Poll - Younger Republicans see Russia as a friend/ally. - Polidicks

[url]http://hotair.com/archives/2017/02/22/nbc-poll-50-of-republicans-73-of-young-republicans-see-russia-as-an-ally-or-friendly/[/url] [url]http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/data-points/poll-majority-americans-worried-about-war-feel-favorably-toward-nato-n723931[/url] [QUOTE]A follow-up to last night’s post on Gallup’s new data, which found Putin’s favorability among Republicans had risen 20 points in just two years. Even so, he remains unpopular — just 32 percent of GOPers gave him a thumbs up (versus 10 percent of Democrats) while Russia’s favorability among the wider American public topped out at 28 percent, below even Saudi Arabia. What Gallup didn’t show us, though, were differences in how the two parties view Russia. Twenty-eight percent is dismal, but is that because Republicans and Democrats view Russia equally dismally or is it because Democrats strongly disapprove of Moscow after the hacking operations last year while Republicans are lukewarm? The new NBC/SurveyMonkey poll answers that question. At 35/61, NBC’s overall numbers on Russia’s favorability are a bit higher than Gallup’s, but man oh man that partisan divide…[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Views of Russia are net positive within the Republican Party. But that’s not the true bombshell result here. This is: [url]http://hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/rep2.jpg[/url] You’ve got net favorability swings of 20+ points steadily across four different Republican generations. Gadzooks. One partial explanation for that is easy: The oldies grew up during the Cold War and learned to hate and fear Russia because of it. As each successive age group grew further removed from it, their opposition to Russia got softer and softer.[/QUOTE] Been waiting for this for a long time, I personally never understood the pre-Trump hate conservatives have for Russia. It's a country where the culture wars are going in the complete opposite direction than they are in the west, and what's more the people there seem to be OK with it. I think the problem is American conservatism saw itself for the longest time as a uniquely stateside phenomenon, rather than a global movement, hopefully now the younger generation understands what it means to be conservative in the 21st century. Or maybe it's all just partizan...

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246]hopefully now the younger generation understands what it means to be conservative in the 21st century.[/QUOTE] what does it mean

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246]Been waiting for this for a long time, I personally never understood the pre-Trump hate conservatives have for Russia. [/QUOTE] :speechless:

[quote=Whoaly]hopefully now the younger generation understands what it means to be conservative in the 21st century.[/quote] You mean understand it's ok, among other things, to tear down "useless" environmental regulations, treat LGBT individuals as second-class citizens, believe climate change doesn't exist despite scads of verified proof to the contrary (and no, a gibbon throwing a snowball onto the floor of the Florida house doesn't count as evidence it doesn't exist), elect big businessmen and corrupt bastards to the various secretary positions, not dissociate yourself from your businesses if you gain a public office, ignore verifiable facts and offer "alternative facts" to the public, and to behave like a child throwing a temper tantrum on social media when others disagree with them? Sure sounds like things I would want to associate myself with /s

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246] Been waiting for this for a long time, I personally never understood the pre-Trump hate conservatives have for Russia. It's a country where the culture wars are going in the complete opposite direction than they are in the west, and what's more the people there seem to be OK with it. I think the problem is American conservatism saw itself for the longest time as a uniquely stateside phenomenon, rather than a global movement, hopefully now the younger generation understands what it means to be conservative in the 21st century. Or maybe it's all just partizan...[/QUOTE] You can blame a lot of American hatred or disdain for Russia on the cold war, but also because they actively aid people we don't like or are at war with, still to this day, and are borderline totalitarian. They're one of the extremely few superpowers that murders its own reporters for speaking out against the government. [editline]23rd February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51863274]You mean understand it's ok, among other things, to tear down "useless" environmental regulations, treat LGBT individuals as second-class citizens, believe climate change doesn't exist despite scads of verified proof to the contrary (and no, a gibbon throwing a snowball onto the floor of the Florida house doesn't count as evidence it doesn't exist), elect big businessmen and corrupt bastards to the various secretary positions, not dissociate yourself from your businesses if you gain a public office, ignore verifiable facts and offer "alternative facts" to the public, and to behave like a child throwing a temper tantrum on social media when others disagree with them? Sure sounds like things I would want to associate myself with /s[/QUOTE] You know very little about the Republican party if you think Trump is a perfect Republican lol

