Police pepper spray Uni students protesting more cuts and fees to Universities in Sydney
39 replies, posted
All on tape
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyWr-whHd7Y&list[/media]
[QUOTE]A group of university students protesting at a speech by Education Minister Christopher Pyne have been pepper-sprayed by police in Sydney.
Some demonstrators were pepper-sprayed when about 40 of them tried to enter the Sydney Masonic Centre just before 11:00am.
Police pepper-sprayed a number of the protesters who managed to get into the foyer of the building and were then escorted out.
Mr Pyne was inside the centre delivering a lecture to educator groups, after he released a report into teacher education earlier in the morning.
The group of protesters outside the building were demonstrating against university deregulation.
ABC footage of the incident showed protesters surging into the building chanting "no cuts, no fees, no corporate universities".
As they were removed from the building, they continued to chant: "This is not a police state, we have the right to demonstrate."
Ridah Hassan from the National Union of Students said the behaviour by police was disgraceful and the students should be able to protest.
"We were pushed by police and I was pepper-sprayed right in the face, my face is on fire," Ms Hassan said.
Supporters poured milk over the faces of some of those injured by the pepper spray.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-13/student-protestors-pepper-sprayed-at-pyne-protest-in-sydney/6090986[/url]
At around 0:30 he looks like he holds the woman there so he can pepper spray her :(
[quote]"We were pushed by police and I was pepper-sprayed right in the face, my face is on fire," Ms Hassan said.[/quote]
Yes - thats where and how mace works.
[quote]"I was maced in the face for demonstrating peacefully," he said.[/quote]
Judging by that video you were sprayed for trying to force entry
Yeah pepper spray tends to happen when you force passed the police.
I don't know the laws in Australia, but what did they honestly expect to happen when they try to force their way past an officer? It's not like they were sitting there doing nothing like that one incident in the US. This looks a lot like a forced entry.
fuck i love protesters, especially at universities: they actually think what they're doing will help! it's adorable
[QUOTE=Pelican;47130470]fuck i love protesters, especially at universities: they actually think what they're doing will help! it's adorable[/QUOTE]
So do you think it's a better idea to just sit at home and not make their voices heard in the slightest? Every bit of opposition to this horrible policy counts, because it allows the media and other politicians to use it as a key point in their debate.
Sitting at home and not doing anything makes no difference whatsoever.
Now, if you mean them trying to force entry, that's another matter.
Pepper spray looks justified to me.
[QUOTE=Pelican;47130470]fuck i love protesters, especially at universities: they actually think what they're doing will help! it's adorable[/QUOTE]
Whereas you sit in your chair eating cheetos and masturbating while judging people on the basis that theyre a little less apathetic about things which matter than you are
[editline]13th February 2015[/editline]
Top job mate
does milk actually help with mace/pepperspray?
cus
[img]http://puu.sh/fQDRF.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Pelican;47130470]fuck i love protesters, especially at universities: they actually think what they're doing will help! it's adorable[/QUOTE]
haha guess who doesn't get the point of a protest
[QUOTE=Laferio;47130639]does milk actually help with mace/pepperspray?
cus
[img]http://puu.sh/fQDRF.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
wouldn't that potentially cause issues? milk in your eyes?
[QUOTE=Laferio;47130639]does milk actually help with mace/pepperspray?
cus
[img]http://puu.sh/fQDRF.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
According to wikipedia,
"A formal study of five often-recommended treatments for skin pain (Maalox, 2% lidocaine gel, baby shampoo, milk, or water) concluded that:[16][17]
...there was no significant difference in pain relief provided by five different treatment regimens. Time after exposure appeared to be the best predictor for decrease in pain..."
[QUOTE=Pelican;47130470]fuck i love protesters, especially at universities: they actually think what they're doing will help! it's adorable[/QUOTE]
I know right that's why I'm still glad no protests have ever worked.
Now if you excuse me I'm off to not vote because I am a woman and take my kids to the white school where blacks aren't allowed.
Wtf did they expect would happen? That the police would let them just rush in and purposefully disrupt the speech? I'm more inclined to believe that the protestors would have fully known that they would be pepper-sprayed, and are attempting to appear as martyrs.
Christopher Pyne has the most punchable face in Australia, but god damn find a better way to protest against him than putting yourself in a situation where you know you will be pepper-sprayed just so you can whinge that we live in a 'police state'.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47130647]
wouldn't that potentially cause issues? milk in your eyes?[/QUOTE]
The idea is the casein in the milk washes away the Capsaicin in the pepper spray. Kind of an old wives tale, but kind of works.
I hope these students one day realise that the average Jane and John actually don't like how the government pays for 60% of our degrees and gives us a loan for the rest, thinking it's a huge amount of taxpayer money thrown away for 'snobby brats' (anecdotal but I've been given shit about it myself both in my social life and at work), and that pulling stunts like this is the exact thing that helps the Liberals with their planned changes to higher education by turning public opinion against university students.
