Trump plans week-long focus on infrastructure, starting with privatizing air traffic control
42 replies, posted
[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-plans-week-long-focus-on-infrastructure-starting-with-privatizing-air-traffic-control/2017/06/03/12aacb04-47c5-11e7-a196-a1bb629f64cb_story.html?utm_term=.c937b98a2b8f"]Source[/URL]
[QUOTE]President Trump will seek to put a spotlight on his vows to privatize the nation’s air traffic control system and spur $1 trillion in new investment in roads, waterways and other infrastructure with a week-long series of events starting Monday at the White House.
The events — billed as “infrastructure week” — are part of a stepped-up effort since the president’s return a week ago from his first foreign trip to show that the White House remains focused on its agenda, despite cascading headlines about investigations into his administration’s ties to Russia.
The president has invited executives from major airlines to join him as he kicks off the week with one of his more controversial plans: spinning off the air traffic control functions of the Federal Aviation Administration to a nonprofit corporation.
It’s an idea that has been tried many times before, dating back to the Clinton administration and, most recently, last year in legislation championed by Rep. Bill Shuster (R-Pa.), chairman of the House Transportation Committee. His bill never made it to the Senate, where several key GOP members resisted the idea of transferring government assets to a corporation.
Advocates of the idea argue that privatization would speed up glacial efforts by the FAA to modernize a system that still relies on land-based radar at a time when other countries have switched to GPS systems that allow more direct routes at lower costs.
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[Quote]Advocates of the idea argue that privatization would speed up glacial efforts by the FAA to modernize a system that still relies on land-based radar at a time when other countries have switched to GPS systems that allow more direct routes at lower costs.[/quote]
But you guys are already doing that... [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Air_Transportation_System[/url]
[Quote]The Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen) is a new National Airspace System due for implementation across the United States in stages between 2012 and 2025.[1] NextGen proposes to transform America’s air traffic control system from a radar-based system with radio communication to a satellite-based one. GPS technology will be used to shorten routes, save time and fuel, reduce traffic delays, increase capacity, and permit controllers to monitor and manage aircraft with greater safety margins.[2] Radio communications will be increasingly replaced by data exchange and automation will reduce the amount of information the air crew must process at one time.[3][/quote]
2025 is not far off.
Looks like the FAA has been struggling to modernize and since they won't get a funding boost then privitization is the next best option
If they are nonprofit, however, then I don't undsrstand how they'd get funding either...
Also 1 Trillion cashdollars sounds unreasonably high to ask for in one go, but at the same time likely won't be enough to restore most of the nation's infrastructure. I guess too little too late is better than not doing anything at all and waiting for a repeat of the Minneapolis highway collapse. It's a fucking shame that our highways, bridges, and railways have been left to rot basically since their construction, and if this funding goes through I can only hope that it all goes to construction efforts and doesn't line the pockets of some rich dudes taking advantage.
I didn't even realize that ATC was nationalized, I thought each airport hired their own ATC people and that they were employees of the airport as a private entity.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;52312017]I didn't even realize that ATC was nationalized, I thought each airport hired their own ATC people and that they were employees of the airport as a private entity.[/QUOTE]
Its like here where NavCanada handles ATC for the country and then (I think) hands off to airport ATC for landing.
I don't know about back east but theres a building out in Burnaby or Richmond that runs the ATC for the entire western Canadian airspace with an insane amount of dedicated fibre optics going to remote sites in the middle of nowhere.
He better fix our fucking bridges and roads before that. Everything is crumbling and falling apart here. If the lazy cheeto can do something right it better be this.
Awhile ago there was a story and lawsuit against the FAA that they wouldn't hire thousands of college students prepared to become air traffic controllers, only to suddenly get washed out of the program that was setup by the FAA in the 90s. They then would hire Air traffic controllers "Off the street" with no experience necessary.
[url=http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/67803858-story]source[/url]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52311961][URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-plans-week-long-focus-on-infrastructure-starting-with-privatizing-air-traffic-control/2017/06/03/12aacb04-47c5-11e7-a196-a1bb629f64cb_story.html?utm_term=.c937b98a2b8f"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
I'm already dreading his visit to Cincinnati. The Brent Spence bridge desperately needs to be repaired/replaced, yeah, but his visits are a nightmare with traffic, supporters, protesters, and just a giant mess downtown. I guess it gives me an excuse to work from home.
if his plan is just trillions of private projects with government basically doing all the work then fucking forget it.
privatizing atf is just another one of those conservative check boxes that doesn't do shit to address infastructure spending
Seems like a terrible idea.