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246]Been waiting for this for a long time, I personally never understood the pre-Trump hate conservatives have for Russia.[/QUOTE] Cold-War. Hard to miss, but both Russia and USA was at fault for that situation. [QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246]It's a country where the culture wars are going in the complete opposite direction than they are in the west, and what's more the people there seem to be OK with it.[/QUOTE] Putin has consolidated power in Moscow and the Kremlin, most of the country have no real say. Is it a coincidence that most public Putin-critic ends up dead or disappeared, and people not protesting? It is mostly people around and in Moscow which are okay with it, since they get to decide over the remaining 90%. Does that remind you of another situation? Or perhaps it's just fear of reprisal, which the Trump admin seem to push. (Names of climate-scientists, LGTB-rights workers, etc) [QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246]I think the problem is American conservatism saw itself for the longest time as a uniquely stateside phenomenon, rather than a global movement, hopefully now the younger generation understands what it means to be conservative in the 21st century. Or maybe it's all just partizan...[/QUOTE] It is not conservatism, it is called an oligarchy. The US had conservatism, now it is bigbiz with their fingers deep up the WH's ass, politicians acting more as advertisers for said companies than people who are supposed to look after their constituents.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51863276] You know very little about the Republican party if you think Trump is a perfect Republican lol[/QUOTE] "trump is like seriously a fucking idiot lmao" - Sane Republicans 2017 [QUOTE=Whoaly;51863246]I personally never understood the pre-Trump hate conservatives have for Russia[/QUOTE] What is the red scare for 10 points

[QUOTE=J!NX;51863297]"trump is like seriously a fucking idiot lmao" - Sane People 2017 [/QUOTE] Don't thank me

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51863274]You mean understand it's ok, among other things, to tear down "useless" environmental regulations, treat LGBT individuals as second-class citizens, believe climate change doesn't exist despite scads of verified proof to the contrary (and no, a gibbon throwing a snowball onto the floor of the Florida house doesn't count as evidence it doesn't exist), elect big businessmen and corrupt bastards to the various secretary positions, not dissociate yourself from your businesses if you gain a public office, ignore verifiable facts and offer "alternative facts" to the public, and to behave like a child throwing a temper tantrum on social media when others disagree with them? Sure sounds like things I would want to associate myself with /s[/QUOTE] Trump is a means to an end, kind of like how protestants used Henry IIIV's petty desires for power and a new wife to kick-start the English Reformation. Henry wasn't a truly committed Protestant, but what he started led directly to Elizabeth I, and I'd say the reformation was a net-positive.

I can understand maybe thinking Russia is made out to be more of boogey man than it actually is, but actually having a favourable view of it? What's favourable about corruption, poverty, authoritarianism, homophobia etc.? You'd have to be an idiot.

kind of proves the cult like status of trumps base

[QUOTE=J!NX;51863297]What is the red scare for 10 points[/QUOTE] Yeah, but that was in the Cold War, I guess all that Palinesque exceptionalism rhetoric took it's tole.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863302]Trump is a means to an end, kind of like how protestants used Henry IIIV's petty desires for power and a new wife to kick-start the English Reformation. Henry wasn't a truly committed Protestant, but what he started led directly to Elizabeth I, and I'd say the reformation was a net-positive.[/QUOTE] Yeah, Great Britain was doing soooooo well during the Tudor reign - who likes money anyway?

