Treyarch will “kill people with facts” over Black Ops 2 balance complaints - Polidicks

[quote] Like their brethren in other FPS games, the bothersome bullets buzzing around in Black Ops 2′s frenetic multiplayer regularly takes flak from players lamenting perceived imbalances. Speaking to Destructoid,[B] Treyarch Design Director David Vonderhaar said he’ll “drop knowledge bombs” backed by recorded match data whenever complaints arise.[/B] “There’s a lot of instrumentation in this game and there’s a lot of data logging, [B]so I know exactly what the power band of a weapon is at all times[/B],” he said. “So, I can combine how something feels with how it’s actually behaving. I just know this is going to happen: A million people are going to Tweet me and tell me [for example], ‘The PDW 57 is overpowered, Vonderhaar. What are you doing?’ [B]“What I’ll do is look at the math and say, ‘Actually, you know what, dude? You’re just good with it. Have fun, because the math says that it’s not overpowered.’ I have the averages. You’re being successful.”[/B] Vonderhaar went on to successfully string together at least three more war-related metaphors for combating complaints, saying, “I’m just going to kill people with facts [with] this game [B]whenever they say ‘This thing is OP.’ I’m going to go ‘Actually, it’s not OP, you’re wrong.’[/B] I’m not going to yell at them or anything, I’m just going to tell them the truth. I don’t have to hide this stuff from people, just drop knowledge bombs on guys. It’s gotta be done! What people are doing is reacting emotionally, and I’m like a really emotional guy so I get it.” [/quote] [h2]The numbers![/h2] Source: [url]http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/16/treyarch-facts-numbers-black-ops-2-balance/[/url]

[b]The Facts Mason. what do they mean!?.[/b]

The only thing that could potentially be bad about this is how different weapons factor in at different skill levels. Look at TF2. A lot of the preferred weapons in competitive play there are ones that people generally dislike in lower level play (ignoring bans obviously). I'm assuming they are going to be smart enough to realize this, but if they aren't there may be some valid complaints being ignored because the majority of average and bad players cannot adequately utilize a weapons full potential.

The numbers, Mason! What do they mean?! ...oh, they mean balance? That's what they mean? Cool, thanks Mason. The numbers might not show some things are op, but that doesn't always mean it isn't OP. I suppose it wouldn't surprise me though if people did mass complain over every weapon due to dying to it a lot. May not be op but it's probably annoying as hell

I think the game is pretty balanced to be honest.

Every gun has the potential to burst down an unsuspecting opponent in a matter of mere second, so.. what's up with "balancing" military shooters?

Numbers are OP, nerf now please [sp]I think I broke the system[/sp]

I don't have to deal with these problems. COD 3 is perfect.

I'd say a weapon only is overpowered if it performs too well beyond its spectrum of effectiveness. Remember MW2's dual 1887? Shotguns in CoD have a certain range of effectiveness, where past a distance, they get weaker, up to the point where they just don't even register the hit. The dual 1887's had a HUGE range, bigger than that of any submachinegun even, and always killed in 1 hit due to firing both at the same time, which would kill faster than an assault rifle at a distance where a shotgun wouldn't even work. Then there was the CM901 with shotgun attachment or whatever on MW3 that fired faster while dealing a heapload of damage per hit, and as always, the UMP.45 on MW2 that killed ANYONE in at the very least 4 hits, even if you didn't have stopping power and had a silencer installed on it, and even at long range. There was also the SCAR that had increadibly precise fire coupled with 2-3 hit kills... The dual FMG-9's on MW3 that could easily wipe out a whole team on its own with its hail of fast shooting and increadibly accurate bullets... The commando perk on MW2 that actually had more range of effectiveness than some shotguns... The FAMAS on BO that SHREDDED people in seconds... And can't really remember anything more, but there were quite a few.

I can't remember any OP weapons in COD4...

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;38483008]I can't remember any OP weapons in COD4...[/QUOTE] The AK was probably the best weapon for just about anything.

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;38483008]I can't remember any OP weapons in COD4...[/QUOTE] P90 Double Tap, Martyrdom

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;38483008]I can't remember any OP weapons in COD4...[/QUOTE] desert eagle was essentially a direct upgrade when you got it but then again it was unlocked really late

Another good reason I don't support Treyarch anymore...

[QUOTE=kman866;38483115]Another good reason I don't support Treyarch anymore...[/QUOTE] What?

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;38483008]I can't remember any OP weapons in COD4...[/QUOTE] I always thought the MP5 was kinda OP

[QUOTE=DogGunn;38482927]I think the game is pretty balanced to be honest.[/QUOTE] The SMG's appear to be a little much.

I kinda like this idea. "It's not OP, you just suck"

You guys complain about call of duty being to similar, but the second they try to change that a bit, you guys dont even give them a chance.

This sound really fucking cool

I heard this game was great and different. After the failure that I consider MW3 to be, I will give it a chance.

Makes sense. Show us facts instead of anecdotal evidence and we're more likely to believe you.

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;38483273]You guys complain about call of duty being to similar, but the second they try to change that a bit, you guys dont even give them a chance.[/QUOTE] Yeah, the games are similar in terms of graphics and gameplay, this is about weapon balance, I don't think anyone cares about the weapon balance not being the same as previous games.

[QUOTE=Da Big Man;38483008]I can't remember any OP weapons in COD4...[/QUOTE] AK-74u, the Desert Eagle and the AK-47. They can kill you quicker than most of the other guns.

[QUOTE=ashxu;38483373]AK-74u, the Desert Eagle and the AK-47. They can kill you quicker than most of the other guns.[/QUOTE] Oh man the 74u with Double Tap is just devastating.

The weapons and such are fine, it's the netcode that sucks dicks, hitboxes lag like 300ms behind you.

There's a lot that pure averages across all players won't tell you. Numbers and factual evidence is always a good thing to have in these sorts of discussions, but evidence is not proof and doesn't constitute an argument on its own.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;38483193]The SMG's appear to be a little much.[/QUOTE] They're more like assault rifles now but at longer ranges you have to burst or else you won't get many hits with the recoil (PDW-57 in mind), but when you start having to burst fire then you're at a big disadvantage because of the other guns with high rates of fire. From my time playing I think they did a pretty good job on the weapons. There's something for everyone, and even the default loadouts have really good weapons. I have to agree that it's all in the skill though because I was playing Capture the Flag against multiple players leveled 40+, and once I got used to their fast pace I was able to climb up the leaderboard with the Remington shotgun, and they were using guns with insane ROF.

[QUOTE=Ninja Duck;38483990]at longer ranges you have to burst or else you won't get many hits with the recoil (PDW-57 in mind), [/quote] I have never had this problem. When I'm using the MP7 or PDW I get kills at ridiculously long range. At least for me, I care less about weapon balance and more about game balance. With SMG's as good as they are there's no point in using the other weapons.

[QUOTE=kman866;38483115]Another good reason I don't support Treyarch anymore...[/QUOTE] Yeah how fucking dare this game company make a balanced weapon system that can be backed up by math. What the fuck treyarch, we want broken games with imbalanced stats!