There's a SHIT ton that goes into ATC, for obvious reasons. It's insanely strictly regulated, and even after you get the job you could lose it for one dumb mistake - because one dumb mistake is all that's keeping, say, a Boeing 747 and a Cessna Citation from slamming into each other two thousand feet above a busy airport. Air traffic controllers need to know the FAA JO 7110.65 (currently version W change 3), the Navair 00-80T-114, all the applicable parts of the 14 CFR, their facility's Letters of Agreement with other facilities and its own facility manual, all like the back of their hands.
Privatization means cutting overhead means skimping on training, letting equipment lapse, shooting from the hip. Usually I'm pretty 50-50 on privatization, but I cannot see ATC corporations ending well in any way. Especially not if their startup costs are paid for by the government, just give that money to the FAA and followup with audits if you're worried it won't go where it needs to. Jesus Christ.
[editline]4th June 2017[/editline]
I didn't even get to the part where folks are complaining about ground-based radar - seriously?? It's not perfect, but it's far from imprecise or operationally incapable. Switching whole hog to GPS would be catastrophic. Little VFR guys will go unseen by TRACON, unless literally 100% of the aircraft in the US upgrade their electronics, which seems pretty horrifically inefficient.
Plus, there go ASR and PAR landings - hope that regional jet made in the 70s being flown by an overworked exhausted pilot is cool with an ILS in bad weather conditions. Especially considering the changes just made to visual landing clearances. Ridiculous.
[quote] spur $1 trillion in new investment in roads, waterways and other infrastructure[/quote]
This is the [I]only[/I] thing I hope he accomplishes before he's impeached.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52312772]This is the [I]only[/I] thing I hope he accomplishes before he's impeached.[/QUOTE]
As much as I hope he can manage this, even if it's the only positive thing his administration manages to do, I'm betting he's going to dangle it out as a re-election promise. He's basically already in campaign mode and I am confident his "rally" here in Cincy will be less about actual action, and more about trying to reignite what is left of his base so that he can score some early campaign points.
for reference, the bridge in Cincinnati, Brent Spence, is literally obsolete, it's expensive for the bandaid fixes, overcrowded, and is considered one of the top transportation emergencies in the US. It's one of those bridges you want to hold your breath on in case it decides to just randomly collapse from all the rust, wear and weight.
[video=youtube;f2341npSDas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2341npSDas[/video]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52312772]impeached.[/QUOTE]
it's time to let go
[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;52312063]He better fix our fucking bridges and roads before that. Everything is crumbling and falling apart here. If the lazy cheeto can do something right it better be this.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that the State's issue?
[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52312853]Isn't that the State's issue?[/QUOTE]
What do you think the Department of Transport does?
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52312873]What do you think the Department of Transport does?[/QUOTE]
Each state has their own DOT.
[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52312853]Isn't that the State's issue?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe it is explicitly a state issue, no
[QUOTE=cccritical;52312726]Seems like a terrible idea.
There's a SHIT ton that goes into ATC, for obvious reasons. It's insanely strictly regulated, and even after you get the job you could lose it for one dumb mistake - because one dumb mistake is all that's keeping, say, a Boeing 747 and a Cessna Citation from slamming into each other two thousand feet above a busy airport. Air traffic controllers need to know the FAA JO 7110.65 (currently version W change 3), the Navair 00-80T-114, all the applicable parts of the 14 CFR, their facility's Letters of Agreement with other facilities and its own facility manual, all like the back of their hands.
Privatization means cutting overhead means skimping on training, letting equipment lapse, shooting from the hip. Usually I'm pretty 50-50 on privatization, but I cannot see ATC corporations ending well in any way. Especially not if their startup costs are paid for by the government, just give that money to the FAA and followup with audits if you're worried it won't go where it needs to. Jesus Christ.
[editline]4th June 2017[/editline]
I didn't even get to the part where folks are complaining about ground-based radar - seriously?? It's not perfect, but it's far from imprecise or operationally incapable. Switching whole hog to GPS would be catastrophic. Little VFR guys will go unseen by TRACON, unless literally 100% of the aircraft in the US upgrade their electronics, which seems pretty horrifically inefficient.
