I find it most irritating for those who are workshy. The scroungers on benefits - government handouts - who are generally unwilling or are not fullfilling enough of their work commitments. The individuals who are lacking the complete dedication to find and commit themselves to work. Rather, they seem to rely on social handouts and just simply leech without putting enough back into the system. The system cannot afford to keep up with all their demands, not to mention it is immoral of their behavior also.
However, of recent there have been myriad complaints of such kind where they have now fallen homeless and cry that their situation is the prey of government institutions. They whine and moan of how their government's have now decided that they must work to receive their benefits, which not only provides them with plenty of work to commit themselves to, but also the experience necessary to build the skills they need to enter the world of work.
"workfare" simply aims to get the economy moving and is an additional attempt at driving the country subject to it out of its recession. Its aim is to simply get things moving. However, these lazy bums simply just want to have free food, water and shelter -- they do not wish to work for it. Or at least don't put enough effort - work - into the system for this. Now that western government's are booting them up the backside to get into work, they cry "slavery!" whereas before they did little work or just simply faked job searches and scrounged through the system. Now most have fallen onto the streets due to their lack of effort and commitment to work.
It is simply the fault of their attitude towards work. If they committed themselves to work, then they would have what they needed and wouldn't be omitted from social assistance. Social assistance is to help those who are genuinely disabled and those who have been made redundant from work/are looking and wanting to work.
Don't forget that it's the money you pay into the system via taxes that are going to these workshy scroungers. The government has answered your calls and is now booting them into work!
[B]The solution? [/B]
Thankfully there are many who side to prevent rampant abuse of the benefits system. I can sympathize with many homeless and disabled if they tried to work but were unable to, or did work and were made redundant. However, it cannot be denied that there are many who simply didn't pick themselves up hard enough when they could and just quite simply refused to commit to their work ethics demanded by benefit institutions -- it is those of whom that cannot be sympathized. Sure, they're homeless and starving but it's their own damn fault for not prioritizing their work commitments. Now they're brought into the real world, they cry out in the name of some fantasy of human rights (which of course too is being rampantly abused by the likes of Cait Reilly).
[URL="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4205997/Human-Rights-court-win-for-jobless-benefits-girl-Cait-Reilly.html"]http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...it-Reilly.html[/URL]
[URL="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3091717/The-Sun-declares-war-on-Britains-benefits-culture.html"]http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...s-culture.html[/URL]
It's gotta stop!
[URL="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4427031/David-Cameron-Idea-of-a-human-right-to-benefits-is-wrong.html"]http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-is-wrong.html[/URL]
Thankfully a leader is trying to prevent the nation from becoming lazy. Thankfully he's trying to prevent people from having a universal right to their most basic sustenance (free water, food, shelter and energy, and possibly communication!). Many of us working folk, like him too, believe that one should have to work for their survival. If they fall homeless and starving - if they weren't disabled/made redundant for any reason other than not working hard enough - then it's their own damn fault. Why should we the tax payers foot their bill?
Like I said, governments are finally taking action to boot these scroungers into work. For the incapacitated, it will soon mandate medical treatment - as it is now with assessments to determine if they're actually fit for work - through which it will then mandate them into work!
[B]Their solution?[/B]
They believe that working should be an option. That somehow in this deluded fantasy of theirs that somehow other's would work to provide for sustenance (e.g. they'll say something like how money would be focused on those who keep society going rather than on footballers, politicians, bankers, etc, and will also say that this would attract people to work whilst providing an option to working (that people who provide sustenance would be paid more, and they believe in their delusion that this would attract people to work whilst enabling working to be an option)), that everyone wouldn't be able to fall homeless/into poverty. I'm sorry but I disagree: this would not work, period.
The system we have now is the best it can be. It's either work for your sustenance or you don't (unless you're wholly incapacitated/have paid for your retirement).
[b]Like minded hardworking folk[/b]
If you people can't see why people should be forced to work, then read through these discussions of likeminded hard working people:
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4370851"]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4370851[/URL]
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4361537"]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4361537[/URL]
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4340557"]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4340557[/URL]
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4272651"]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4272651[/URL]
[URL="http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4266419"]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4266419[/URL]
Okay, there are exceptions to the bunch within those threads but you will find that there are many others who share my views and who will elaborate on why those views are right.