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863302]Trump is a means to an end, kind of like how protestants used Henry IIIV's petty desires for power and a new wife to kick-start the English Reformation. Henry wasn't a truly committed Protestant, but what he started led directly to Elizabeth I, and I'd say the reformation was a net-positive.[/QUOTE] A means to what fucking end? You always deflect legitimate arguments by ignoring the very real consequences that you just don't care about, or flipping off in favor of some dumb historical comparison that isn't even directly applicable. Especially in the case of Protestantism vs Catholicism (Which is greatly ironic considering you're posing the populist conservatives as the protestant side). Counter what he said without using the words 'MSM', 'Hillary', 'Fake News', 'Russia' or some other tosh historical comparison you clearly don't understand.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863311]Yeah, but that was in the Cold War, I guess all that Palinesque exceptionalism rhetoric took it's tole.[/QUOTE] The baby boomer generation kind of took it and ran it into the ground, and then continues doing it even today just look at this "War against socialists" a noisy minority of radical right wingers have. Literally any idea that sounds even remotely "Socialist" to them is automatically a bad idea. You can't fucking talk about health-care or insurance or anything without these assholes blowing up.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51863312]Yeah, Great Britain was doing soooooo well during the Tudor reign - who likes money anyway?[/QUOTE] The state raised a fair amount of money from the dissolution of the monasteries, and later the privateer raids on the Spanish during the reign of Elizabeth. Point is, after the Reformation Britain was on a long upward swing, culminating in one of history's biggest Empires.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51863276]You can blame a lot of American hatred or disdain for Russia on the cold war, but also because they actively aid people we don't like or are at war with, still to this day, and are borderline totalitarian. They're one of the extremely few superpowers that murders its own reporters for speaking out against the government. [editline]23rd February 2017[/editline] You know very little about the Republican party if you think Trump is a perfect Republican lol[/QUOTE] I never said that Trump was a perfect example of being a republican, but most of this is already part of the Republican party's agenda as taken from their website in 2016. Here are some examples of an outmoded way of thinking nicked directly from their manifesto: [quote=Republican party manifesto]Our most urgent task as a Party is to restore the American people’s faith in their government by electing a president who will enforce duly enacted laws, honor constitutional limits on executive authority, and return credibility to the Oval Office. We need a Republican president who will end abuses of power by departments and agencies, like the IRS and the EPA, and by the White House itself. - [b]nothing in this statement has come true with the election of Trump as president[/b] Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society and has for millennia been entrusted with rearing children and instilling cultural values. We condemn the Supreme Court’s ruling in United States v. Windsor, which wrongly removed the ability of Congress to define marriage policy in federal law. - [b]this is a violation of the constitutional rights every American citizen is supposed to enjoy, religion doesn't have a place here at fucking all[/b] Government officials threaten religious colleges and universities with massive fines and seek to control their personnel (sic) decisions. Places of worship for the first time in our history have reason to fear the loss of tax-exempt status merely for espousing and practicing traditional religious beliefs that have been held across the world for thousands of years, and for almost four centuries in America. - [b]how about following the religious principle of not being a scumbag to your brother and taking the plank out of your eye before complaining about the speck in his eye first?[/b] The Constitution’s guarantee that no one can “be deprived of life, liberty or property” deliberately echoes the Declaration of Independence’s proclamation that “all” are “endowed by their Creator” with the inalienable right to life. Accordingly, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth. - [b]no, if you didn't fail AP or high school science you would realize that a fetus is a mass of cells, full stop, until brain birth (which is itself somewhat controversial thanks to its newer status) occurs at ~22-24 weeks.[/b] We oppose the use of public funds to perform or promote abortion or to fund organizations, like Planned Parenthood, so long as they provide or refer for elective abortions or sell fetal body parts rather than provide healthcare. We urge all states and Congress to make it a crime to acquire, transfer, or sell fetal tissues from elective abortions for research, and we call on Congress to enact a ban on any sale of fetal body parts. In the meantime, we call on Congress to ban the practice of misleading women on so-called fetal harvesting consent forms, a fact revealed by a 2015 investigation. We will not fund or subsidize healthcare that includes abortion coverage. - [b]how does this square with a Republican's fundamental belief that everybody should be allowed to make their own decisions instead of the government forcing its erroneous views on them?[/b] In obedience to that principle, we condemn the current Administration’s unconstitutional expansion into areas beyond those specifically enumerated, including bullying of state and local governments in matters ranging from voter identification (ID) laws to immigration, from healthcare programs to land use decisions, and from forced education curricula to school restroom policies. We pledge to restore the proper balance and vertical separation of powers between the federal government and state governments — the governments closest to, and most reflective of, the American people. We encourage states to reinvigorate their traditional role as the laboratories of democracy, propelling the nation forward through local and state innovation. Big government undermines federalism through more than 1,100 grants-in-aid programs that consume more than one-sixth of the federal budget for matters that should be the exclusive responsibility of the states. - [b]Big gubberment is bad as long as it opposes what we think is right, such as the god-given responsibility to teach creationism to students in schools instead of scientific fact[/b][/quote]

