Virginia Supreme Court strikes down governor's executive order to restore voting rights to felons - Polidicks

[quote]The Virginia Supreme Court on Friday ruled against Gov. Terry McAuliffe's executive order seeking to reinstate the right to vote to approximately 206,000 Virginians who had been convicted of a felony but had completed their sentences. Writing for a 4-3 court, Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons held that the[B] "assertion that a Virginia governor has the power to grant blanket, group pardons" is "irreconcilable" with the Constitution of Virginia.[/B] The ruling is a political setback to Democrats and was issued in the critical state about an hour before Hillary Clinton announced she would choose former Virginia governor and current Sen. Tim Kaine as her running mate. The court's opinion actually mentions Kaine, noting that when he was governor he contemplated a similar executive order but in the end was advised that he couldn't issue such a sweeping action. "Never before," Lemons wrote, "have any of the prior 71 Virginia governors" issued such a clemency order of any kind, "whether to restore civil rights or grant a pardon, to an entire class of unnamed felons without regard for the nature of the crimes or any other individual circumstances relevant to the request." In a statement, McAuliffe vowed to sign nearly 13,000 individual orders to restore voting rights to felons, a process that some voting rights experts say could be cumbersome and complicated.[/quote] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/politics/virginia-supreme-court-voting-rights-felons/index.html[/url]

...Previous convictions makes you unable to vote?? What?

[QUOTE=Lizzrd;50777636]...Previous convictions makes you unable to vote?? What?[/QUOTE] In some cases, you can appeal to get your rights back. But most of the time, yeah you're shit outta luck.

[QUOTE=Lizzrd;50777636]...Previous convictions makes you unable to vote?? What?[/QUOTE] welcome to the american south, where the system is out to getcha

[QUOTE=Sableye;50777658]welcome to the american south, where the system is out to getcha[/QUOTE] IIRC it's not just the American South that has this policy. It's almost universal across the US.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50777756]IIRC it's not just the American South that has this policy. It's almost universal across the US.[/QUOTE] Yup. In the good ole USA, if you get a felony you're basically screwed for life. Can't vote, can't (legally) get a gun, and your hiring prospects are significantly lower because not everyone wants to hire a convicted felon. It's pretty much nationwide to my knowledge.

From what I know of the American prison system its pretty horrible to begin with. I mean, fuck, if a felon survives that system and doesn't commit crimes again, why further punish them by making them unequal to their own citizens? What harm are they gonna do with their vote?

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50777809]From what I know of the American prison system its pretty horrible to begin with. I mean, fuck, if a felon survives that system and doesn't commit crimes again, why further punish them by making them unequal to their own citizens? What harm are they gonna do with their vote?[/QUOTE] Disenfranchisement makes sure those who suffer under the system can't do anything to vote/speak out against it.

Virginia is a pretty purple state these days, so we do like 50/50 good shit and moronic shit.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;50777838]Virginia is a pretty purple state these days, so we do like 50/50 good shit and moronic shit.[/QUOTE] The state has been leaning more blue for years, but gerrymandering by state representatives have prevented the state from actually changing much of anything.

[QUOTE=elfbarf;50777917]The state has been leaning more blue for years, but gerrymandering by state representatives have prevented the state from actually changing much of anything.[/QUOTE] The beltway and 95 is blue to purple, but the panhandle and the rest of the state is pretty red

There are avenues that felons can go through to have their right to vote restored, if they deserve it. It's the same way with owning firearms. A blanket restoration of 200,000 felon's rights isn't something that is in the interest of the state, I think. It's probably McAwful trying to secure more votes for his party, anyways.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50777966]There are avenues that felons can go through to have their right to vote restored, if they deserve it. It's the same way with owning firearms. [B] A blanket restoration of 200,000 felon's rights isn't something that is in the interest of the state, I think[/B]. It's probably McAwful trying to secure more votes for his party, anyways.[/QUOTE] Why

Being convicted should not strip you of your political rights. The system is afraid of the convicted making their voices heard and losing power. I can't wait when the boomer generation is buried so we can move forward and fix this country.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50777986]Why[/QUOTE] If you do something warranting felony charges, I don't think you should be able to vote. You've demonstrated disregard for society around you in one way or another. Making it through your sentencr doesnt mean you're changed. Once you're out, working, contributing to society and staying out of trouble, thats a different story. You could have a case to have your rights restored. Thats what the processes we have now are for. Want to reform those? All for it. But giving it to all of them on good faith? No. I don't think that having 200,000 new votes being put in place by a guy who knows these people are probably going to be voting in his interests is free of any scrutiny or moral issues.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778018]If you do something warranting felony charges, I don't think you should be able to vote. You've demonstrated disregard for society around you in one way or another. Making it through your sentencr doesnt mean you're changed. Once you're out, working, contributing to society and staying out of trouble, thats a different story. You could have a case to have your rights restored. Thats what the processes we have now are for. Want to reform those? All for it. But giving it to all of them on good faith? No. I don't think that having 200,000 new votes being put in place by a guy who knows these people are probably going to be voting in his interests is free of any scrutiny or moral issues.[/QUOTE] Those damned felons are going to vote to [b]legalize crime and ban police officers!![/b]

