec, and I can't imagine what it would be like if they were a different country. My first girlfriend was a Quebecker, Quebeckers serve in the forces, they pay taxes and elect officials to Parliament, and often the way Quebec votes will decide the outcome of national elections. Just because they speak a different language than most of us doesn't mean they're any less Canadian. Just as Quebec is an integral part of Canada, Scotland is an integral part of Great Britain, and the United Kingdom. The political union drawn up between the English and the French in the 1860s has changed over time to accomodate new circumstances, and there's no reason why the Scots and English can't do the same. But independence? No.

I couldn't imagine the effects that it would have on the rest of the UK. We would have to change the flag and it could cause a war! In my view Scotland's bid for independence is a risky one and if it goes through... Well I could only imagine the amount of things that would change :/

[QUOTE=TheGuy101;34544456]I couldn't imagine the effects that it would have on the rest of the UK. We would have to change the flag and it could cause a war! In my view Scotland's bid for independence is a risky one and if it goes through... Well I could only imagine the amount of things that would change :/[/QUOTE] War? You genuinely believe there's a possibility of war between Scotland and England if we vote in favour of independence? Don't be silly.. .. we have all the nukes

Scotland would go bankrupt within a few years of declaring independence.

Economically, Scotland would be fucked. Currently the UK has a GDP of about £2.2 trillion, of which Scotland contributes around £150 billion. If Scotland were to break away, it is estimated that they would have a deficit of at least £13 billion and not to mention the share of the debt they would have to take, which considering the fact so much of Scotland is reliant on public services would be quite a lot.

[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;34557567]War? You genuinely believe there's a possibility of war between Scotland and England if we vote in favour of independence? Don't be silly.. .. we have all the nukes[/QUOTE] Nuclear war isn't the only type of war you know? But even if it was a nuclear war.... MMWUUHAHHAAAA!

Wales (and probably Northen Ireland) are going to be fucked if Scotland goes independent. The Welsh and the Scottish have traditionally been more working class than the English overall, and the Tory party make some awful policies that tend to screw over the working classes. I honestly think that if Wales pulls itself together it would be better off going independent if (and only if) Scotland goes independent as the country won't survive the next recession with Tory policies. My main problem with devolution in the UK is that it is uneven, you have Scotland with it's own legal system and lots of law making powers and Northern Ireland and Wales having less powers, but England doesn't have any devolution, this causes a whole range of problems, like all MPs get to vote on issues that only affect England. What we really need, is not independence, but a Assembly for Northern and Southern England Like we have in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and give them all the same powers.

[QUOTE=General Stanley;34558778]Economically, Scotland would be fucked. Currently the UK has a GDP of about £2.2 trillion, of which Scotland contributes around £150 billion. If Scotland were to break away, it is estimated that they would have a deficit of at least £13 billion and not to mention the share of the debt they would have to take, which considering the fact so much of Scotland is reliant on public services would be quite a lot.[/QUOTE] We have a population of 5180200. Britain has a population of 62218761. From this, we can judge that Scotland has 0.083258 of the population of Britain. Using this factor, we can work out that Scotland should have a GDP of 0.1831 Trillion, or £183 billion. It would be conceivable that if we kept the oil, which we should, cut back on our military (Which is planned), and did some minor budgeting across the board, we would be breaking even. [editline]5th February 2012[/editline] This is all based on your figures, so if they are inaccurate, my total figure will be.

The problem is, that you would probably not keep the oil, or only get a fairly minimal stake to it, since it would be seen as a strategic resource for the UK and handled as such. There's a reason why the oil is being handled outside the standard purse as it is. Sure population wise Scotland should have a certain GDP, but not all regions are equal. On top of that there's a fair chance that you would loose a sizeable population portion - usually the higher educated since those are more likely to opt to becoming UK and not scottish citizens. That would certainly have a big impact on you.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;34565310]The problem is, that you would probably not keep the oil, or only get a fairly minimal stake to it, since it would be seen as a strategic resource for the UK and handled as such. There's a reason why the oil is being handled outside the standard purse as it is. Sure population wise Scotland should have a certain GDP, but not all regions are equal. On top of that there's a fair chance that you would loose a sizeable population portion - usually the higher educated since those are more likely to opt to becoming UK and not scottish citizens. That would certainly have a big impact on you.[/QUOTE] The higher educated of us are those who are Scottish because we have free education. I wouldn't be in university if I had to pay for it.

[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;34557567]War? You genuinely believe there's a possibility of war between Scotland and England if we vote in favour of independence? Don't be silly.. .. we have all the nukes[/QUOTE] Do you really think the British government is going to let Scotland keep all their nukes?

I'm for devo-max but not for independence until I definitely know what the SNP's position on further integration with the EU is. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Good article on the 'Does Scotland get more out of the union than it puts in': [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990[/URL] [editline]6th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;34573390]Do you really think the British government is going to let Scotland keep all their nukes?[/QUOTE] a funnier question is do they really think Wales and England will allow Scotland to control that oil, why? Its 54 million (Wales and England) against 5 million Scottish. [QUOTE=Bawbag;34570278]The higher educated of us are those who are Scottish because we have free education. I wouldn't be in university if I had to pay for it.[/QUOTE] Guess who pays for Scottish universality, the English. SNP wants to copy Scandinavia system which relies on small population and high tax rate. The Scotland breaks from the UK your taxes will increase by a lot to pay for all these public sectors that are financed by the English and Welsh.