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863311]Yeah, but that was in the Cold War, I guess all that Palinesque exceptionalism rhetoric took it's tole.[/QUOTE] You realize that the majority of the people in senate and congress grew up during that cold war right? You can't really blame it on Palin or any other individual (Except Mccarthy). Of course the threat of world destruction took its tole on people. [editline]23rd February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51863332]I never said that Trump was a perfect example of being a republican, but most of this is already part of the Republican party's agenda as taken from their website in 2016. Here are some examples of an outmoded way of thinking nicked directly from their manifesto:[/QUOTE] You also don't know anything if you think each member of their respective party is 100% in line with that party's ideals.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51863336]You realize that the majority of the people in senate and congress grew up during that cold war right? You can't really blame it on Palin or any other individual (Except Mccarthy). Of course the threat of world destruction took its tole on people. [editline]23rd February 2017[/editline] You also don't know anything if you think each member of their respective party is 100% in line with that party's ideals.[/QUOTE] Now you're moving the goalposts some more by implying I'm generalizing all republicans under the same aegis. There are bad democrats as much as there are reasonable, if not good, Republicans. I have no issue with these reasonable party members and reasonable supporters of the Republican party who've shown some means of thinking for themselves instead of agreeing with a majority of their party's decisions.

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51863351]Now you're moving the goalposts some more by implying I'm generalizing all republicans under the same aegis. There are bad democrats as much as there are reasonable, if not good, Republicans. I have no issue with these reasonable party members and reasonable supporters of the Republican party who've shown some means of thinking for themselves instead of agreeing with a majority of their party's decisions.[/QUOTE] I didn't move the goalposts lol, you were literally generalizing all republicans.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863311]Yeah, but that was in the Cold War, I guess all that Palinesque exceptionalism rhetoric took it's tole.[/QUOTE] It's almost like the majority of people in political positions in the US grew up during the Cold War. Boy, I fucking wonder why they still have that mentality.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863324]The state raised a fair amount of money from the dissolution of the monasteries, and later the privateer raids on the Spanish during the reign of Elizabeth. Point is, after the Reformation Britain was on a long upward swing, culminating in one of history's biggest Empires.[/QUOTE] This "ends justify the means" type of thinking is nuts. Reform happened in britain & much later we had big success => the reform was a good thing => a reform embodied by trump is a good thing I'll take the same InSaNe logic. Reform at some point in the history of Persia & Persian empire eventually collapsing much later => the reform was a bad thing => a reform embodied by trump is a bad thing. See insane broken logic. Why are you so consistently wrong? Are you a veteran troll? Who's alt are you? Trump's "reform" empowers some of the nuttiest conservatives in the US. Steve Bannon (influential oddball in Trump's favour) wants to make the US literally a christian state with christian laws. I really understand you disallusionment with ~the establishment~, honestly I share it, Hillary is shit and the complacent corrupt parties on both sides are shit but in this case no change (ie gimps like jeb bush or hillary) would be better than bad change (Corrupt Trump + his troupe of fruitloops). I'm not even against conservatives. That Flashmarsh guy was a good guy (shame hes banned), John Major in the UK seems like a right decent guy, Ron Paul seems reasonable. I disagree strongly with their politics but they care about people and genuinely believe whats best for their countries. Trump and his cronies are entirely self interested and corrupt, they don't give a shit about other people, they want low taxes to benefit themselves and their friends rather than believing it will help their country and their people. Revolution barely ever works. It's a romantic mindset which always ends with shit. Evolution does work, classicism, slow steady progression to better things rather than self destructive and immature "I have nothing to lose, burn everything to the ground we'll start over".

