I didn't know they fucked up the MP so badly since I have only played the campaigns(every bungie game but ODST, and I have not played H5 yet).
343 seems to have completely missed the point of the franchise. I'm not going to criticize their artstyle or the direction they took the story because I actually liked that but Halo 4 was all corridors while the bungie games had wide open maps that made vehicles really fun to use and necessary to get around. Bungie's MJOLNIR armor was a wearable tank while 343 seems to think that MC moves the suit under his own power and it's made out of lightweight carbon fiber and future materials.
Halo sucks
didn't they call their fans entitled or something
Everything 343 has touched has been ugly as sin or horrifically out of place. Even their own new faction is so out of place that it's baffling that -these- people were left in charge. They don't even know what makes the species unique, so they just redesign them. Despite being established species.
Seriously, look at what they did to the Elites and Forerunner, especially Forerunner architecture, it doesn't even remotely resemble what it should be, and it's so fucking confusing.
Also, if you don't know, they retconned the entire history of the humans and Forerunners. Entirely. Everything about ancient humans creating the flood and de-evolution and proto-covenant spanning across hundreds of thousands of years is so fucking stupid it's incredible
Imo, Halo 5 MP is genuinely fun for what it is.
I don't really see the issue with 343 doing something a bit different with the game franchise. After all, if you keep making the same game you end up with the "Call of duty" effect where people complain that it's the same game every year, while in the same breath complain that the newer call of duties "just isn't cod"
As far as art style and universe go, I can see the complaints then, but to call them out on gameplay for the sole reason of "it's not halo" is just stupid.
Those Gears devs sound like cool guys, almost makes me want to buy their game just to support that attitude towards picking up the reigns on a huge franchise.
Halo 5 MP is great, its just not Halo anymore. I wish 343 would just do what it really seems it wants to do and make its own IP
It's really bizarre just how quickly, and quietly Halo sputtered out. I still remember when it was basically Halo and COD fighting neck and neck over the FPS market.
All of a sudden it's become basically just an amalgamation of Battlefield, Overwatch, and COD on consoles, although even COD is dying; and Counter Strike, Overwatch, and a number of others like PUBG and so on, on PC.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52724487]Imo, Halo 5 MP is genuinely fun for what it is.
I don't really see the issue with 343 doing something a bit different with the game franchise. After all, if you keep making the same game you end up with the "Call of duty" effect where people complain that it's the same game every year, while in the same breath complain that the newer call of duties "just isn't cod"
As far as art style and universe go, I can see the complaints then, but to call them out on gameplay for the sole reason of "it's not halo" is just stupid.[/QUOTE]
Except they didn't do anything different, they just made it more like COD.
Why play a COD knockoff when you can just play COD?
People play Halo because they want to play Halo. It's the same concept EA couldn't understand with their franchises; if people want to play Starcraft, they're not going to play C&C, they're going to play Starcraft.
eh, still won't ruin halo for me.
Its been said before but I cannot stand how 343 nearly completely annihilated Bungie's artstyle. Hell the Halo 2 Remaster looked fucking incredible, better than Halo 5 for sure. Halo always had this "half sci-fi, half conventional" kind of thing going on with its art. Just because its sci-fi doesnt mean everything has to look all space-age and unrecognizable, this would be reflected in the games when going from a mission on the ground to a mission on a Covie ship, the contrast is intense; and its more effective that way. Think of New Mombasa in Halo 2/ODST, or the first few levels of Halo 3; things looked futuristic for sure, but it was still grounded. The original trilogy takes place is 2552 and looks the way it does, 343's games look like they take place 200 years further into the future, but its only like what, a decade?
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;52724496]Those Gears devs sound like cool guys, almost makes me want to buy their game just to support that attitude towards picking up the reigns on a huge franchise.[/QUOTE]
They did a fantastic job with Gears 4 imo, the art and overall game design is very consistent with Epic's games. They added a few weapons and the cover yank but other than that the Gears formula remains mostly untouched.\
The story left a bit to be desired, I compare it to The Force Awakens, where they got the reigns and they're trying to set up new stuff while also giving the old stuff a proper send off. I think with Gears 5 they'll have their feet planted and the story will be much better (I think this for the new Star Wars too)
[QUOTE=Dr.C;52724456]I didn't know they fucked up the MP so badly since I have only played the campaigns(every bungie game but ODST, and I have not played H5 yet).
343 seems to have completely missed the point of the franchise. I'm not going to criticize their artstyle or the direction they took the story because I actually liked that but Halo 4 was all corridors while the bungie games had wide open maps that made vehicles really fun to use and necessary to get around. Bungie's MJOLNIR armor was a wearable tank while 343 seems to think that MC moves the suit under his own power and it's made out of lightweight carbon fiber and future materials.[/QUOTE]
Well in the lore Spartans run around super fast but that in itself is a big problem with 343. They always prioritize extended universe over the actual game. That's why 5s story starts somewhere completely out of nowhere and makes no sense unless you read the comic book or whatever the fuck it was.
