Damn fuckin' straight. If we have shit like Postal, Manhunt and so-on on Steam, Hatred shouldn't be excluded even if it ends up sucking hairy bear nuts.
They should at least come out and say where it broke the rules.
Its not really fare to screw one person over the other because they choose to make a certain game.
"If they didn't want it on the [greenlight] service they wouldn't vote for it"
I agree with him on everything but I think this statement has seen a handful of exceptions
steam reserves the right to do what they want, but at least be consistent and transparent if you're going to pull these moves
Either allow every game on steam or be consistent with the ones you don't allow.
I doubt valve will ever give a reply.
They just don't care.
In the end Steam can do what the wants
[QUOTE=onebit;46726623]Consider a child might play this and consider it acceptable behavior, if there is no one else around to tell it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
It has ratings, nobody but the parents are to blame if someone who wasn't supposed to get the game still ends up getting it (in an online environment like Steam).
The people at Valve aren't censoring the game, they are just essentially stating that they don't want anything to do with it, they don't wanna see their names mentioned which I can understand. It will most likely still be easily available to those who want to play it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XiQn2Ay.png[/img]
what exactly is the issue
[QUOTE=papaya;46726657][img]http://i.imgur.com/XiQn2Ay.png[/img]
what exactly is the issue[/QUOTE]
So they're removing all counter-strike games because they contain terrorists?
GTA has become watered down in our society ever since it's release on the PC. What was once a volitile game now is just silly in our minds, what with the Jack Thompson blunders and such. But I'll say this: no game has ever generated as much controversy as Hatred, except possibly Hot Coffee or Mortal Kombat. Therefore, it makes sense for Valve not wanting to put it on their storefront.
I'm sorry Hatred had to be delt the wrong hand, but they brought it upon themselves to make such an angry game, and they have to face the music when their game won't be allowed on storefronts for bring just too dark. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it justified on Valve's part? With all variables considered, yes.
[QUOTE=TomatoFlakes;46726675]So they're removing all counter-strike games because they contain terrorists?[/QUOTE]
The rules for greenlight and the rules for what valve chooses to publish themselves are different
'offensive material' is a very loose term. Yes, you could argue that terrorists are offensive but what is and isn't offensive is at the discretion of Valve.
[QUOTE=papaya;46726695]"b-but manhunt is on steam! postal is on steam! those are games where you kill people!". Those games weren't published through steam greenlight. This is different.[/QUOTE]
Postal was.
[QUOTE=onebit;46726623]Consider a child might play this and consider it acceptable behavior, if there is no one else around to tell it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Have you met any child that thought it was acceptable to go out with a 12 gauge and blow people's faces off?
There is a difference between video games and reality, even a child can tell.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;46726700]Postal was.[/QUOTE]
postal 2 was, which we can use the 'its a parody' argument for
Valve has a policy to shut up if someone wants an answer.
But I am not happy they are doing this.
[QUOTE=papaya;46726712]postal 2 was, which we can use the 'its a parody' argument for[/QUOTE]
Why does it being greenlight change anything?
It should still adhere to the same rules of "This is when we will ban something" as any other game.
[QUOTE=onebit;46726719]You'll see.
You'll see.[/QUOTE]
If a parent buys an M-rated game for their child (or lets the child willingly buy such games on their own at that age), they've basically lost all rights to complain about the game itself in a 'ban this game' kind of way, with how ignorant they've been since they're buying games for eighteen and older.
[QUOTE=onebit;46726719]You'll see.
You'll see.[/QUOTE]
"You'll see" what?
You'll see children go out and start murdering people thinking it's acceptable just like they've been doing with games and movies up until now?
Oh wait
[QUOTE=onebit;46726719]You'll see.[/QUOTE]
Who do you honestly think is to blame from a kid getting to violent video games?
The Developers? Valve?
If its kids we are talking about here, then we are talking about the quality of parenting.
Jeeze, educate parents on proper moderation, how they CAN moderate their kids through these systems.
Some parents haven't played a video game or touched a console, so it can be overwhelming.
If they are too lazy to look after their own kid then shame on them, they should be blamed.
