Rolling Stone Article on Rape at University of Virginia Failed All Basics, Report Says - Polidicks

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/06/business/media/rolling-stone-retracts-article-on-rape-at-university-of-virginia.html?_r=0[/url] [QUOTE]Rolling Stone magazine retracted its article about a brutal gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity after the release of a report on Sunday that concluded the widely discredited piece was the result of failures at every stage of the process. The report, published by the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism and commissioned by Rolling Stone, said the magazine failed to engage in “basic, even routine journalistic practice” to verify details of the ordeal that the magazine’s source, identified only as Jackie, described to the article’s author, Sabrina Rubin Erdely. On Sunday, Ms. Erdely, in her first extensive comments since the article was cast into doubt, apologized to Rolling Stone’s readers, her colleagues and “any victims of sexual assault who may feel fearful as a result of my article.” In an interview discussing Columbia’s findings, Jann S. Wenner, the publisher of Rolling Stone, acknowledged the piece’s flaws but said that it represented an isolated and unusual episode and that Ms. Erdely would continue to write for the magazine. The problems with the article started with its source, Mr. Wenner said. He described her as “a really expert fabulist storyteller” who managed to manipulate the magazine’s journalism process. When asked to clarify, he said that he was not trying to blame Jackie, “but obviously there is something here that is untruthful, and something sits at her doorstep.[/QUOTE] The people involved in this should be fired.

This is some next level professionalism right here

It certainly seems to be the era of rape hysteria and literary media is acting accordingly, despite the fact the prevalence of rape in the US has dropped by some magnitude over the past 20 years, well before college rape became the hot button topic it is now. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg/800px-Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg[/img] with regards to the author of the article in question, its such an egregious fuck up on multiple levels that I don't see how it could have been a "mistake". Its almost as if she penned complete bullshit knowing that in the current social climate it would be a cherished piece and no one would question it.

[quote]but obviously there is something here that is untruthful, and something sits at her doorstep.[/quote] So this story has taken a Lovecraftian turn now has it?