I constantly see this group get referred to as general 'university students'. They are, don't get me wrong, but they are an [B]extremely[/B] small subset of the active activist/aware university students.
To be specific, they are mostly Socialist Alternative members.
These guys are a special type of annoying/stupid - we're talking for the most part all out full on yawmwen level detachment from reality. It's not about the fact that they're protesting - most people support that and 99% of the student population support the causes they're rallying behind. It's the fact they go about it in ridiculous ways. They think that by standing in front of university buildings/blocking library's then not just harassing every student, but at times also being incredibly rude about it people will come to their side. They run petitions on new things every day which I'm 99% sure don't get submitted anywhere, they're just bloody tools to recruit new students (and invite them to their Marxism 101 classes) who come up to actually try and sign it. They are completely inflexible with their beliefs - you're either with them or against them. They make no effort to work within the system (even if it's in parallel with their rally's), no effort to consider that maybe "Fuck Tony Abbott" shirts might be 'awesome' but aren't a great idea to actually effect any change and they just quite simply lack respect. They lie, they [B]intentionally[/B] stir up shit like this so they can scream "police brutality". And they quite frankly just don't fucking represent 99% of university students. They are the reason other activist groups look bad and the reason so many people disregard university student activism.
On an unrelated note, I was actually walking past this today (this was around the corner from the District Court where I was for reasons), they had a huge load of construction work happening on the road - you couldn't see them unless you were on their side of the road and could barely hear them over the loud construction noises.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47130728]I hope these students one day realise that the average Jane and John actually don't like how the government pays for 60% of our degrees and gives us a loan for the rest, thinking it's a huge amount of taxpayer money thrown away for 'snobby brats' (anecdotal but I've been given shit about it myself both in my social life and at work), and that pulling stunts like this is the exact thing that helps the Liberals with their planned changes to higher education by turning public opinion against university students.[/QUOTE]
Depends on your community. There are still many families that see public education as an investment into the future of our country.
Look tbh I don't condone using pepper spray but yes they needed To control the mob
However in the video the police officer holds a woman to only pepper spray her and shove her out
If he was just to shove her into the crowd of protestors as other officers were then I reckon it would be okay
Again I don't think pepper spray was the answer but then again I don't know what is
Looked justified to me.
I don't fault the cop for supposedly holding her there. I'm under the impression that he was overwhelmed with what he just did and he was trying to guide her away but she wasn't moving in the right direction and he didn't try very hard to keep her from moving back toward the door because of that confusion so so when she stepped back toward him (either from having been pepper sprayed or general confusion) he hit her with it.
[QUOTE=Apache249;47130660]According to wikipedia,
"A formal study of five often-recommended treatments for skin pain (Maalox, 2% lidocaine gel, baby shampoo, milk, or water) concluded that:[16][17]
...there was no significant difference in pain relief provided by five different treatment regimens. Time after exposure appeared to be the best predictor for decrease in pain..."[/QUOTE]
The best treatment for pepper spray is cold. Put snow or an ice pack on your face. If the spray has CS in it you don't want to use anything with water in it, that will make the burning sensation worse.
So yes, time is really the only cure.
[QUOTE=MuTAnT;47130761]Depends on your community. There are still many families that see public education as an investment into the future of our country.[/QUOTE]
There are of course many families who see education as an investment for the future. But those people are the people who have gone to university, but that isn't everyone. I'm talking about the people who never went back into the education system after year 12 (or go to tafe at the most), to the people who left school at the earliest possible opportunity such as year 10. They go out there, get an apprenticeship or start with some other shit job, work for fuck-all for a few years and by the time they are qualified for a trade they still earn fuck-all.
They know that university students have 100% of their degrees paid for them upfront, and that the student only pays back 40% of the cost of their degree after they finish and get in to a high-paying job. They then think 'why are these morons protesting, they have it too good and we sink so much of our tax dollars into their degrees, so they can get into a job where they earn twice as much as I do'.
Obviously propaganda from the Liberal party would influence those opinions somewhat, and I myself support maintaining higher education in a state similar to the status quo, but we can't forget that those people who don't go to university are in the majority, they are the biggest supporters of the Liberal party, and student protestors doing shit like this is giving all uni students and the system in general a bad name.
very satisfying to see hippies get what they deserve
[QUOTE=Shaved Balls;47130841]very satisfying to see hippies get what they deserve[/QUOTE]
Yeah damn them for asking the Government to give up on increasing the price of University and making it unaffordable to the poor.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;47130846]Yeah damn them for asking the Government to give up on increasing the price of University and making it unaffordable to the poor.[/QUOTE]
How does it make university unaffordable to the poor? The two major changes are deregulating the fee caps on courses, and changing the government liability-free contribution from 60% to 50%. HECS will still exist, and yes although it does mean that HECS debt will increase, you don't actually pay off HECS debt unless you earn at least $1,000 per week. If you earn less than that you don't pay a cent, as its not a traditional loan (therefore you can't default on it).