Not the people slaving for hours upon end to work for a game, bad or good.
[QUOTE=onebit;46726623]Consider a child might play this and consider it acceptable behavior, if there is no one else around to tell it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
How would you propose that we improve on that? Steam has parental controls, the legally required age gate and it's digital so you either need to have a credit card or buy a gift card.
It isn't Valve's role to play parent. I wanted to try this game out and I'm an adult. I should be able to purchase it if I want.
not to mention postal, postal 2 and manhunt are all really old games. Could argue that they're there as art, not games. The depiction of violence is a lot more realistic in hatred.
[QUOTE=onebit;46726719]You'll see.
You'll see.[/QUOTE]
Every clinical study that has taken on fictional violence and real world violence has come out and said "there is no correlation".
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the school shooters that played Doom had other emotional problems that went further than playing Doom.
i don't personally see the issue with valve removing this game from steam when it was obviously a PR move. i don't see where they're in the wrong for not wanting to sell a game that glorifies mass murder, and with a main selling point being that it's needlessly edgy.
and before people bring up "but what about gta / postal etc." I'd like to say that gta has way more to do in it aside from mindlessly slaughtering civilians, and it isn't the point of that game. postal is a lot closer to Hatred content-wise, yes, but the main character is obviously seen to be deranged / possessed by a demon (??) and none of the murder is glorified, or depicted nearly as realistically. that entire game is an uncomfortable experience from start to end.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Korova;46726779]How would you propose that we improve on that? Steam has parental controls, the legally required age gate and it's digital so you either need to have a credit card or buy a gift card.
It isn't Valve's role to play parent. I wanted to try this game out and I'm an adult. I should be able to purchase it if I want.[/QUOTE]
like it or not, that doesn't matter. if people saw this game, and then saw that steam was selling it, steam would get shit, no matter how many warnings they had posted on their store page.
[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;46726800]i don't personally see the issue with valve removing this game from steam when it was obviously a PR move. i don't see where they're in the wrong for not wanting to sell a game that glorifies mass murder, and with a main selling point being that it's needlessly edgy.[/QUOTE]
I see a huge issue with this. They gladly remove a game to save their own skin but to remove all the crap and scams and protect customers is not something they're interested in. Very scummy.
This game is a PR nightmare, I understand Steam's decision.
[QUOTE=booster;46726831]This game is a PR nightmare, I understand Steam's decision.[/QUOTE]
Postal 2's reaction was arguably worse.
[QUOTE=papaya;46726657][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XiQn2Ay.png[/IMG]
what exactly is the issue[/QUOTE]
Because stuff like this is sold/ is going to be sold on steam
[video=youtube;umR1-3q-rPw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umR1-3q-rPw[/video]
[video=youtube;SrslTmz8vLk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrslTmz8vLk[/video]
[video=youtube;gXBDkevx5lM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBDkevx5lM[/video]
but hatred isn't.
[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;46726800]i don't personally see the issue with valve removing this game from steam when it was obviously a PR move. i don't see where they're in the wrong for not wanting to sell a game that glorifies mass murder, and with a main selling point being that it's needlessly edgy.
and before people bring up "but what about gta / postal etc." I'd like to say that gta has way more to do in it aside from mindlessly slaughtering civilians, and it isn't the point of that game. postal is a lot closer to Hatred content-wise, yes, but the main character is obviously seen to be deranged / possessed by a demon (??) and none of the murder is glorified, or depicted nearly as realistically. that entire game is an uncomfortable experience from start to end.
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
like it or not, that doesn't matter. if people saw this game, and then saw that steam was selling it, steam would get shit, no matter how many warnings they had posted on their store page.[/QUOTE]
And what does that matter? Valve isn't Walmart and it isn't Gamestop. It is a digital storefront for PC gamers, PC gamers are generally enthusiast users that are really into gaming. Hatred being available on Steam wouldn't stop anybody from using Steam.
Valve could spin the narrative and come out and say "Video games are an artistic medium just like film and there are certainly films out there with questionable content. We will not censor the storefront and our community-driven Greenlight program unless it violates the terms of service or the law."
Instead, they're hypocrites that sell equally objectionable content.
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