• Election 2016 Thread - Who do you support?
    28 replies, posted
[b]Read the thread[/b] The 2016 Election is starting, and we on facepunch have had to rely on SH threads to comment on issues as they come up. I personally love talking politics so I think it's about time we have a 2016 Election thread. [B]1. Who's Running?[/B] Republicans (Alphabetical): [quote] [U]Jeb Bush[/U] - Former Governor of Florida; Brother of former President George W. Bush and son of Former President George H.W. Bush [U]Ben Carson[/U] - Famous Surgeon; wrote books in the 80s about the struggle of becoming a successful black surgeon [U]Chris Christie[/U] - Governor of New Jersey (A typically democratic state) [U]Ted Cruz[/U] - Senator from Texas; [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement]Tea party[/url] republican [U]Carly Fiorina[/U] - Former CEO of Hewlett-Packard [U]Jim Gilmore[/U] - Former Virginia Governor [U]Lindsey Graham[/U] - Senator from South Carolina [U]Mike Huckabee[/U] - Former Arkansas Governor [U]Bobby Jindal[/U] - Governor of Louisiana [U]John Kasich[/U] - Governor of Ohio [U]George Pataki[/U] - Former New York Governor [U]Rand Paul[/U] - Senator from Kentucky; Son of former candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul [U]Marco Rubio[/U] - Senator from Florida [U]Rick Santorum[/U] - Former Pennsylvania Senator [U]Donald Trump[/U] - Businessman [i]Dropped out:[/i] [U]Rick Perry[/U] - Former Texas Governor [U]Scott Walker[/U] - Former Wisconsin Governor [/quote] Democrats (Alphabetical): [quote] [U]Hillary Clinton[/U] - Former Secretary of state; Former Senator from New York; Wife of Former President Bill Clinton [U]Lawrence Lessig[/U] - Harvard Professor [U]Martin O'Malley[/U] - Former Marylan Governor [U]Bernie Sanders[/U] - Senator from Vermont [I]Special Mention[/I] [U]Joe Biden[/U] - Vice President (not running) [I]Dropped Out[/I] [U]Lincoln Chafee[/U] - Former Rhode Island Governor; switched parties [U]Jim Webb[/U] - Former Senator from Virginia [/quote] [url=http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/2016-presidential-candidates.html](Source)[/url] For those interested but uninformed in politics, here is an often-cited infographic that explains the difference between left/right in the USA [img_thumb]http://infobeautiful4.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/05/1276_left_right_world.png[/img_thumb] [B]2. What are Americans concerned with?[/B] [img]http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/90ik_ykpkue1_oxdl6fk2a.png[/img] [url=http://www.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx](Source)[/url] [B]3. Please note a few things:[/B] - Please cite sources (especially when quoting someone or citing a statistic like who's in the lead and when) - Please be civil; things can get... ahem... [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1438123&p=46538330&viewfull=1#post46538330]heated[/url] around here but it's important we keep our cool so we can focus on the topic at hand - Please get out and vote! Go to [url=http://www.rockthevote.com/register-to-vote/?source=rtv.com-topnavigation]This website to register to vote and find out where/when/how to vote![/url]
First election I'll be able to vote in! :)
Marco Rubio definitely. His speeches are just so fantastic, uplifting, and overall wonderful. Fiorina is cool too. I'd love to see a combo of them for president and VP. Here's a link to one of Rubio's speeches. [URL="http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4552474/senator-marco-rubios-speech-values-voters-summit-2015"]http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4552474/senator-marco-rubios-speech-values-voters-summit-2015[/URL] At least he doesn't act like Trump...
[QUOTE=Samson0722;48990298]Marco Rubio definitely. His speeches are just so fantastic, uplifting, and overall wonderful. Fiorina is cool too. I'd love to see a combo of them for president and VP. Here's a link to one of Rubio's speeches. [URL="http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4552474/senator-marco-rubios-speech-values-voters-summit-2015"]http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4552474/senator-marco-rubios-speech-values-voters-summit-2015[/URL] At least he doesn't act like Trump...[/QUOTE] Rubio: - Opposes gay marriage - Wants to give businesses a $4k per employee tax credit for giving 12 weeks family leave, rather than having the government mandate it
sanders/warren
[QUOTE=Samson0722;48990298]Marco Rubio definitely. His speeches are just so fantastic, uplifting, and overall wonderful. Fiorina is cool too. I'd love to see a combo of them for president and VP. Here's a link to one of Rubio's speeches. [URL="http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4552474/senator-marco-rubios-speech-values-voters-summit-2015"]http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4552474/senator-marco-rubios-speech-values-voters-summit-2015[/URL] At least he doesn't act like Trump...[/QUOTE] Rubio is my favourite Republican by some way, but if I was American I would be unable to vote for them given their illiberal stances on social issues overriding my (general) support for their economic views. Don't like Sanders (for obvious reasons) and I don't like Clinton because she seems to me to have absolutely no charisma, a very poor record in office, and I find her to be generally uninspiring and uninteresting, but if it came down to it (and I was American) I would reluctantly vote for her. I'm studying US politics in my A Level Politics class at the same time as the primaries. I'm only just realising how annoying elections get in the US given the endless cycles of important elections almost every year. [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] Also, update the OP. Chafee and Webb dropped out IIRC.