Yep, people that don't make the effort to do something for themselves should get what they deserve. You're shouldnt get anything from anybody else if you're not giving anything back, that's simply how it works. It's just people that think that success comes just like that, and if theyre not getting what they want, then they play the victim role and complain about how the world is so unfair or whatever bullshit they come up with
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I dunno man, I'm one of the chronic unemployed.
The only jobs I've ever had are thanks to nepotism and cronyism.
There's just something about me that puts people off, it always has ever since I was a child. Not sure what it is or why... But why should any of that matter? All I want to do is scrape up enough money to go to school.
I guess somebody's gotta be part of the 7.9%. And it's that reason that I think workfare is flawed. There has to be a certain sector of society that's unemployed. Everyone can't just have a job. That's not how it works.
But yeah, I've been to every place in town looking for a job. Multiple times. I've even looked out of town. It's just something about me that folks don't like.
Yeah!
People should just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps!
If someone is poor and out of a job they are obviously the scum of the earth!
There definitely is not crippling reasons why people in poverty can't get out, it is purely a matter of willingness to work!
[QUOTE=Irkalla;39099761]I dunno man, I'm one of the chronic unemployed.
The only jobs I've ever had are thanks to nepotism and cronyism.
There's just something about me that puts people off, it always has ever since I was a child. Not sure what it is or why... But why should any of that matter? All I want to do is scrape up enough money to go to school.[/QUOTE]
The point is simply just that you shouldn't rely on handouts if you can work. If you can work, then do it and even if it's via a work programme such as "workfare" then just accept it until you land a job elsewhere on minimum wage. It'll be a length process to get back into school but you'll eventually get there and it'll be worth it! You just need to save the money from what you get from employment after you get the proper skills needed for an employer to find you attractive.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39099796]The point is simply just that you shouldn't rely on handouts if you can work. If you can work, then do it and even if it's via a work programme such as "workfare" then just accept it until you land a job elsewhere on minimum wage. It'll be a length process to get back into school but you'll eventually get there and it'll be worth it! You just need to save the money from what you get from employment after you get the proper skills needed for an employer to find you attractive.[/QUOTE]
If being able to work magically meant that I was entitled to a job, then I wouldn't be sitting here discussing this with you.
Also, that's some circular logic.
Person not attractive to employer should get a job and save money to get an education so he'll appear attractive to employers.
The fact is, they need to crack down on how selective minimum wage or near minimum wage employers are. I shouldn't have to go through 3 or 4 rounds of interviews to flip burgers or stock shelves. I should have my criminal record checked, and if clean, I should be given the job and then reassessed periodically to determine my future employment status. If the employer wants to be more selective, then they need to pay their employees more.
Job hunting needs to be more fair.
You need to be holding the ones with the power, the employers, accountable. But what have you done? You've held those without any power accountable.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;39099819]If being able to work magically meant that I was entitled to a job, then I wouldn't be sitting here discussing this with you.
Also, that's some circular logic.
Person not attractive to employer should get a job and save money to get an education so he'll appear attractive to employers.
The fact is, they need to crack down on how selective minimum wage or near minimum wage employers are. I shouldn't have to go through 3 or 4 rounds of interviews to flip burgers or stock shelves. I should have my criminal record checked, and if clean, I should be given the job and then reassessed periodically to determine my future employment status. If the employer wants to be more selective, then they need to pay their employees more.
Job hunting needs to be more fair.
You need to be holding the ones with the power, the employers, accountable. But what have you done? You've held those without any power accountable.[/QUOTE]
Workfare is to help make you more attractive to employers so you can get work on minimum wage. Even though you're working for benefits, it is still a start -- and you won't have a choice at that soon. It'll be tough but you have to go through it to prove to employers that you are willing and committed to work. And then you'll be able to save up for school. The government are helping you get into work but there's no good in whining and moaning about how unfair the system is.
If you cannot get through the system with assistance (i.e. if you cannot get through to work with the government assisting you through that process), then perhaps you are undeserving (i.e. unwilling and non-committed to work).
