The unnoticed trend that worries Europe’s counter-terrorism agencies - Polidicks

Arms trafficking takes place on land routes, rather than on ships or planes, the number of seized illicit firearms in Europe has been on the rise for years. [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-counter-terrorsism-agencies-worried-by-unnoticed-trend-a7487076.html[/url]

Look at the list of people surprised here: You possibly cannot stop illegal trafficking. People will always find a way. It's bullshit to blame it on the EU.

The problem are our open EU borders. We intercepted some weapons dealers in Germany who were on their way to France but fuck knows how many just slipped trough.

[QUOTE=Recurracy;51569782]Look at the list of people surprised here: You possibly cannot stop illegal trafficking. People will always find a way. It's bullshit to blame it on the EU.[/QUOTE] You can't stop it, but you can limit it as much as possible. The article says most weapons are smuggled in by EU citizens that are rarely checked when entering the Schengen area. So increase border security and checks for eu citizens like has been done for non-eu citizens. The EU gave us the Schengen area, so they'd better defend the borders surrounding it.

I like how the article manages to spin a terrorism attack with a truck into "hey look you should ALSO be afraid about GUNS!"

[QUOTE=Recurracy;51569782] You possibly cannot stop illegal trafficking. People will always find a way. It's bullshit to blame it on the EU.[/QUOTE] Lol you sure as hell can limit it. Also the rise of recent gun trafficking can easily be blamed on the EU open borders polices.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51569810]Unless they originate in the EU, then they pass borders without issues. How can one argue open borders contribute to this when borders dont stop them?[/QUOTE] well, it would be the difference between one border check and several border checks, one opportunity to get caught smuggling and several opportunities

[quote]“Because of the changing profiles of terrorists, it is easier and cheaper for them to obtain firearms,” said Nils Duquet, senior weapons researcher at the Flemish Peace Institute.[/quote] This is a sentence completely void of any meaning.

[QUOTE=Overhauser;51569892]This is a sentence completely void of any meaning.[/QUOTE] It means that terrorists have gone from poor middle-eastern looking foreigners to people with some money, citizenship and knowledge of the country. Most of the latest terrorist attacks were done by citizens of the respective country.

[QUOTE=rider695;51569909]It means that terrorists have gone from poor middle-eastern looking foreigners to people with some money, citizenship and knowledge of the country. Most of the latest terrorist attacks were done by citizens of the respective country.[/QUOTE] That's not the case for the attack the article is beginning with. What does "some money" mean? Where terrorists not able to get illegal weapons before the rise in trafficking? How is the citizenship connected to arms trafficking? The attack the article uses was done with a truck, the one in Nice with a truck as well. How do you infer what you did from "changing profile" ? The article doesn't say so. This makes no sense.

[QUOTE=Overhauser;51569938]That's not the case for the attack the article is beginning with. What does "some money" mean? How is the citizenship connected to arms trafficking? This makes no sense.[/QUOTE] 1) Any article about terrorism will probably reference the most recent attack 2) enough money to buy the supplies and weaponry needed locally (instead of doing the smuggling themselves, making them less suspicious because they haven't left the country) 3) A EU citizenship makes accessing the schengen area easier even from the outside

Trafficking weapons into and around the European Union is really easy. Even getting firearms from the United States to the EU is really easy. Most people have been using the method of putting illegal firearms under the panels of boats, or putting guns in insulated livewells and transporting them over on the idea of just have a fishing boat. Not to mention you can have people travel out 200km from shore, and meet up with arms trafficking boats at sea who can really easily bring guns back into the EU. Not like anyone is going to check every fishing boat. You also gotta remember that a ton of firearms are being built within the borders of the EU. You got tons of countries in the Balkan area which have guerilla factories which have existed since the breakup wars. I mean christ, look at this [url=http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/]bad girl out of Croatia[/url]. [t]http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/R9ARMSPISTOL1.jpg[/t] These are being manufactured in the thousands along with the ammo needed to use them. This is all being done in legal machine shops, who do work on the side. The only solution to really defeating an illegal arms market which has handgrenades, explosives, and automatic weapons is to make it easier to get access to legal semi-automatic weapons. It's known as the Australian Paradox.

[QUOTE=Overhauser;51569938] How do you infer what you did from "changing profile" ? The article doesn't say so. [/QUOTE] What else could profile mean in this context? He says the terrorists of today don't fit the profile they used to (the first one I described) and has changed.

getting to know a gun dealer is one of the first things that happened in college

[QUOTE=rider695;51569963]1) Any article about terrorism will probably reference the most recent attack 2) enough money to buy the supplies and weaponry needed locally (instead of doing the smuggling themselves, making them less suspicious because they haven't left the country) 3) A EU citizenship makes accessing the schengen area easier even from the outside[/QUOTE] The guy in Nice was from Tunisia, so was the dude from Berlin. The guys from Paris used Aks and blew themselves up with explosives. The "changing profile" seems to be quite diverse. [editline]22nd December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=rider695;51569980]What else could profile mean in this context? He says the terrorists of today don't fit the profile they used to (the first one I described) and has changed.[/QUOTE] I don't know, the article is shitty enough to not say it. It leaves the blanks so we can fill them with our own speculations, that's why I said that the sentence is void of meaning.