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47466584]It certainly seems to be the era of rape hysteria and literary media is acting accordingly, despite the fact the prevalence of rape in the US has dropped by some magnitude over the past 20 years, well before college rape became the hot button topic it is now. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg/800px-Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg[/img] with regards to the author of the article in question, its such an egregious fuck up on multiple levels that I don't see how it could have been a "mistake". Its almost as if she penned complete bullshit knowing that in the current social climate it would be a cherished piece and no one would question it.[/QUOTE] To be fairly honest it is pretty hard to monitor rape cases because in order for a rape case to be recorded in a statistic, it actually needs to be reported to begin with. The reason rape statistics are higher in some otherwise progressive countries is partly because more rapes are actually getting reported.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47466604]To be fairly honest it is pretty hard to monitor rape cases because in order for a rape case to be recorded in a statistic, it actually needs to be reported to begin with. The reason rape statistics are higher in some otherwise progressive countries is partly because more rapes are actually getting reported.[/QUOTE] Other countries also have different definition of what rape is. What I don't get is why are you coming up with other countries when this diagram shows a decline over time in the USA. How do you even get the information about unreported rapes when they go unreported?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47466604]To be fairly honest it is pretty hard to monitor rape cases because in order for a rape case to be recorded in a statistic, it actually needs to be reported to begin with. The reason rape statistics are higher in some otherwise progressive countries is partly because more rapes are actually getting reported.[/QUOTE] I dont buy it. With the sheer exposure of rape psas, support programs, mandatory sexual harassment classes in businesses and institutions, I don't buy the idea that rape victims are somehow more fearful to come forward in 2015 USA than they were in [B]1978[/B] USA. So even if the statistics on rape don't reflect the real prevalence of rape, I think its safe to say the trend is downward, not upward despite the culture of hysteria around the issue. The fact of it is by every meta-analysis available, violent crime of all types has been declining rather significantly since 1970 onwards. Thats not a promise things will continue to stay this way, but it is an indication that the hysteria is unfounded. Rapes aren't more prevalent in the US than before.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47466626]I dont buy it. With the sheer exposure of rape psas, support programs, mandatory sexual harassment classes in businesses and institutions, I don't buy the idea that rape victims are somehow more fearful to come forward in 2015 USA than they were in [B]1978[/B] USA. So even if the statistics on rape don't reflect the real prevalence of rape, I think its safe to say the trend is downward, not upward despite the culture of hysteria around the issue. The fact of it is by every meta-analysis available, violent crime of all types has been declining rather significantly since 1970 onwards. Thats not a promise things will continue to stay this way, but it is an indication that the hysteria is unfounded. Rapes aren't more prevalent in the US than before.[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean there are no rapes that happen today and it doesn't mean they're any less horrendous than they were in the 70s. [editline]6th April 2015[/editline] What's the issue with trying to keep that "declining rate" going downward?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47466642]Doesn't mean there are no rapes that happen today and it doesn't mean they're any less horrendous than they were in the 70s. [editline]6th April 2015[/editline] What's the issue with trying to keep that "declining rate" going downward?[/QUOTE] It depends on how what measures you're taking and the attitudes you hold. A lot of it in particular has to do with the recent notion that cultures, atmospheres, and groups rather than individuals are more responsible for rape, so those collective entities ought to be targeted. It leads to an uncomfortable, frankly odious sort of kulturkampf that only serves to isolate and push apart different spheres of society. Just for instance, a lot of colleges in reaction to the Rolling Stones article (as well as other news around the "rape culture" they foster) began cracking down on the autonomy of their Fraternities. While that will definitely decrease potential rapes, in many senses it also sacrifices a large part of what makes a fraternal order attractive. In light of [I]the Rolling Stones article being an outright fabrication,[/I] that makes the remedy seem a bit absurd, particularly when you consider the factual claim that rapes have been decreasing with no special action that has unwanted side-effects being taken in the first place. Hanging a villager is fine, but hanging the village is not.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47466642]Doesn't mean there are no rapes that happen today and it doesn't mean they're any less horrendous than they were in the 70s. [editline]6th April 2015[/editline] What's the issue with trying to keep that "declining rate" going downward?[/QUOTE] The issue becomes when outright lies are being told to further a culture of hysteria and when "good intention" plans end up ruining the lives of innocent people. see: title IX kangaroo courts, the drop in male student participation in tertiary education The issue is that declining rate had nothing to do with this current hysteria. The rate was dropping steadily since 1980, again, well before this became a hot issue, well before feminism reached the academic and social proliferation it has achieved today. With the way its paraded around today, the average person thinks rape is an actual epidemic on college campuses, but its not. You're creating a culture of fear and paranoia, and one where men are told they are, at best, "potential rapist" at any given time. "Doesn't mean there are no rapes that happen today and it doesn't mean they're any less horrendous than they were in the 70s." This is a completely meaningless statement. Are murders not horrendous too? Do murders not happen too? Homicide is at some 30 year low too, and yet the violent cessation of someone's life doesn't seem to carry the sheer culture reverence that rape has built up off the back of feminist driven hysteria. You keep the rate declining downward by doing the things that actual have an impact on violent crime, not by penning a complete fabrication and furthering hysteria.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47466692] the drop in male student participation in tertiary education [/QUOTE] Did you just insinuate men don't go to college for fear of being deemed a rapist?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47466642]Doesn't mean there are no rapes that happen today and it doesn't mean they're any less horrendous than they were in the 70s. [editline]6th April 2015[/editline] What's the issue with trying to keep that "declining rate" going downward?[/QUOTE] No issue, but a moral panic and the extreme measures that come with it aren't going to help. Things are evidently getting better with the current methods, no need to get everyone worked up and paranoid over it.

I think the worst part of this whole thing is that it will probably be used as an excuse to discredit actual victims of rape. When somebody lies about having been raped, it is a tiny push towards discrediting real rape victims. When somebody lies about having been raped and they are given a huge fucking platform to peddle their lies, their words have that much more of an effect. Truth is that people still rape people. Another truth is that when there is a crisis, there will always be people who will jump at the chance to use it for their own gain with zero thought for anybody else or for the consequences of their actions. It is our duty to tolerate neither of those things and do what we can to stop them.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47466604]To be fairly honest it is pretty hard to monitor rape cases because in order for a rape case to be recorded in a statistic, it actually needs to be reported to begin with. The reason rape statistics are higher in some otherwise progressive countries is partly because more rapes are actually getting reported.[/QUOTE] This would be an argument but at the same time(German statistics) the number of false reports is SKYROCKETING.

[QUOTE=Killuah;47466882]This would be an argument but at the same time(German statistics) the number of false reports is SKYROCKETING.[/QUOTE] This is why a punishment should be conjured for falsely reporting rape (or falsley accusing anyone for any crime they didn't commit). People need to face consequences when tey fabricate lies for their own gain that ruin the lives of others.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47466692]The issue becomes when outright lies are being told to further a culture of hysteria and when "good intention" plans end up ruining the lives of innocent people. see: title IX kangaroo courts, the drop in male student participation in tertiary education The issue is that declining rate had nothing to do with this current hysteria. The rate was dropping steadily since 1980, again, well before this became a hot issue, well before feminism reached the academic and social proliferation it has achieved today. With the way its paraded around today, the average person thinks rape is an actual epidemic on college campuses, but its not. You're creating a culture of fear and paranoia, and one where men are told they are, at best, "potential rapist" at any given time. "Doesn't mean there are no rapes that happen today and it doesn't mean they're any less horrendous than they were in the 70s." This is a completely meaningless statement. Are murders not horrendous too? Do murders not happen too? Homicide is at some 30 year low too, and yet the violent cessation of someone's life doesn't seem to carry the sheer culture reverence that rape has built up off the back of feminist driven hysteria. You keep the rate declining downward by doing the things that actual have an impact on violent crime, not by penning a complete fabrication and furthering hysteria.[/QUOTE] Murder is a really poor comparison, how many rapes go unreported vs murders? And what about the culture of making rape jokes or references, is the supposed "feminist hysteria" not just a counterbalance to that?