It is just a simple matter of giving something back to get something, with the added assistance of doing so.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=D3TBS;39099651]Yep, people that don't make the effort to do something for themselves should get what they deserve. You're shouldnt get anything from anybody else if you're not giving anything back, that's simply how it works. It's just people that think that success comes just like that, and if theyre not getting what they want, then they play the victim role and complain about how the world is so unfair or whatever bullshit they come up with[/QUOTE]
Government's are just simply trying to end the "something for nothing" culture.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39100097]Workfare is to help make you more attractive to employers so you can get work on minimum wage. Even though you're working for benefits, it is still a start -- and you won't have a choice at that soon. It'll be tough but you have to go through it to prove to employers that you are willing and committed to work. And then you'll be able to save up for school. The government are helping you get into work but there's no good in whining and moaning about how unfair the system is.
If you cannot get through the system with assistance (i.e. if you cannot get through to work with the government assisting you through that process), then perhaps you are undeserving (i.e. unwilling and non-committed to work).
It is just a simple matter of giving something back to get something, with the added assistance of doing so.[/QUOTE]
I sure wish I lived in whatever country this was where this is a thing.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39100097]Workfare is to help make you more attractive to employers so you can get work on minimum wage. Even though you're working for benefits, it is still a start -- and you won't have a choice at that soon. It'll be tough but you have to go through it to prove to employers that you are willing and committed to work. And then you'll be able to save up for school. The government are helping you get into work but there's no good in whining and moaning about how unfair the system is.
If you cannot get through the system with assistance (i.e. if you cannot get through to work with the government assisting you through that process), then perhaps you are undeserving (i.e. unwilling and non-committed to work).
It is just a simple matter of giving something back to get something, with the added assistance of doing so.
[/QUOTE]
How does this system handle mental illness or physical disability
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39100219]How does this system handle mental illness or physical disability[/QUOTE]
Let's hope it's better than in the US.
In a study conducted on peoples deathbeds, their biggest life regret was working too hard. So... yeah.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39100219]How does this system handle mental illness or physical disability[/QUOTE]
Why do disabilities have to be just physical? I have a sleep issue that's crippling both socially and professionally.
Like, I missed Christmas this year because of it... Was really looking forward to my granny's dressing too.
[editline]4th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39100317]In a study conducted on peoples deathbeds, their biggest life regret was working too hard. So... yeah.[/QUOTE]
In a world where we work for at least a third of our waking life, this is no big surprise.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;39100122]I sure wish I lived in whatever country this was where this is a thing.[/QUOTE]
It is in the US and UK. The governments of these nations eventually mandate that benefit claimants undergo a workfare program to retain access to those benefits.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39100219]How does this system handle mental illness or physical disability[/QUOTE]
Some kinds of work are available for these people, e.g. desk jobs for some of the handicapped. However, if the individual is completely incapacitated then they should be eligible for disability benefit, not merely those who are just experiencing sadness or are unable to walk: those with sadness can get through those instances, perhaps with some type of work support or anti-depressants to help them focus better on work, while those who are unable to walk would be provided the means to help them meet the demands of work (e.g. a wheelchair for a desk job).
The UK government has considered action to demand that the disabled undergo the treatment necessary to help them get back into work if they provide it (e.g. anti-depressants for those who are depressed).
The genuinely disabled are those who are unable to work by any means, e.g. a severely autistic individual for which there is no cure or adequate treatment to get them into work (i.e. such that these are the individuals who are unable to work at all).
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Irkalla;39100349]Why do disabilities have to be just physical? I have a sleep issue that's crippling both socially and professionally.
Like, I missed Christmas this year because of it... Was really looking forward to my granny's dressing too.
[/QUOTE]
Then it's the choice of your own to get support from your doctor. If you are unwilling to get treatment or willing to accept treatment which will allow you to get back into work, then it's your own fault.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
At the very least, if you're unwilling to work for your country then fight for it! Join the army if you don't want to work.
The people who don't like government handouts seem to be the ones who don't need it. Their are plenty of people out there with jobs that are still on food stamps, or welfare Why? Because a lot of companies don't pay their employees enough from them to stay above the poverty line. The average cashier at Wall-Mart makes 18,500 dollars a year.
These people have jobs and they don't even make it above the poverty line, I can't see social assistance being such a terrible thing.
Yes, some people abuse the system, but what are you going to do? Let everyone stuck between a rock and a hard place starve because a few people can't behave?