[QUOTE=tman450;52724676]Its been said before but I cannot stand how 343 nearly completely annihilated Bungie's artstyle. Hell the Halo 2 Remaster looked fucking incredible, better than Halo 5 for sure. Halo always had this "half sci-fi, half conventional" kind of thing going on with its art. Just because its sci-fi doesnt mean everything has to look all space-age and unrecognizable, this would be reflected in the games when going from a mission on the ground to a mission on a Covie ship, the contrast is intense; and its more effective that way. Think of New Mombasa in Halo 2/ODST, or the first few levels of Halo 3; things looked futuristic for sure, but it was still grounded. The original trilogy takes place is 2552 and looks the way it does, 343's games look like they take place 200 years further into the future, but its only like what, a decade?
They did a fantastic job with Gears 4 imo, the art and overall game design is very consistent with Epic's games. They added a few weapons and the cover yank but other than that the Gears formula remains mostly untouched.\
The story left a bit to be desired, I compare it to The Force Awakens, where they got the reigns and they're trying to set up new stuff while also giving the old stuff a proper send off. I think with Gears 5 they'll have their feet planted and the story will be much better (I think this for the new Star Wars too)[/QUOTE]
I seem to be the odd one out with Gears.
Let me start out by saying that I really like Gears 4's new mechanics. Wallbouncing is now adjusted so it feels more natural, you can slide and mantle jump cover and being able to yank grubs out of cover is nice too.
But I don't like the artstyle with the DeeBees. Hell, even their name feels weird. They don't feel like they belong in Gears and furthermore the game ignores a few of the improvements Judgement had. Mostly weapons, I'd rather have some of the new guns in Judgement then the crappy SMG or Shotgun the DBs use
[QUOTE=Dr.C;52724605]Except they didn't do anything different, they just made it more like COD.
Why play a COD knockoff when you can just play COD?
People play Halo because they want to play Halo. It's the same concept EA couldn't understand with their franchises; if people want to play Starcraft, they're not going to play C&C, they're going to play Starcraft.[/QUOTE]
Might as well not play "Mario X Rabbids Kingdom Battle" because it's not a mario game. Or Rainbow Six Seige because "it's not a rainbow six game"
A lot of really good games would have just been ignored if people keep this mentality. A game should really be judged on its merit rather than whether or not the gameplay is exactly like the previous games.
If you bring up the point those games are spinoffs, you might be right, but even Mario Kart, a main series game, has made drastic changes in gameplay between games. It helps keep the experience fresh and interesting while retaining a lot of core elements, and I think it's a good thing for a franchise to do so.
"Fans think they know what they want, but we know what they actually want" - 343 Industries
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52724770]Might as well not play "Mario X Rabbids Kingdom Battle" because it's not a mario game. Or Rainbow Six Seige because "it's not a rainbow six game"
A lot of really good games would have just been ignored if people keep this mentality. A game should really be judged on its merit rather than whether or not the gameplay is exactly like the previous games.
If you bring up the point those games are spinoffs, you might be right, but even Mario Kart, a main series game, has made drastic changes in gameplay between games. It helps keep the experience fresh and interesting while retaining a lot of core elements, and I think it's a good thing for a franchise to do so.[/QUOTE]
Those are spin-offs. This is the actual series.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52724770]Might as well not play "Mario X Rabbids Kingdom Battle" because it's not a mario game. Or Rainbow Six Seige because "it's not a rainbow six game"
A lot of really good games would have just been ignored if people keep this mentality. A game should really be judged on its merit rather than whether or not the gameplay is exactly like the previous games.
If you bring up the point those games are spinoffs, you might be right, but even Mario Kart, a main series game, has made drastic changes in gameplay between games. It helps keep the experience fresh and interesting while retaining a lot of core elements, and I think it's a good thing for a franchise to do so.[/QUOTE]
Nintendo change the gameplay for Mario Kart, but they don't fundamentally change it from being a kart racer. That's the big difference.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;52724791]Those are spin-offs. This is the actual series.[/QUOTE]
I mentioned that in my third thought.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;52724818]Nintendo change the gameplay for Mario Kart, but they don't fundamentally change it from being a kart racer. That's the big difference.[/QUOTE]
Halo is still a shooter as much as mario kart is a kart racer.
There's still reliance on grenades, floaty jumps, and no air movement, as well as vehicles. They just added elements that speed up gameplay a bit, like sprinting, and jetpacks, which imo, make it a lot more interesting in other ways.
You could also call some of the additions in mario kart 8 very drastic considering it feels much more smoother than say, double dash.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52724830]I mentioned that in my third thought.
Halo is still a shooter as much as mario kart is a kart racer.