I mean, I'm against the deregulation of course fees, but saying its going to make university unaffordable to the poor is simply ridiculous, as no student has to pay a cent towards the cost of their degrees until they finish their degree and get into the workplace.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47130862]How does it make university unaffordable to the poor? The two major changes are deregulating the fee caps on courses, and changing the government liability-free contribution from 60% to 50%. HECS will still exist, and yes although it does mean that HECS debt will increase, you don't actually pay off HECS debt unless you earn at least $1,000 per week. If you earn less than that you don't pay a cent, as its not a traditional loan (therefore you can't default on it).
I mean, I'm against the deregulation of course fees, but saying its going to make university unaffordable to the poor is simply ridiculous, as no student has to pay a cent towards the cost of their degrees until they finish their degree and get into the workplace.[/QUOTE]
The UNSW chancellor already did a paper on fee hikes at UNSW which showed substantial increases to cost of law medicine and engineering after deregulation and the abolition few scholarships to go with that. deregulation will result in big fee increases in the long term. To say otherwise is naive
[editline]13th February 2015[/editline]
Furthermore fears over increased fees have already resulted in les enrolments this year I'm fairly sure i read somewhere
[QUOTE=killerteacup;47131078]The UNSW chancellor already did a paper on fee hikes at UNSW which showed substantial increases to cost of law medicine and engineering after deregulation and the abolition few scholarships to go with that. deregulation will result in big fee increases in the long term. To say otherwise is naive
[editline]13th February 2015[/editline]
Furthermore fears over increased fees have already resulted in les enrolments this year I'm fairly sure i read somewhere[/QUOTE]
No shit course fees will go up. I even implied at that in my post which you quoted, so please read it again.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47131172]No shit course fees will go up. I even implied at that in my post which you quoted, so please read it again.[/QUOTE]
yeah sorry i'd just finished work and was a bit muddled. Here's my actual point. The fee increase is enough of a deterrent that people from low socioeconomic backgrounds will likely be turned off the idea of higher education. This is already happening.
Also you haven't even once mentioned people who don't have the option to go HECS, so that's stupid. Anyone without a citizenship essentially, so refugees, international students, people who moved here when they were like 3 will now find it incredibly difficult to afford higher education, which will serve to increase the class divide here. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I have quite a few friends who would be unable to afford a university degree in Australia because they are not eligible for HECs, despite living here since they were like, 7. So an increase in fees makes it unaffordable for a lot of people who call this place their home despite not having a citizenship.
Also not everyone who ever gets a degree is going to be making enough money to the point that their lifestyle will not be affected by a substantial increase in the cost of their degrees. This is not actually true in many cases. You say that you don't pay off HECS until you earn $1000 a week which is true, but HECs repayments will now last a hell of a lot longer and the average payment will likely increase. So again yes, even though you only start paying when you get $1000 a week, you will on average be earning a lot less and have a lot less disposable income later in life, like that's just a given. On average to an Australian citizen from a low socioeconomic background I can see why they'd see it as 'unaffordable'
like its either a lot of incorrect assumptions you're making here but HECs isn't a cure all and loads of people still have to pay upfront if they want education here, and loads of people are more likely to reject higher education due to the increased costs involved so the idea that deregulation will NOT make it unaffordable for a hell of a lot of people is ridiculous
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47130728]I hope these students one day realise that the average Jane and John actually don't like how the government pays for 60% of our degrees and gives us a loan for the rest, thinking it's a huge amount of taxpayer money thrown away for 'snobby brats' (anecdotal but I've been given shit about it myself both in my social life and at work), and that pulling stunts like this is the exact thing that helps the Liberals with their planned changes to higher education by turning public opinion against university students.[/QUOTE]
Nope:
[quote="SMH"][B]Almost two-thirds of Australians oppose the Abbott government's move to allow universities to set their own fees[/B] amid concern over "$100,000 courses" that would put tertiary education out of the reach of some students.
The first Fairfax Ipsos poll found [B]support for university deregulation... is at just 28 per cent.[/b][/quote]
[url]http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/university-fee-deregulation-opposed-by-most-australians-says-fairfax-ipsos-poll-20141102-11fqmu.html[/url]
thankfully the majority of Australians recognise that low fee degrees are a good thing.
Oh fuck off. Seriously, it's their own faults. I understand why they're protesting and agree 100% completely. But when you try and storm a building, don't act all surprised when police push you back or pepper spray you. Harden the fuck up cunts.
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