Food, water, clothes, and shelter are a human right.
I get the feeling you've never experienced this kind of shit. You can't talk about it if you haven't experienced it, not in circumstances such as this. In my case, i held a job for almost a year working for my cousin. Then he fired me because of a lie my coworker told. Up until then i was employee of the month multiple times and an all around hard working person, but my own cousin fired me. That was almost a year ago and I've been applying to every single business i can think of without a single reply until just yesterday. Finding a job isn't as easy as just wanting a job, as someone said above, you need to work to get experience but no one will hire you unless you have experience. Wanting a job doesn't get you a job, working your ass off doesn't get you a job, either. It's honestly luck really; Applying at the right place at the right time doing the right thing is just about the only way to get a job these days if you've never had one before, and have no real experience or degrees and the such. I get where you're coming from but that's just not how this shit works dude, like I've said multiple times you can't just walk out the door and decide to get a job just because you're able, it's not that simple.
[QUOTE=justin1992;39101308]I get the feeling you've never experienced this kind of shit. You can't talk about it if you haven't experienced it, not in circumstances such as this. In my case, i held a job for almost a year working for my cousin. Then he fired me because of a lie my coworker told. Up until then i was employee of the month multiple times and an all around hard working person, but my own cousin fired me. That was almost a year ago and I've been applying to every single business i can think of without a single reply until just yesterday. Finding a job isn't as easy as just wanting a job, as someone said above, you need to work to get experience but no one will hire you unless you have experience. Wanting a job doesn't get you a job, working your ass off doesn't get you a job, either. It's honestly luck really; Applying at the right place at the right time doing the right thing is just about the only way to get a job these days if you've never had one before, and have no real experience or degrees and the such. I get where you're coming from but that's just not how this shit works dude, like I've said multiple times you can't just walk out the door and decide to get a job just because you're able, it's not that simple.[/QUOTE]
You could do voluntary work to improve your experience. For example, perhaps by helping your local community in some way and just merely asking for a reference in return.
Take it to Mass Debates, I don't think the mods take kindly to people using General Discussions as a rage-blog
Just a suggestions
v:v:v
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39100317]In a study conducted on peoples deathbeds, their biggest life regret was working too hard. So... yeah.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they just worked hard on something they didnt like. If you work hard on something you like, it'll be so much better. But since its so hard to find a job that meets your interest, I dont blame them.
TC, if we had a surplus of jobs, you would have a point. However, we have a shortage of jobs, and so the only concern for me about people who live on government assistance without employment is the detrimental effect that a lack of contribution and responsibilities might have on their mental health (having nothing to do, or nothing that you are "required" to do, can lead to depression).
If companies paid their workers enough that people didn't have to work multiple jobs, this wouldn't be a problem.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39100706]At the very least, if you're unwilling to work for your country then fight for it! Join the army if you don't want to work.[/QUOTE]
Oh fuck off.
It's not like army recruiters deliberately target certain groups of people.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39100706]It is in the US and UK. The governments of these nations eventually mandate that benefit claimants undergo a workfare program to retain access to those benefits.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
Some kinds of work are available for these people, e.g. desk jobs for some of the handicapped. However, if the individual is completely incapacitated then they should be eligible for disability benefit, not merely those who are just experiencing sadness or are unable to walk: those with sadness can get through those instances, perhaps with some type of work support or anti-depressants to help them focus better on work, while those who are unable to walk would be provided the means to help them meet the demands of work (e.g. a wheelchair for a desk job).
The UK government has considered action to demand that the disabled undergo the treatment necessary to help them get back into work if they provide it (e.g. anti-depressants for those who are depressed).
The genuinely disabled are those who are unable to work by any means, e.g. a severely autistic individual for which there is no cure or adequate treatment to get them into work (i.e. such that these are the individuals who are unable to work at all).
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
Then it's the choice of your own to get support from your doctor. If you are unwilling to get treatment or willing to accept treatment which will allow you to get back into work, then it's your own fault.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
At the very least, if you're unwilling to work for your country then fight for it! Join the army if you don't want to work.[/QUOTE]
The doctor blows me off when I tell him about it.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr.Heal;39101147]The people who don't like government handouts seem to be the ones who don't need it. Their are plenty of people out there with jobs that are still on food stamps, or welfare Why? Because a lot of companies don't pay their employees enough from them to stay above the poverty line. The average cashier at Wall-Mart makes 18,500 dollars a year.