There's still reliance on grenades, floaty jumps, and no air movement, as well as vehicles. They just added elements that speed up gameplay a bit, like sprinting, and jetpacks, which imo, make it a lot more interesting in other ways.
You could also call some of the additions in mario kart 8 very drastic considering it feels much more smoother than say, double dash.[/QUOTE]
-snip- that was a bit rude my b dude
Halo 1-3 & Reach are Arena Shooters. Halo 4&5 are Arcade Shooters.
Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart Double Dash are both kart racers
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming / Rude" - Kiwi))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52724832]You're dumb, plain and simple.
Halo 1-3 & Reach are Arena Shooters. Halo 4&5 are Arcade Shooters.
Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart Double Dash are both kart racers[/QUOTE]
And my point is that's not necessarily a bad thing. I enjoy Halo 1-3 for what they are, and 4 and 5 for what they are.
And I would say that Mario Kart 8 is quite different fundamentally from double dash, it borrowing a lot of driving style elements from driving sim games like forza, but I enjoy both of those games for what they are.
[QUOTE=Dr.C;52724605]Except they didn't do anything different, they just made it more like COD.
Why play a COD knockoff when you can just play COD?
People play Halo because they want to play Halo. It's the same concept EA couldn't understand with their franchises; if people want to play Starcraft, they're not going to play C&C, they're going to play Starcraft.[/QUOTE]
Halo was defined as unique, changing it doesn't do anything different because its ALREADY different,
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52724830]Halo is still a shooter as much as mario kart is a kart racer.
[/QUOTE]
This is a really dumb comparison. Shooter is a genre, kart racer is a subgenre. All a game has to do to be a shooter is give you a gun and let you shoot it, Halo's gameplay is a subgenre of that which is defined by preset weapon spawns on the map for players to learn and fight over, simple point and shoot aiming and all players starting the match out equally. When you take away those elements, it moves it to a different subgenre, like how if Nintendo took away the collectible pickups on the track and drifting to boost speed from Mario Kart it wouldn't be a kart racer anymore but a different type of racing game.
I'm still angry that they ruined the Pelican.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AAoiori.png[/IMG]
From a strong defined iconic ship to this ugly curve hind-d wanna be.
The hell is up with those little thursters on the bottom? Those can't do shit.
So much wastes space on the sides of the cockpit, why would you get in through the sides when you've always been able to go in through the back?
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;52724951]This is a really dumb comparison. Shooter is a genre, kart racer is a subgenre. All a game has to do to be a shooter is give you a gun and let you shoot it, Halo's gameplay is a subgenre of that which is defined by preset weapon spawns on the map for players to learn and fight over, simple point and shoot aiming and all players starting the match out equally. When you take away those elements, it moves it to a different subgenre, like how if Nintendo took away the collectible pickups on the track and drifting to boost speed from Mario Kart it wouldn't be a kart racer anymore but a different type of racing game.[/QUOTE]
Fair point, I guess a better example would be Half-Life compared to Half-Life 2, but that's comparison is going down another rabbit trail.
In a nutshell all I wanted to say is, even when games change noticeably from what they originally were, I think they should still be judged on their own merits. I find it unfair and annoying to criticize a game franchise for attempting something new and/or different. Even if it betrays what the franchise originally stood for. This kind of thinking bogs down any kind of creativity and prevents newer more interesting mechanics from appearing which results in the main issue of the Triple A industry.
I'll be honest Gears 4 has alot of micro transaction bullshit that i'm so tired of but the game is solid enough on it's own.
Warzone in Halo 5 is built around those micro transactions and in it's most extreme case Warzone Firefight is an excuse to spend as many of them as possible and if you don't then you simply don't win in that case.
I absolutely hate playing Warzone because there have been numerous times where i've pulled out a power weapon i've been saving only to get sniped or immediately killed the following round once i've bought my req.
It's just such a waste of what could be a pretty fun mode.
I swear, it's like 343 had a goddamn checklist or something of things to fuck up in Halo.
"Gameplay? Yeah we fucked up the gameplay."
"Aesthetic? Yeah, we fucked up the aesthetic."
"Lore? Yeah, we fucked up the lore."
"Cortana? Oh, we DOUBLE fucked up Cortana."
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52724773]"Fans think they know what they want, but we know what they actually want" - 343 Industries[/QUOTE]
When a fanbase dedicates itself to something, it can know something inside and out. I wish more developing games and other forms of media would understand this.
[QUOTE=Cpt.Funkymonk;52724979]I'm still angry that they ruined the Pelican.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AAoiori.png[/IMG]
From a strong defined iconic ship to this ugly curve hind-d wanna be.
The hell is up with those little thursters on the bottom? Those can't do shit.
So much wastes space on the sides of the cockpit, why would you get in through the sides when you've always been able to go in through the back?[/QUOTE]
Wow. I've seen some ugly sci-fi vehicle designs but the nu-pelican is in a class of its own
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