This is outrageous

[QUOTE=butt2089;47467025]Murder is a really poor comparison, how many rapes go unreported vs murders? And what about the culture of making rape jokes or references, is the supposed "feminist hysteria" not just a counterbalance to that?[/QUOTE] 100% of murder victims never report it.

[QUOTE=butt2089;47467025] And what about the culture of making rape jokes or references, is the supposed "feminist hysteria" not just a counterbalance to that?[/QUOTE] There are so many more murder jokes compared to rape ones though. Not only that, murder ones are mostly socially acceptable too.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47466584]It certainly seems to be the era of rape hysteria and literary media is acting accordingly, despite the fact the prevalence of rape in the US has dropped by some magnitude over the past 20 years, well before college rape became the hot button topic it is now. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg/800px-Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg[/img] with regards to the author of the article in question, its such an egregious fuck up on multiple levels that I don't see how it could have been a "mistake". Its almost as if she penned complete bullshit knowing that in the current social climate it would be a cherished piece and no one would question it.[/QUOTE] That graph still shows there being 150,000 rapes per year in the US - what's your point exactly?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47466710]Did you just insinuate men don't go to college for fear of being deemed a rapist?[/QUOTE] Something interesting to note is that young men are doing worse and worse in schools these days. Unrelated to rape, though.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;47467552]That graph still shows there being 150,000 rapes per year in the US - what's your point exactly?[/QUOTE] Something that clearly went over your head. Media and society has been acting as if there's been some rape epidemic over the past few years, being at an all time high, and getting worse. However, the statistics show that it's at an all time [I]low,[/I] and getting better.

And yet, the 'journalist' is still not fired.

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;47467954]And yet, the 'journalist' is still not fired.[/QUOTE] Time to start #JournalismGate ?

[QUOTE=Radley;47466964]This is why a punishment should be conjured for falsely reporting rape (or falsley accusing anyone for any crime they didn't commit). People need to face consequences when tey fabricate lies for their own gain that ruin the lives of others.[/QUOTE] There already is, filing false police reports is illegal. Making laws against false rape accusations specifically could backfire and make rape victims less likely to report their rape because of worry that it would be deemed false.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47466584]It certainly seems to be the era of rape hysteria and literary media is acting accordingly, despite the fact the prevalence of rape in the US has dropped by some magnitude over the past 20 years, well before college rape became the hot button topic it is now. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg/800px-Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg[/img] with regards to the author of the article in question, its such an egregious fuck up on multiple levels that I don't see how it could have been a "mistake". Its almost as if she penned complete bullshit knowing that in the current social climate it would be a cherished piece and no one would question it.[/QUOTE] I still have to sit through 3-5 presentations a semester saying how one in 5 women will be raped on campus by male students there. Statistically half my class should have been raped by then. There needs to be more objectivity and more modern statistics, everyone always quotes that one report that has been discredited already.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47467962]Time to start #JournalismGate ?[/QUOTE] idk why no one is really doing this instead of what's happening now "oh no my video game journalism is corrupt, who cares about the stories that millions upon millions of people look at and trust"

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;47469386]idk why no one is really doing this instead of what's happening now "oh no my video game journalism is corrupt, who cares about the stories that millions upon millions of people look at and trust"[/QUOTE] Gotta start somewhere. But tabloids and clickbait sites have been breeding shitty journalistic standards for awhile, but the average person either doesn't care about it, or willingly eats that up raw.

[QUOTE=Van-man;47469413]Gotta start somewhere. But tabloids and clickbait sites have been breeding shitty journalistic standards for awhile, but the average person either doesn't care about it, or willingly eats that up raw.[/QUOTE] Then make them care. People have been bashing shitty news journalism for a while, I'm sure with enough effort you could change a lot of things. [editline]6th April 2015[/editline] Legitimately surprised no one has transitioned to "all media" instead of just games journalism considering that whole incident where the media was only reporting the side of the story they didn't like.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;47469386]idk why no one is really doing this instead of what's happening now "oh no my video game journalism is corrupt, who cares about the stories that millions upon millions of people look at and trust"[/QUOTE] Honestly? Big journalism is fucked and we can't reform it. Time magazine, and other equally large publications are running "ad stories". Ads that are entirely indistinguishable from stories. Yes, it's a much bigger issue. Much more important. Tell me, how are you going to do it or are you just going to sit in your armchair and tell the only movement attempting ANYTHING like this that they're idiots wasting their time?