Im not a republican and I would like to see Russia become a closer friend, I dont think a wedge should be driven between the US and Russia despite some of the things that have happened in the past few years. I feel like some people think that Russia is bad in principle, but I disagree with that because that line of thinking sort of precludes things getting better.

[QUOTE=mecaguy03;51863457]Im not a republican and I would like to see Russia become a closer friend, I dont think a wedge should be driven between the US and Russia despite some of the things that have happened in the past few years. I feel like some people think that Russia is bad in principle, but I disagree with that because that line of thinking sort of precludes things getting better.[/QUOTE] So you're basically saying that we should ignore all Russian human rights violations, among all the other terrible things they've been responsible for in the past few years, be ignorant to future issues, just so we can be friends with them? For what purpose? A country that annexes land from another country just for economic benefit is not a country we should be best buds with.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51863302]Trump is a means to an end, kind of like how protestants used Henry IIIV's petty desires for power and a new wife to kick-start the English Reformation. Henry wasn't a truly committed Protestant, but what he started led directly to Elizabeth I, and I'd say the reformation was a net-positive.[/QUOTE] maybe if you're like 8 years old you'd say the reformation was a net-positive what happened is a massive number of religious conflicts, brutal civil wars, several state collapses, the destruction of half of Germany, millions upon millions dying, the intensification of the brutal witchhunts, decreased religious tolerance, not to mention that the development of science was slowed [QUOTE=Whoaly;51863324]The state raised a fair amount of money from the dissolution of the monasteries, and later the privateer raids on the Spanish during the reign of Elizabeth.[/quote] basically stealing loads of stuff and then the queen or king spending it all on booze and jewels [quote]Point is, after the Reformation Britain was on a long upward swing, culminating in one of history's biggest Empires.[/QUOTE] the reformation had nothing to do with either the growth of the british empire nor the industrial revolution

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51863518]So you're basically saying that we should ignore all Russian human rights violations, among all the other terrible things they've been responsible for in the past few years, be ignorant to future issues, just so we can be friends with them? For what purpose? A country that annexes land from another country just for economic benefit is not a country we should be best buds with.[/QUOTE] Nobody unfriended US after they went to Iraq or bombed shit out of Lybia against established no fly zone. People bring up Return of Crimea as violation of all things saint while US was spitting at international laws for years.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;51863534]Nobody unfriended US after they went to Iraq or bombed shit out of Lybia against established no fly zone.[/QUOTE] US has made lots of friends in spite of annexing half of Mexico, Hawaii, etc. it's a long tradition so don't be surprised that they didn't lose many friends

[QUOTE=karimatrix;51863534]Nobody unfriended US after they went to Iraq or bombed shit out of Lybia against established no fly zone.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what the NFZ in Libya meant. Part of establishing a NFZ is bombing AAA defenses so you can enforce the NFZ. Thats the whole point. A strongly worded letter to Ghadaffi would not have stopped him from bringing in arms and mercenaries. Early reports justified the invasion of Iraq but they turned out to not be true. US should have suffered consequences but they didn't. The US looks like a Saint when you compare it to modern day Russia.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51863561]The US looks like a Saint when you compare it to modern day Russia.[/QUOTE] eh it's slowly going the way of Russia the way things are now (and has had some big problems for a long time). I wouldn't be so generous here [quote]US should have suffered consequences but they didn't.[/quote] this applies to like half of US history tbh

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51863518]So you're basically saying that we should ignore all Russian human rights violations, among all the other terrible things they've been responsible for in the past few years, be ignorant to future issues, just so we can be friends with them? For what purpose? A country that annexes land from another country just for economic benefit is not a country we should be best buds with.[/QUOTE] Im not saying we should ignore everything and be best buds, but its not worth completely shutting them out over these issues either. For one thing their space program is pretty well developed and I think a lot of benefit can come out of international cooperation. I also dont think we should hold a grudge, because just like US politics Russian politics will change over time.