• Problems swinging a infinitely long stick
    58 replies, posted
I'm going to blow your mind with this and keep it simple. I'm going to start at the point of unreasonable then head for realistic. Try thinking about the title in your head. Remember this is all theoretical, keep in mind. Consider these variables but they're not real - Light bouncing off the stick to the viewer is always instant even at the end of the stick. - Stick is always weightless or ~1 pound. - Disregard unimportant outside forces I've been on this for a month, I first thought about it when I swung a meter stick from one corner of the room to another. The beginning of thinking of it was I could swing the stick from one galaxy to another, as simply said. Like I was pointing my finger at one then moving my arm and hand to point at another galaxy, that in one second. Our brain in perspective would say this makes perfect sense, then it started to seem less and less possible the more I thought about it. Let's say you have a Infinitely long stick, not really, let's say about a few hundred Parsecs in length and thick enough to grab just right. The stick cannot bend, crack, brake, basically indestructible, for now, and is similar to Iron. In perspective holding a stick this long is ridiculous, looking towards the top the stick would eventually, at a particular angle converges, and shrinks to a point. Length mathematically, 1AU is the approx distance from the earth to the sun ~ 1.49 x 10^11 meters. Light takes 8.3 min to travel 1AU. 1 Parsec is ~206,264.8 AU. [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/dddd.png[/IMG] The easiest factor that kicked in first was almost nothing travels faster than light, so the end of the stick trying to reach the other galaxy in one second would mean, I'd have to swing it initially that fast, so the stick would burst into pure energy. You think your arm is moving slower than the end of a meter stick, tricky huh? [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/dddd2.png[/IMG] Next was, since the stick is literally unbend-able, it wouldn't move, so let's take that out, the motion of me swinging would travel at the speed of sound to the material, Iron, 5130 m/s. I will not do the math it takes for motion to travel to the end of the stick. One part of the stick would be in a different alignment to the other part, even if this meant by a thickness of a proton, it would still be considered a bend. [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Untitleddddddd1.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Untitleddddddd.png%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0[/IMG][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Untitleddddddddd.png[/IMG] adding on to that, I don't have enough energy to carry that wave to the end of the stick, even weightless, few hundred parsecs is like a dust mite on a map of visible space (size of which is good) Now listing all the factors myself would be no fun. What other things would stop me from swinging that stick? maybe I'll draw it if it makes no sense in words. [B]Edit:[/B] The thing about imagining and brain perceptive sense vs real is far off, just like what we thought planes in the sky about their size and speed when we were little kids, then we found/learned the truth. I have the thread answered before I made it, made as much sense as I could before I researched into some things. In other words: I'm trying to make you think in perspective, put down the laws of nature and imagine first then throw in one law at a time and imagine how this wouldn't work and see how and why we have these laws. I'm not dumb I know it's not possible, if you really want to go out of your way, the problem is is what I said wrong show me what is right smoke weeEEEd
im cloSE
Try swininging an immovable rod. :v:
my diCK
[quote]the motion of me swinging would travel at the speed of sound to the material, Iron, 5130 m/s[/quote] Wouldn't the motion be transferred through the stick at the speed of light Well, instantly, but you would see it at the speed of light
[QUOTE=Zeke129;20511533]Wouldn't the motion be transferred through the stick at the speed of light Well, instantly, but you would see it at the speed of light[/QUOTE] Motion/energy is being transferred through a medium aka sound is just that Motion is also relative, huhrurhr [B] [B][/B][/B]
I think the biggest problem would be finding an infinitely long stick.
:psyboom:
The Rod is an external system, therefore any movements you made to it wold go unnoticed, unless you were tiny and standing on the stick. Furthermore, the stick would never accelerate faster than the force which you exert onto it. The only difference is that the part of the stick in the cosmos is inside of a vaccum, where air resistance is not a factor, therefore the stick would warp, and you would drop it. (It would become very top heavy).
Since matter approaching the speed of light increases in weight (I think?), the end of your stick would weigh an infinite amount if it reached light speed, so it would be impossible to swing it that fast. I dunno, I saw something where they were accelerating electrons to near-light speeds and found that the electrons became impossibly heavy and could not be accelerated to 100% light speed. Sorry, it's early and my brains is foggeh.
[QUOTE=PariahKing;20511582]I think the biggest problem would be finding an infinitely long stick.[/QUOTE] Use my penis.
No, I just did this and none of this happened.
damn I CANNOT believe I LET THAT ONE GO
And ask why smoking weed is bad.
swing your arm at 99% at the speed of light, watch the end of the stick turn into a black hole or destroy the universe or become pure energy as it travels faster than light.
Well if it's indefinitely long, it will go around the universe, and eventually will come back where it was. [img]http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5079/ddddo.png[/img] You rotating it, will rotate the entire universe.
