Court Orders Military to Refer to Chelsea Manning As ‘She’ - Polidicks

[quote]Private Chelsea Manning, who has been forcing the U.S. military into many firsts regarding gender identity, must now be referred to as a woman in all court documents. Manning is serving a 35-year sentence for leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks and asked the military to stop using masculine pronouns in filings related to her appeal. The government argued earlier this month that Manning failed to explain how this would "serve the interest of justice," but now the Army Court of Criminal Appeals has ordered that "future formal papers filed before this court and all future orders and decisions issued by this court shall either be neutral, e.g., Private First Class Manning or appellant, or employ a feminine pronoun." Last month the military agreed to provide Manning with hormone treatment, but it still won't let her grow her hair out like other female prisoners.[/quote] Source: [url]http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/military-must-refer-to-chelsea-manning-as-she.html[/url]

Good for her.

Some good news.

Before anyone starts whining about freedom of speech, I'd like to point out that this ruling is restricted to official documents.

i cant believe he is still being charged with 35 years

[QUOTE=Melnek;47282202]i cant believe he is still being charged with 35 years[/QUOTE] She [editline]8th March 2015[/editline] [sp]I feel like I'm missing a joke, here.[/sp]

[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47282046]Before anyone starts whining about freedom of speech, I'd like to point out that this ruling is restricted to official documents.[/QUOTE] People make freedom of speech arguments about this? That doesn't even make sense, it's like just sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that a gay person is straight.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47282202]i cant believe he is still being charged with 35 years[/QUOTE] weren't you the same guy who referred to her as a 'thing'?

[QUOTE=Melnek;47282202]i cant believe he is still being charged with 35 years[/QUOTE] I can't believe she's not being given the death penalty for treason.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47282202]i cant believe he is still being charged with 35 years[/QUOTE] Should be for life in my opinion. I don't see why they have mercy for this traitor, he doesn't deserve the treatment or being referred to as he wants. You don't give plastic surgery for prisoners nor call them what they want, they are prisoners, the only thing they are entitled to is life, nothing else.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282540]Should be for life in my opinion. I don't see why they have mercy for this traitor, he doesn't deserve the treatment or being referred to as he wants. You don't give plastic surgery for prisoners nor call them what they want, they are prisoners, the only thing they are entitled to is life, nothing else.[/QUOTE] There's a thing called treating prisoners with respect. This includes allowing them to be correctly recognized as the gender they identify with.

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47282565]There's a thing called treating prisoners with respect. This includes allowing them to be correctly recognized as the gender they identify with.[/QUOTE] I believe that respect for the tax payer's money is more important than respect for a prisoner's wishes.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282587]I believe that respect for the tax payer's money is more important than respect for a prisoner's wishes.[/QUOTE] she wouldn't be getting three and a half decades if she didn't pointlessly leak extremely damaging things that had no relation to anything of interest. indirectly supplying what was at the time Al-Qaeda with CC's of troop schedules, guard duty hours, etc. is tantamount to treason.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282587]I believe that respect for the tax payer's money is more important than respect for a prisoner's wishes.[/QUOTE] The total cost of their treatment would cost the individual tax payer like, less than a cent. I think someone else had the formula lying around.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282540]Should be for life in my opinion. I don't see why they have mercy for this traitor, he doesn't deserve the treatment or being referred to as he wants. You don't give plastic surgery for prisoners nor call them what they want, they are prisoners, the only thing they are entitled to is life, nothing else.[/QUOTE] Haha dude i totally agree what this prisoner is suffering from a treatable mental illness? nah lets just let that person rot in the pound with the other animals knowwhatimean? This is pretty much one of the biggest problems the justice system has, these prisoners are still people man.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282540]Should be for life in my opinion. I don't see why they have mercy for this traitor, he doesn't deserve the treatment or being referred to as he wants. You don't give plastic surgery for prisoners nor call them what they want, they are prisoners, the only thing they are entitled to is life, nothing else.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that "they're entitled to life" is just as arbitrary as "they're entitled to be treated for gender dysphoria". We as a society have to draw lines somewhere and honestly I'm drawing mine at the level of "prisoners are humans and should be taken care of to establish a healthy standard of living".

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282587]I believe that respect for the tax payer's money is more important than respect for a prisoner's wishes.[/QUOTE] Theres better budget expenditures to cry about than Manning getting treatment.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282587]I believe that respect for the tax payer's money is more important than respect for a prisoner's wishes.[/QUOTE] In that case, why not just make prisons into a big pit with 10-feet thick stone walls and not bother putting any guards in? If taxpayer money is more important than the health or safety of any of the prisoners, why don't we all just stick them on some abandoned island in the middle of the ocean? When a person goes to prison, they are under the care of the state. That means that any conditions they have must, or at least should, be treated by the state. As gender dysphoria is a recognised condition, not allowing her to continue her transition would be denying a prison care. If your issue is that she's getting it for free whilst others aren't, maybe your issue is with the USA's healthcare system, not her.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47282202]i cant believe he is still being charged with 35 years[/QUOTE] She had her time in internment before the trial counted towards it and will have chance of parole, for the shit she pulled that's really merciful.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282587]I believe that respect for the tax payer's money is more important than respect for a prisoner's wishes.[/QUOTE] well why else would you pay taxes for if not for the government to protect the people under its direct supervision? they took her in, it's their job to keep an eye on her. you don't lock people away and then tell them to fuck off and fix their own suicidal depression from the 6x6 foot cell they inhabit