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50778025]Those damned felons are going to vote to [b]legalize crime and ban police officers!![/b][/QUOTE] Not what I said, but clever post, I guess. It looks to me like McAuliffe clawing for votes in his camp in a very purple state. Don't think thats right, sorry.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778018]If you do something warranting felony charges, I don't think you should be able to vote. You've demonstrated disregard for society around you in one way or another. Making it through your sentencr doesnt mean you're changed. Once you're out, working, contributing to society and staying out of trouble, thats a different story. You could have a case to have your rights restored. Thats what the processes we have now are for. Want to reform those? All for it. But giving it to all of them on good faith? No. I don't think that having 200,000 new votes being put in place by a guy who knows these people are probably going to be voting in his interests is free of any scrutiny or moral issues.[/QUOTE] Nowadays felonies are handed out like candy. Very trivial charges like telephone threats, underage drinking, writing bad checks, or even using a fake id. Most felons are charged for nonviolent crimes. The process to getting a felony expunged isn't simple either. It can take years and cost hundreds of dollars.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778018]If you do something warranting felony charges, I don't think you should be able to vote. You've demonstrated disregard for society around you in one way or another. Making it through your sentencr doesnt mean you're changed. Once you're out, working, contributing to society and staying out of trouble, thats a different story. You could have a case to have your rights restored. Thats what the processes we have now are for. Want to reform those? All for it. But giving it to all of them on good faith? No. I don't think that having 200,000 new votes being put in place by a guy who knows these people are probably going to be voting in his interests is free of any scrutiny or moral issues.[/QUOTE] Being sentenced is suppose to rehabilitate you for reintegration into society, making it through your sentence is suppose to mean you have changed but in our piss poor prison system a convict only comes out for the worse. Maybe, [I]just maybe[/I], if we adopted a system similar to Norway or other Nordic countries where we actually treated our convicts as people and tried to help them we wouldn't worry about repeat offenses or stripping them of their due rights.

Looks more like they're preventing some precedent from being set or overstepping of the governer's powers? By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. [Quote] Writing for a 4-3 court, Chief Justice Donald W. Lemons held that the "assertion that a Virginia governor has the power to grant blanket, group pardons" is "irreconcilable" with the Constitution of Virginia.[/quote]

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778031]Not what I said, but clever post, I guess. It looks to me like McAuliffe clawing for votes in his camp in a very purple state. Don't think thats right, sorry.[/QUOTE] I understand its a starwman, but the point is that felons can't do any harm to society with their vote. The only thing they have to gain are better treatment for felons, which is something we need in this country. Felonies aren't necessarily violent. It's like when someone gets arrested for sex on the beach and is forced to register as a sex offender. Sure, people will understand once they hear your story, but if you check "felon" on a job application, you won't get a callback to explain

[QUOTE=Mikenopa;50778038]Nowadays felonies are handed out like candy. Very trivial charges like telephone threats, underage drinking, writing bad checks, or even using a fake id. Most felons are charged for nonviolent crimes. The process to getting a felony expunged isn't simple either. It can take years and cost hundreds of dollars.[/QUOTE] ....Which is why I said reform that system, to make it easier for the felons that do deserve it. Then, they get theirs back, and the ones that don't deserve it are kept away from it. [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=proboardslol;50778106]I understand its a starwman, but the point is that felons can't do any harm to society with their vote. The only thing they have to gain are better treatment for felons, which is something we need in this country. Felonies aren't necessarily violent. It's like when someone gets arrested for sex on the beach and is forced to register as a sex offender. Sure, people will understand once they hear your story, but if you check "felon" on a job application, you won't get a callback to explain[/QUOTE] They can do as much harm with their vote as anyone else can, the difference is, they're removed from the consequences. As for the last bit, that's never going to change. If you're a felon going up against someone of equal qualifications, why would you deserve to be chosen? One has a proven history of ignoring rules and boundaries for one reason or another, one doesn't. [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=LtKyle2;50778063]Being sentenced is suppose to rehabilitate you for reintegration into society, making it through your sentence is suppose to mean you have changed but in our piss poor prison system a convict only comes out for the worse. Maybe, [I]just maybe[/I], if we adopted a system similar to Norway or other Nordic countries where we actually treated our convicts as people and tried to help them we wouldn't worry about repeat offenses or stripping them of their due rights.[/QUOTE] There are plenty of people who come out of prison better. "Only come out worse" Is demonstrably false. Keep in mind I do agree the prison system needs a lot of work, though. I don't think Norways approach is what prisoners deserve, but I do believe a higher standard needs to be set.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778135]....Which is why I said reform that system, to make it easier for the felons that do deserve it. Then, they get theirs back, and the ones that don't deserve it are kept away from it. [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] They can do as much harm with their vote as anyone else can, the difference is, they're removed from the consequences.[/quote] They live in society and pay taxes like everyone else. They live with the consequences like everyone else [quote]As for the last bit, that's never going to change. If you're a felon going up against someone of equal qualifications, why would you deserve to be chosen? One has a proven history of ignoring rules and boundaries for one reason or another, one doesn't. [/QUOTE] One has a history of having been convicted. The system is not perfect, and there are felonious charges that shouldn't prevent someone from getting a job, such as drug possession. All that marking someone like that does is ensure that they'll never be able to live a normal life again; that they'll be more likely to turn back to crime to survive and make money.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50778208]They live in society and pay taxes like everyone else. They live with the consequences like everyone else One has a history of having been convicted. The system is not perfect, and there are felonious charges that shouldn't prevent someone from getting a job, such as drug possession. All that marking someone like that does is ensure that they'll never be able to live a normal life again; that they'll be more likely to turn back to crime to survive and make money.[/QUOTE] In the scenario the guy provided he seems to be talking about felons currently incarcerated. In that case they're very much removed from the effects of their votes. And I get the second idea, sort of. However, I think it'd be better to revise what constitutes a felony than to let literally every felon off the hook because maybe they're not as bad as the other guy a few cells down the hall. I don't think it'd be a bad idea to let people who committed less serious crimes be free of having to report it on applications and the like, once they pass through the process to restore the rights they lost (which I mentioned I'm all for being reformed in posts earlier)