These people have jobs and they don't even make it above the poverty line, I can't see social assistance being such a terrible thing.
Yes, some people abuse the system, but what are you going to do? Let everyone stuck between a rock and a hard place starve because a few people can't behave?[/QUOTE]
You know, at my last job, my best income filing on taxes was around 7000 USD.
Its like the Dailymail became self-aware and started posting on internet forums.
To be honest, I see myself being a uh... Layabout? Isn't that what folks are calling the male equivalent of a housewife? My skills in the home outweigh my skills out in the workforce.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39105404]Its like the Dailymail became self-aware and started posting on internet forums.[/QUOTE]
If you remember correctly, it WAS rating people dumb that disagreed with it.
[QUOTE=livelonger12;39100706]Then it's the choice of your own to get support from your doctor. If you are unwilling to get treatment or willing to accept treatment which will allow you to get back into work, then it's your own fault.[/QUOTE]
What if you can't afford it?
[quote]At the very least, if you're unwilling to work for your country then fight for it! Join the army if you don't want to work.[/quote]
Cause joining the army is that much different to working.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;39099819]The fact is, they need to crack down on how selective minimum wage or near minimum wage employers are. I shouldn't have to go through 3 or 4 rounds of interviews to flip burgers or stock shelves. I should have my criminal record checked, and if clean, I should be given the job and then reassessed periodically to determine my future employment status. If the employer wants to be more selective, then they need to pay their employees more.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'm a lucky person because I found a place that's just like this. They're not very selective in who they hire, but when people are found to be incompetent, they'll be sent right out the door.
I started working at this warehouse 4 months ago. It's $11.50 an hour, and they're really strict, but it's something. But working there, I see a hell of a lot of what the OP is talking about. There were about 30 people who went through training with me, and now only two of us are left. They're constantly hiring new people because about 90% of the people they hire have no work ethic and get themselves fired. They come in to work when the day is half over, or don't show up at all, and expect to keep their jobs. A lot of them have this really entitled attitude where they think jobs exist solely for their benefit, and they shouldn't have to put forth any effort.
I went through a lot of shit just to get this sub-par job though. For 7 months I was just living with my parents, setting my sights on some lofty imaginary job that was bound to come along sooner or later, putting in a lot of applications that went nowhere.
This might sound crazy, but having a pessimistic attitude kind of helped. Eventually I started to feel like I would never get a [b]great[/b] job, so I was willing to settle for any shitty unforgiving manual-labor job that came my way. And now I have one.
I'm not sure where I was going with this post. I guess if I have anything to say, it's that you have to be a little masochistic if you want to work at all. Expect the worst shit ever, and embrace it if it comes along.
OP, you act as if there are only 2 kinds of disabilities, thhose that allow you to work, and those that don't, you seem rather ignorant about disabilities and believe that for most disabilities it's simply a matter of getting over it, when, it really isn't.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;39100349]Why do disabilities have to be just physical? I have a sleep issue that's crippling both socially and professionally. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I mentioned mental illness in that post
before physical disability
you missed the half of my post that came before the half you didn't miss
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;39108713]OP, you act as if there are only 2 kinds of disabilities, thhose that allow you to work, and those that don't, you seem rather ignorant about disabilities and believe that for most disabilities it's simply a matter of getting over it, when, it really isn't.[/QUOTE]
It's astonishing how badly the system fucks over people whose ability to work is diminished by disability but not wholly removed.
Oh, you can work? Great, go work instead of receiving benefits. Oh, you can only work casually? Good enough, you're working, so no benefits. This is why I have such a hard-on for [url=http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100]minimum income programs[/url] as an alternative to welfare, despite there being basically no large-scale implementations of it
The big problem for the working for benefits thing is that they're not even working at the minimum wage, making it pretty much slave labour.
[editline]5th January 2013[/editline]
Oh and theres also the fact that there are a lot of people who would like to work, but the amount they'd have to pay to travel to the nearest place of work makes it economically retarded to work instead of using benefits. How about we use benefits to fill the money they'd lose traveling to work and thus make it economically viable, or offer them free public transport.
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