[QUOTE=Cone;47282789]well why else would you pay taxes for if not for the government to protect the people under its direct supervision? they took her in, it's their job to keep an eye on her. you don't lock people away and then tell them to fuck off and fix their own suicidal depression from the 6x6 foot cell they inhabit[/QUOTE] Except that it isn't a big problem nor a life threatening disease. It's something akin to plastic surgery, it's a luxury not a necessity. It's nice that people are all for transsexual rights and what not but there's bigger problems to worry about than a prisoner getting a fucking sex change and what pronoun is used in documents relating to him.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47282527]I can't believe she's not being given the death penalty for treason.[/QUOTE] its ridiculous what we're letting people get away with in our country smh

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282812]Except that it isn't a big problem nor a life threatening disease. It's something akin to plastic surgery, it's a luxury not a necessity. It's nice that people are all for transsexual rights and what not but there's bigger problems to worry about than a prisoner getting a fucking sex change and what pronoun is used in documents relating to him.[/QUOTE] did you miss the "suicidal depression" part

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282812]Except that it isn't a big problem nor a life threatening disease. It's something akin to plastic surgery, it's a luxury not a necessity. It's nice that people are all for transsexual rights and what not but there's bigger problems to worry about than a prisoner getting a fucking sex change and what pronoun is used in documents relating to him.[/QUOTE] Bigger problems like what? It's not like the [B]entire[/B] country has to come to a grinding halt to give one person a sex change. And don't act like it's so damn hard to use the correct pronouns, because it's not.

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47282842]Bigger problems like what? It's not like the [B]entire[/B] country has to come to a grinding halt to give one person a sex change. And don't act like it's so damn hard to use the correct pronouns, because it's not.[/QUOTE] You can use the correct pronouns for people that deserve it, not for prisoners. And because the country doesn't come to a halt doesn't justify it, by that logic we can give random prisoners plastic surgeries and fancy clothes, as long as the country doesn't come to a halt...

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282859]You can use the correct pronouns for people that deserve it, not for prisoners.[/QUOTE] See back to my thing about respect, and what other people have said. First world countries are expected to treat their prisoners with a measure of respect, such as clean clothes, warm food, clean beds, and addressing them by the gender they identify as. If we decide that prisoners don't deserve that respect, then we end up with prisoners sleeping on cold concrete floors, no running water and regular beatings, as well as basically no outside contact whatsoever. Which is what any first world country wants to avoid.

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47282891]See back to my thing about respect, and what other people have said. First world countries are expected to treat their prisoners with a measure of respect, such as clean clothes, warm food, clean beds, and addressing them by the gender they identify as. If we decide that prisoners don't deserve that respect, then we end up with prisoners sleeping on cold concrete floors, no running water and regular beatings, as well as basically no outside contact whatsoever. Which is what any first world country wants to avoid.[/QUOTE] And as I said before, being referred to with the proper pronouns and having a sex change is [b]luxury[/b], clean clothes, a place to sleep, food etc is more of a necessity, it's things they are entitled to, a sex change on the other hand, is not.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282859]You can use the correct pronouns for people that deserve it, not for prisoners. And because the country doesn't come to a halt doesn't justify it, by that logic we can give random prisoners plastic surgeries and fancy clothes, as long as the country doesn't come to a halt...[/QUOTE] where's your cut off point for that? do you call every man with a buildup of parking tickets "ma'am" just to mentally unbalance them? and fancy clothes aren't necessary to prevent prisoners from committing suicide. having to wear an orange jumpsuit doesn't make you feel like you have too many penises.

[QUOTE=acarvromvroom;47282906]And as I said before, being referred to with the proper pronouns and having a sex change is [b]luxury[/b], clean clothes, a place to sleep, food etc is more of a necessity, it's things they are entitled to, a sex change on the other hand, is not.[/QUOTE] As Cone mentioned, it can lead to suicidal depression. Which should absolutely be avoided. Besides, since when was using correct pronouns ever a luxury? :v:

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47282922]As Cone mentioned, it can lead to suicidal depression. Which should absolutely be avoided. Besides, since when was using correct pronouns ever a luxury? :v:[/QUOTE] It is for prisoners. [QUOTE=Cone;47282915]where's your cut off point for that? do you call every man with a buildup of parking tickets "ma'am" just to mentally unbalance them? and fancy clothes aren't necessary to prevent prisoners from committing suicide. having to wear an orange jumpsuit doesn't make you feel like you have too many penises.[/QUOTE] If the prisoner feels like he has too many penises that's his problem, not the state's. They wouldn't refer to him as a him just to unbalance him, it's to not give him a luxury that a prisooner doesn't deserve. You don't see guards calling prisoners "your highness".