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778018]If you do something warranting felony charges, I don't think you should be able to vote. You've demonstrated disregard for society around you in one way or another. Making it through your sentencr doesnt mean you're changed. Once you're out, working, contributing to society and staying out of trouble, thats a different story. You could have a case to have your rights restored. Thats what the processes we have now are for. Want to reform those? All for it. But giving it to all of them on good faith? No. I don't think that having 200,000 new votes being put in place by a guy who knows these people are probably going to be voting in his interests is free of any scrutiny or moral issues.[/QUOTE] i thought taxation without representation was something that americans fought for instead of immediately ripping voting rights from citizens who pay taxes

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778135]....Which is why I said reform that system, to make it easier for the felons that do deserve it. Then, they get theirs back, and the ones that don't deserve it are kept away from it..[/QUOTE] What are you talking about "deserve" for? The franchise isn't something you do or don't "deserve", it's a basic right. When people finished their jail sentence they should be full citizens once more. When you disenfranchise people and in effect make their powers, rights, prosperity, etc reduced after a crime, it's not going to exactly encourage them to be lawful.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50778246]i thought taxation without representation was something that americans fought for instead of immediately ripping voting rights from citizens who pay taxes[/QUOTE] Ok, I'll bite, I guess. Revolutionary soldiers under tyrannical rule are the same as people who willingly brole the law in this scenario. Yeah, once you decide to turn to crime, or blatantly ignore the laws in place, you've proved you have no interest in contributing decent things to society, or think for one reason or another, you're above these laws. That's a problem, especially when you act on it. Once you're out, reformed, and have the evidence to prove it, I'm all for you gaining back the rights you decided to give up when you decided to do the crime that got you nailed for a felony.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778240]In the scenario the guy provided he seems to be talking about felons currently incarcerated. In that case they're very much removed from the effects of their votes. And I get the second idea, sort of. However, I think it'd be better to revise what constitutes a felony than to let literally every felon off the hook because maybe they're not as bad as the other guy a few cells down the hall. I don't think it'd be a bad idea to let people who committed less serious crimes be free of having to report it on applications and the like, once they pass through the process to restore the rights they lost (which I mentioned I'm all for being reformed in posts earlier)[/QUOTE] I'm not saying let felons off the hook. Even after prison, you're a felon. You could have committed some crime 20 years ago and still have a hard time finding a job because you've got that mark on your record. When people are released from jail, the hope is that they'll leave their previous life of criminal actions behind. They can't do that if prison is following them everywhere they go.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50778261]What are you talking about "deserve" for? The franchise isn't something you do or don't "deserve", it's a basic right. When people finished their jail sentence they should be full citizens once more. When you disenfranchise people and in effect make their powers, rights, prosperity, etc reduced after a crime, it's not going to exactly encourage them to be lawful.[/QUOTE] Yeah, when you decide to do the crime, you're in some way dragging down or hurting the society around you, and in some small way of depriving others of their right to live in an orderly society. Wheb you're negatively effecting the rights of others, you lose yours, in my book. It's like that in plenty of places here, so it's not some new, fringe idea. Like I said, once you're out, and clear of trouble for a while, I don't have a problem giving you back the rights you gave up.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778299]Yeah, when you decide to do the crime, you're in some way dragging down or hurting the society around you, and in some small way of depriving others of their right to live in an orderly society. Wheb you're negatively effecting the rights of others, you lose yours, in my book. It's like that in plenty of places here, so it's not some new, fringe idea. Like I said, once you're out, and clear of trouble for a while, I don't have a problem giving you back the rights you gave up.[/QUOTE] Except it's taken away when you're in prison and during your sentence. I see no reason why it should apply afterwards considering how much more difficult life is made for people after leaving prison.