I like Chris Christie best out of all the republicans. If it came down to hillary vs. christie I might vote Christie
That chart is misleading. Its not the right wing that stands on the side of freedom. Aside from guns the Republican party is almost always unified in supporting bills that censor media, infringe on privacy and give the government more authority. "Don't interfere with our personal lives" nah, even Libertarians want to force their morality on others, banning abortions and even trying to get mosques banned, etc. [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=proboardslol;48997249]I like Chris Christie best out of all the republicans. If it came down to hillary vs. christie I might vote Christie[/QUOTE] That man is a crony though.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48997281]That chart is misleading. Its not the right wing that stands on the side of freedom. Aside from guns the Republican party is almost always unified in supporting bills that censor media, infringe on privacy and give the government more authority. "Don't interfere with our personal lives" nah, even Libertarians want to force their morality on others, banning abortions and even trying to get mosques banned, etc. [editline]27th October 2015[/editline] That man is a crony though.[/QUOTE] Proper libertarians don't want to do anything of the sort.
Sanders. Last election I voted Jill Stein, but I know she wouldn't win even come close to it.
Rubio is third in the republican polls. Who's ready for this debate tonight?
Sanders all the way.
Sanders is the only remotely reasonable option. The fact that he's pushing for a truly progressive agenda sits very well with me. Healthcare, education, and tax reform - I'm glad he's finally giving it a go. He's stood out to me for years as being one of the only sensible figures in our political system. [editline]28th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=FlashMarsh;48997381]Proper libertarians don't want to do anything of the sort.[/QUOTE] "Proper" libertarians don't, but they're still delusional. Many support absurd ideas like undoing the most basic of socialist policies, such as the guarantee of free protection from home intruders and fires, public schools, health services, etc. Ideologically it's an easy trap to fall into if you've never experienced life at the bottom and are blind to the necessity of social support. Personally I don't understand how anyone could be so ignorant that they think that deregulating industry would bring about anything but chaos. Precedent speaks numbers about the nature of mankind. Anyone who thinks that "the market will sort things out" is either ignorant or wealthy enough to not be at risk of harm. The history of the meat, milk, and drug industries unambiguously tell us all that we could ever need to know about the need for intervention in the marketplace. Look at the demography of the libertarian party, it's pretty telling.
I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck about politics but if you vote for Trump you're hopelessly dumb sorry
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;49003299]Sanders is the only remotely reasonable option. The fact that he's pushing for a truly progressive agenda sits very well with me. Healthcare, education, and tax reform - I'm glad he's finally giving it a go. He's stood out to me for years as being one of the only sensible figures in our political system. [editline]28th October 2015[/editline] "Proper" libertarians don't, but they're still delusional. Many support absurd ideas like undoing the most basic of socialist policies, such as the guarantee of free protection from home intruders and fires, public schools, health services, etc. Ideologically it's an easy trap to fall into if you've never experienced life at the bottom and are blind to the necessity of social support. Personally I don't understand how anyone could be so ignorant that they think that deregulating industry would bring about anything but chaos. Precedent speaks numbers about the nature of mankind. Anyone who thinks that "the market will sort things out" is either ignorant or wealthy enough to not be at risk of harm. The history of the meat, milk, and drug industries unambiguously tell us all that we could ever need to know about the need for intervention in the marketplace. Look at the demography of the libertarian party, it's pretty telling.[/QUOTE] I'm not a Libertarian in your extreme sense of the word, I'm just pointing out that what he is claiming is fairly unambiguously false. The issue with what you are saying is that you are saying that all Libertarians are as extreme as that. The reality is that many self-declared Libertarians/Libertarian groups (eg. Adam Smith Institute) DO believe in certain light but effective regulation and believe in all of the most basic social policies. What you are doing is claiming the entire movement/all 'Libertarians' are that extreme, when reality shows that is as unambiguously false as all 'progressives' being Communists. Then again, political words (particularly in the US) are so distorted that you can be talking about entirely different things, as perhaps in how you define 'Libertarian', it only includes weirdos who I would describe as 'anarcho-Capitalists'.