Plus, there go ASR and PAR landings - hope that regional jet made in the 70s being flown by an overworked exhausted pilot is cool with an ILS in bad weather conditions. Especially considering the changes just made to visual landing clearances. Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Took the words out of my mouth. I don't know how I'd feel sending students on solo cross countries knowing they'd be talking to private control centers. The whole things reeks of cutting corners to me
I'm worried the privatization of air traffic control will lead to less prioritization of safety and more on efficiency, not everything needs to be run as a business.
[QUOTE=Saxon;52312960]I'm worried the privatization of air traffic control will lead to less prioritization of safety and more on efficiency, not everything needs to be run as a business.[/QUOTE]
ATC is a perfect example of a situation where it is infinitely more desirable to have a [I]disinterested[/I] party, namely a federal government agency, handling things than a profit-seeking entity.
This is a terrible fucking idea. You do not want private companies handling flights over your house.
[QUOTE=cccritical;52312726]unless literally 100% of the aircraft in the US upgrade their electronics, which seems pretty horrifically inefficient..[/QUOTE]
ADS-B is already required on all but a few (IIRC) aircraft. Its amazing how much things can change when the feds mandate it
[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52312853]Isn't that the State's issue?[/QUOTE]
This is one of the most basic roles for the Commerce Clause in the federal Constitution:
[quote](Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes."[/quote]
The federal government is in charge of the borders between the states and its job is to help facilitate commerce between them. The most fundamental way to do this is to literally build bridges and roads across the country.
[QUOTE=Medevila;52313116]ATC is privatized in dozens of other countries, both in Europe and Canada
[editline]4th June 2017[/editline]
so it's a case of it being a "terrible fucking idea" just because Trump is behind it, or because privatization is a boogeyman?[/QUOTE]
Other countries aviation industry is not the same as the US. Our lack of government-backed airlines means dirty play is going to happen and safety is going to take a further back seat to money.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52313124]This is one of the most basic roles for the Commerce Clause in the federal Constitution:
The federal government is in charge of the borders between the states and its job is to help facilitate commerce between them. The most fundamental way to do this is to literally build bridges and roads across the country.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah sure, I get cross state bridges and interstates/freeways that span multiple States. But everything else is handled by the State's DOT right?
Oregon's DOT is in the process of filling a shit ton of potholes in Portland caused by the abnormal amount of snow and cold temperatures this year, they aren't calling in the feds...
On a somewhat related note. I've had to work with private ambulance companies before. In that sector, privatization cuts training and trades skill for more profit. Private ambulance companies are fucking over city fire departments and charging exponentially more for an inferior services. There's a reason why actual EMT's go through such long training - small mistakes can mean the difference between life and death.
Handing over the sector that maintains safety for thousands of flight averaging 1,000,000 people a day in the US alone to private companies that will do anything for a higher profit margin is quite possibly the dumbest fucking idea this administration has cane up with so far.
[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52313146]Well yeah sure, I get cross state bridges and interstates/freeways that span multiple States. But everything else is handled by the State's DOT right?
Oregon's DOT is in the process of filling a shit ton of potholes in Portland caused by the abnormal amount of snow and cold temperatures this year, they aren't calling in the feds...[/QUOTE]
You sure about that? The Federal Government has had a road grant program for decades. States regularly make use of it.
[QUOTE=MrRalgoman;52313146]Well yeah sure, I get cross state bridges and interstates/freeways that span multiple States. But everything else is handled by the State's DOT right?
Oregon's DOT is in the process of filling a shit ton of potholes in Portland caused by the abnormal amount of snow and cold temperatures this year, they aren't calling in the feds...[/QUOTE]
DOTs often receive funds from the federal government for infrastructure support.
No, not every single road and street in every part of the country is funded and repaired by the feds but they do receive support where it really matters.
As an air traffic controller, I don't really think this is really an inherently bad idea. Not what I'd prefer, but I don't think it would lead to disaster.
The way ATC operates is pretty well regulated, and the rules are clear. Everything said on the radio is recorded, and logs always need to be kept in a specific manner.
If a ATC corporation was breaking FAA regulations, it would be pretty easy to prove. So unless Trump plans on shutting down the FAA, it shouldn't be that bad.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52313547]No, not every single road and street in every part of the country is funded and repaired by the feds but they do receive support where it really matters.[/QUOTE]
In my state, "where it really matters" translates to "politicians' pockets" :v:
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