[QUOTE=DMGaina;51569787]The problem are our open EU borders. We intercepted some weapons dealers in Germany who were on their way to France but fuck knows how many just slipped trough.[/QUOTE] yes open borders are the problem - except they didn't have a problem getting through the non-open borders that the EU has with the rest of the world, so why would closing other borders help anyone

[QUOTE=Overhauser;51569986]The guy in Nice was from Tunisia, so was the dude from Berlin. The guys from Paris used Aks and blew themselves up with explosives. The "changing profile" seems to be quite diverse. [editline]22nd December 2016[/editline] I don't know, the article is shitty enough to not say it. It leaves the blanks so we can fill them with our own speculations, that's why I said that the sentence is void of meaning.[/QUOTE] The guy in Nice was a permanent resident in France for over 10 years with a job and family. You're right about the dude from Berlin. That's why a profile is a guideline, there are always deviations. Most of the Paris attackers were Belgian or French citizens. 2/3 of your examples were done by domestic terrorists. Add in the recent biggest attacks (Brussels bombing and Bataclan) which were also done by citizens of Belgium and France. [editline]23rd December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE]The researchers fear that extremists with criminal pasts could plan large-scale attacks more easily because of underworld contacts and previous experience dodging the law. [/QUOTE] The paragraph also talks about how the attackers are more connected and experienced. Unlike the old-school terrorists who enter the country without connections and access to nothing beside what they bring in. Fills in the blanks pretty well imo.

The Charlie Hebdo guys got their weapons completely legal as "decorative" weapons btw

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;51570145]yes open borders are the problem - except they didn't have a problem getting through the non-open borders that the EU has with the rest of the world, so why would closing other borders help anyone[/QUOTE] It's called restricting the effect/number silly.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51570242]It's called restricting the effect/number silly.[/QUOTE] Surprising to see Tudd on the side of very strong gun control. At least I assume

Everyone blaming EU about gun trafficking, like other countries do not have this problem. While I agree that controls outside of Europe must be tight, I don't think is to blame to EU about the gun trafficking, is like blaming the US for drug trafficking. Why should a problem always be blamed by EU but a goal always be claimed by a single nation? "Terrorists shoot someone in my european country damn EU" and the terrorist was for example European. "Arm trafficking happens damn EU" while even bordering countries might import them inside."Our school finally got funded thanks *insert your european country*" Is not that a government has eyes everywhere. You cannot fully stop, and surely internal border controls will nullify Schengen and is not even said that it might be a good idea at all.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51570300]Surprising to see Tudd on the side of very strong gun control. At least I assume[/QUOTE] I am for sensible gun control depending on the country and culture. But illegal gun trafficking is always bad and to think that, "Oh even with strong borders it still happens so why do it!" is an argument a person who didn't read the article would make.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51570452]I am for sensible gun control depending on the country and culture. But illegal gun trafficking is always bad and to think that, "Oh even with strong borders it still happens so why do it!" is an argument a person who didn't read the article would make.[/QUOTE] As I said, I am all in for gun controls, but I hate the fact that the EU is always blamed. They cannot be everywhere every time.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51569810]Unless they originate in the EU, then they pass borders without issues. How can one argue open borders contribute to this when borders dont stop them? [editline]23rd December 2016[/editline] Can you change the clickbait title and write what you written on the OP to the title and have another snippet in the OP, OP? If its not too much to ask.[/QUOTE] The title was taken directly from the Independent's source, why am I surprised that you don't like reading anything that goes against your narrative. Oh yeah counter terrorism agencies are wrong and you are right.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51569967]The only solution to really defeating an illegal arms market which has handgrenades, explosives, and automatic weapons is to make it easier to get access to legal semi-automatic weapons. It's known as the Australian Paradox.[/QUOTE] is this a thing? i can see the logic but i can't see it working at all in european countries with stricter gun control, which already works as we need it to for reducing violent gun related crime. do you have a link to any reading about the 'australian paradox'?

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51572235]The title was taken directly from the Independent's source, why am I surprised that you don't like reading anything that goes against your narrative. Oh yeah counter terrorism agencies are wrong and you are right.[/QUOTE] The title is shit and clickbait though.

[QUOTE=meek;51572627]The title is shit and clickbait though.[/QUOTE] Well editorialisting titles is forbidden so take it up with the Independent.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51572782]Only if you make it mean something not given in the article[/QUOTE] The actual research project was funded by the European commision. The facts remain even if it doesn't sit well with you. Also quit with the persecution, you are one of the most aggressive posters when you disagree with others.

A shame the report doesn't specific the origin of most of the weapons. If border checks are what yall want then one would assume the smuggler would have been checked when they first entered europe from (I assume) the balkans and ukraine. [quote]So how easy is it to cross the border into the Schengen area? A look at the chart below helps explain the answer: very easy, in most cases. So far, few EU citizens are thoroughly screened while entering the Schengen zone from outside. Whereas non-EU citizens are frequently asked to stop and have their vehicles searched, EU citizens are mostly allowed to pass.[/quote] This implies that EU citizens are less likely to be searched when they first enter europe (also states that most smugglers are EU citizens) so maybe that's the point of failure. Not sure how realistic it would be to search each and every car either, I like the in the UK and used to go on holidays with my fam to europe via ferry, barely any of the cars were ever searched so aside from searching each and every vehicle I'm not sure what could be done. Maybe more resources put into infiltrating smugglers and coming down on them like a ton of bricks.