[QUOTE=PariahKing;20511582]I think the biggest problem would be finding an infinitely long stick.[/QUOTE] what? just go to an IKEA or something, i have two infinitely long sticks decorating my room
It would take you millions of years to move the stick that's pointing to the next galaxy. Despite the fact that you couldn't move it at all because of the mass inertia. If mass inertia wouldn't exist for the stick you'd move the tip millions times faster than light which would make the tip go backwards in time, maybe even before the universe existed (don't know how fast you travel in the past at what speeds) So you'd have a stick with one end existing now and the other end existing before matter existed. [editline]03:06PM[/editline] I shall now look at the mathematics
I've made a similar theory to this: Lets say you have a cannon that can launch cannon balls at the speed of light. You also have a cart on a track capable of moving things at 30 Miles Per Hour. You attach the cannon to the cart with the front of the cannon pointing in the same direction as the cart will travel. You then set the cart to move at 30mph and fire the cannon. The result is 671,000,000 (Approximate speed of light in Miles per Hour) + 30 (for the cannon) = :psyboom:
[QUOTE=haksword;20512245]I've made a similar theory to this: Lets say you have a cannon that can launch cannon balls at the speed of light. You also have a cart on a track capable of moving things at 30 Miles Per Hour. You attach the cannon to the cart with the front of the cannon pointing in the same direction as the cart will travel. You then set the cart to move at 30mph and fire the cannon. The result is 671,000,000 (Approximate speed of light in Miles per Hour) + 30 (for the cannon) = :psyboom:[/QUOTE] I thought of an airplane that is moving with lightspeed. What if you have a light pointing in the direction of movement, you wouldn't have any light coming out of OR you'd have light traveling at 2 times the speed of light. Or if you have a light on the wings, from the cockpit you wouldn't see anything behind you.
Swinging an infinitely long stick would require an infinite amount of energy. It's not scientifically possible so you can't really ask scientific questions about it. [editline]07:36AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Fijgum;20512293]I thought of an airplane that is moving with lightspeed. What if you have a light pointing in the direction of movement, you wouldn't have any light coming out of OR you'd have light traveling at 2 times the speed of light. Or if you have a light on the wings, from the cockpit you wouldn't see anything behind you.[/QUOTE] No, that's simple, the speed of light is constant. There have been laboratory tests done with that before, a beam of light fired from a moving object moves just as fast as a beam of light fired from a stationary object.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;20512348]No, that's simple, the speed of light is constant. There have been laboratory tests done with that before, a beam of light fired from a moving object moves just as fast as a beam of light fired from a stationary object.[/QUOTE] But that would make the speed of light [I]not[/I] constant - light would be slower the faster the source moves...
To people talking about speed of light: You don't use the common way of vector addition when you're talking about relativistic speeds ([img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/8/9/0895ea144b9cfe117978c567c2a7a500.png[/img], s is the combined velocity, v and u the separate velocities to be added) You use this: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/0/3/2035aab1ba5af2e1ff296512b6a57779.png[/img] Now, even if both v and u = c, you would still get the result that s = c : s = c + c / [1 + (cc/c^2)] = 2c / (1+1) = 2c/2=c EDIT All velocities are really added with the relativistic formula. It's just that when u and v are not at relativistic levels, the denominator is really close to 1 and it doesn't matter that much. [QUOTE=Craptasket;20511477]- Light bouncing off the stick to the viewer is always instant even at the end of the stick.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Craptasket;20511477] The easiest factor that kicked in first was almost nothing travels faster than light[/QUOTE] You can't assume these both at the same time. You're contradicting yourself. Also, if you have a stick that's infinitely long and has any mass at all, you would need infinite energy to move it.
The real problem with swinging an infinitely long stick is that you will never find one that isn't in e-penis form. Thus all your math and logic is wasted space.
[QUOTE=Block;20512501] You can't assume these both at the same time. You're contradicting yourself.[/QUOTE] I added the first line to get people comfortable imagining the stick, and only implied it to only visible light bouncing off the stick, before I get run down with "WE CAN'T SEE THE END OF THE STICK OH MY GOD" which would be true, in a real case. So I'm not really contradicting myself
[QUOTE=haksword;20512245]I've made a similar theory to this: Lets say you have a cannon that can launch cannon balls at the speed of light. You also have a cart on a track capable of moving things at 30 Miles Per Hour. You attach the cannon to the cart with the front of the cannon pointing in the same direction as the cart will travel. You then set the cart to move at 30mph and fire the cannon. The result is 671,000,000 (Approximate speed of light in Miles per Hour) + 30 (for the cannon) = :psyboom:[/QUOTE] You're a bit late, the theory of relativity explained this in like 1914 or someshit.
hot thinkin
[QUOTE=Kybalt;20512680]You're a bit late, the theory of relativity explained this in like 1914 or someshit.[/QUOTE] Can you post the part of relativity which explains this?
Well the next galaxy is 42.000 lightyears away. My mathematics is very rusty, I juggled some numbers and came to the conclusions if you move a stick with 42k LJ 10° in one second the tip would move at 4.172.970.000.000.000.000 km/h But I guess I made a calculation error somewhere :/
[QUOTE=haksword;20512702]Can you post the part of relativity which explains this?[/QUOTE] e=mc^2
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