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49004540]I'm not a Libertarian in your extreme sense of the word, I'm just pointing out that what he is claiming is fairly unambiguously false. The issue with what you are saying is that you are saying that all Libertarians are as extreme as that. The reality is that many self-declared Libertarians/Libertarian groups (eg. Adam Smith Institute) DO believe in certain light but effective regulation and believe in all of the most basic social policies. What you are doing is claiming the entire movement/all 'Libertarians' are that extreme, when reality shows that is as unambiguously false as all 'progressives' being Communists. Then again, political words (particularly in the US) are so distorted that you can be talking about entirely different things, as perhaps in how you define 'Libertarian', it only includes weirdos who I would describe as 'anarcho-Capitalists'.[/QUOTE] I'm not claiming that every libertarian wants to get rid of every socialist policy (hence the word "many", but those ideas are very real among [URL="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism"]voluntarist[/URL] libertarians (not just the anarchist). "Liberty" is granted to such an extent that people are liable to opt out of policies which afford them protection from self-harm. Uneducated and poor people will seldom sacrifice their resources in the short term for insurance against disaster. (Think about how many people chose not to buy health insurance in spite of the ruinous potential.) Of course, the poor are the most likely to suffer from awful accidents, get sick, etc. Public schools fail to function without taxes from earners of higher incomes. I don't know much about the party in the UK or anywhere else outside of the US, but the exposure I have had to the movement in the US has been rife with this sort of nonsense. There's moderates in every group, but as a whole there are more solid ideologies than libertarianism without question. What is the most basic social policy? I would argue that policies which decrease infant mortality and curtail the spread of disease are essential for the wellbeing of society. Many libertarians would not, given the expense and perceived loss of "liberty". One doesn't have to be an "anarcho-capitalist" to oppose the existence of regulation of things like food. I once met a man who was trying to make the case that "bathtub cheese" should be legal. Another tried to claim that he should be able to do the wiring in his home without having it inspected by a local agency. Bathtub cheese would potentially make someone very ill if taken to market. The man who was wiring his home was mentally ill and did not insulate wires (over confident in his abilities) - and would likely endanger anyone who would see to buy (or visit) his home in the future. Concessions of liberties to a limited extent are necessary for the health of society. There is a reasonable line that must be drawn, and most libertarians tend to be a bit too "soft".
50 days to the Iowa Caucuses. 50 days until some immense butthurt is seen on SH
Trump all the way Sure, he's probably full of shit on half of the things he says, you can label him racist/sexist all you want, and while ultimately everybody that's running is a shit choice, Trump is at least embracing the shit and just throwing it all out there. Of course, this is entirely depending on if he gets the nomination. Other than that my vote is going to either Huckabee or Cruz.
Following Rand Paul is getting really fucking depressing. Most candidates are filling stadiums when they give speeches, Rand Paul can just about fill a room of 50 people. As far as I know, he and Sanders are the only people who are against the NSA.
anyone here watching the republican debate? this is pretty hilarious, anyone who isn't trump or cruz simply doesn't get it.
[QUOTE=Pops;49326796]anyone here watching the republican debate? this is pretty hilarious, anyone who isn't trump or cruz simply doesn't get it.[/QUOTE] Stop.
[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;49327094]Stop.[/QUOTE] i'm sorry you can't handle the truth that everyone running that isn't trump, or cruz to an extent, is an incompetent moron.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48989837] For those interested but uninformed in politics, here is an often-cited infographic that explains the difference between left/right in the USA [img_thumb]http://infobeautiful4.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/05/1276_left_right_world.png[/img_thumb] [/QUOTE] Sorry but this infograph is terribly biased against the right wing.
Frank Underwood, duh. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se44ed4KBMA[/media]
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;49327762]Sorry but this infograph is terribly biased against the right wing.[/QUOTE] Reality has a liberal bias apparently
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;49330614]Reality has a liberal bias apparently[/QUOTE] Not all conservatives are cold-hearted, anti-science warbeasts.
[QUOTE=halofreak472;49312828]Following Rand Paul is getting really fucking depressing. Most candidates are filling stadiums when they give speeches, Rand Paul can just about fill a room of 50 people. As far as I know, he and Sanders are the only people who are against the NSA.[/QUOTE] It's a shame. While I'm biased towards Democrats I did watch Republican debates and I preferred him out of the other Republicans. Ideal? Nah, but I'd rather not someone like Trump get the ticket so I'm going to vote for the more reasonable one with a chance since I can vote in both primaries. Also, bernie supporter here. Trump, Cruz and Huckabee are my unholy 3, it's hard for me to imagine anyone more detached from society and occasionally reality than them. [QUOTE=Daniel Smith;49327762]Sorry but this infograph is terribly biased against the right wing.[/QUOTE] It's just bad in general. It's a nice idea but I don't think it's possible to pull off.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.