US Muslims raise $30,000 to help repair black Christian churches destroyed by fire - Polidicks

[IMG]http://cdn1.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article31362380.ece/c7cd7/ALTERNATES/w620/v2-Briar-Creek.jpg[/IMG] [URL]http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-muslims-raise-30000-to-help-repair-black-christian-churches-destroyed-by-fire-31362383.html[/URL] [quote] When Faatimah Knight reached out to her Muslim friends and acquaintances to try and help black churches that had been destroyed by fire, she had no idea how much they could raise. Today, they have managed to raise just under $30,000 – money that will be used to help up to seven churches that were destroyed in the American south in the aftermath of the Charleston shooting and the campaign against the Confederate flag. “We have been overwhelmed by how generous people have been,” Ms Knight, 23, told The Independent. “We will stop it today...We will figure out how to distribute the money.” Ms Knight’s campaign – carried out as Muslims around the world marked the festival of Ramadan - followed a smaller, more modest enterprise she had set in action in the days after the shooting dead of nine people at Charleston’s Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church on June 17. She and some friends wanted to raise $500 to send flowers; they ended up raising $900. And when she and the same friends read about the series of churches that were burned down and the probe by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, they similarly wanted to act.[/quote] "Where are the moderate Muslims at" sounds like "Where are the good negros at" — they're everywhere.

ramadan and eid are about charity and generosity so

A nice gesture, but damn, I have a feeling $30,000 is only a sliver of what they need for a full repair.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;48155472]A nice gesture, but damn, I have a feeling $30,000 is only a sliver of what they need for a full repair.[/QUOTE] It's still better than the $0 they had received before to repair it. Plus, a news article about it will probably lead to lots of similar fundraisers in the future.

The last month or so I've been pleasantly surprised by the positive reception Muslims seem to be getting in the press.

I know it's not true, but every single time I hear of a church going outside it's religion to help others I subconsciously think it's a dig at them, rather than just people being nice.

Its great that they are raising money and all but $30,000 really isnt a whole lot when its split 7 ways.

[QUOTE=Cmx;48155842]Its great that they are raising money and all but $30,000 really isnt a whole lot when its split 7 ways.[/QUOTE] 30,000 dollars split 7 ways is still more than 0 dollars split 7 ways.

[QUOTE=Cmx;48155842]Its great that they are raising money and all but $30,000 really isnt a whole lot when its split 7 ways.[/QUOTE] It'll go a lot further than $30,000 would to just about anywhere else. Churches tend to have a large variety of professions attending that are more than willing to help out their church with their skills for free. Not to mention I'm sure they can find someone selling the physical materials necessary that will cut them some sort of deal given what they've been through.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;48155472]A nice gesture, but damn, I have a feeling $30,000 is only a sliver of what they need for a full repair.[/QUOTE] It's a hell of a lot of money for a very local fundraiser however. This isnt cancer or ebola we're talkjng about, it is a handful of small churches. I've been involved pretty heavily in orchestrating and running charities, and $30k is far from small potatoes at this level, especially when you consider that much of the damages were likely covered by insurance. With these donations, the churches won't just be able to rebuild, they'll be able to build something substantially better, and not just in terms of literal constructing work. This can expand their own social work and minor charities, giving more resources to the church run shelters, soup kitchens, etc.

The saddest part about church arson, especially in the south, isn't how it damages the congregation. A congregation can meet wherever - I know people who have church in their basements. The saddest part is that churches tend to be some of the oldest buildings in small towns, and they're huge landmarks and people are very proud of the 18th or 19th-century churches they have. A church in my town was burnt to the ground in an arson attack a couple years ago. Beautiful church, in the historical district, that had been in the town for over a century. Gone because some dumb kid hated religion. It's sad as fuck to see old churches burn to the ground because they're some of the oldest and most well-designed buildings built in the south. The congregation can recover, they can find other places of worship, they can rebuild - but the original building is usually gone forever and the new one is modernized and boring.

[QUOTE=Cmx;48155842]Its great that they are raising money and all but[/QUOTE] The fact you say "raising money [B]and all — but[/B]" reveals you are not being genuine in your assessment. When people append "...and all" and "but" to the end their recognition, it is because they are trying to deliberately belittle the work, "It's cool and all" I don't think these people can do an action that would warrant a genuine characterization on your part. The money is being split 7 ways because they don't have the sole responsibility of repairing their society, its a community-responsibility, and they have done their part. You don't see it often for people to say "that is not enough" in an article about volunteer charity.

Jesus christ you guys, "Wow it's awesome that they donated a shitload of money to people that the media says are butting heads with them, BUT IT AINT ENUGH HRUHURRR" For fuck's sake

[QUOTE=Starpluck;48156402]The fact you say "raising money [B]and all — but[/B]" reveals you are not being genuine in your assessment. When people append "...and all" and "but" to the end their recognition, it is because they are trying to deliberately belittle the work, "It's cool and all" I don't think these people can do an action that would warrant a genuine characterization on your part. The money is being split 7 ways because they don't have the sole responsibility of repairing their society, its a community-responsibility, and they have done their part. You don't see it often for people to say "that is not enough" in an article about volunteer charity.[/QUOTE] I think you're reading too far into a simple observation that roughly ~$4200 per burned church is just not a whole lot. I think this is great and I'm glad to see this type of interaction between two religions that the media here would like everyone to believe cannot get along. It is true however that it's a relatively small amount of money.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;48156458]I think you're reading too far into a simple observation that roughly ~$4200 per burned church is just not a whole lot. I think this is great and I'm glad to see this type of interaction between two religions that the media here would like everyone to believe cannot get along. It is true however that it's a relatively small amount of money.[/QUOTE] Do you expect them to singlehandedly shoulder the responsibility of rebuilding these churches? Thirty thousand dollars from a single source for local charities is huge. Seruously, that's massive. With only $20k in initial donations, my family's charity was able to make the partnerships, sponsorships, and necessary connections to organize and host an event in downtown Saint Louis that over 120,000 people attended, and which led to hosting other (albeit smaller) events in a dozen other cities. Getting this kind of money from a single donation is NOT inconsequential. Combined with everything else, it presents a pretty incredible opportunity for these churches to grow. Insurance will cover most, or all, of the physical rebuilding costs. These donations represent "extra" money for them to not just recover, but to become stronger than they were before.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;48155470]ramadan and eid are about charity and generosity so[/QUOTE] not to mention charity is one of the five pillars of Islam, separate from Ramadan

How lovely of them. This is what true Islam means, what true Muslims are taught to do, why I have no qualms about associating with a Muslim. They're nice folk. It's a shame the media wants to gloss over it and try to portray the extremists as the norm.

[QUOTE=TestECull;48157055]How lovely of them. This is what true Islam means, what true Muslims are taught to do, why I have no qualms about associating with a Muslim. They're nice folk. It's a shame the media wants to gloss over it and try to portray the extremists as the norm.[/QUOTE] Who are you to say what "true Islam" is. That's the problem with the religion. Nobody is an authority on how to properly interpret the texts. While I wish all Muslims interpreted their books this way, and were peaceful and good people, the reality is that there is a lot of justification for violence in the books as well.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;48156402]The fact you say "raising money [B]and all — but[/B]" reveals you are not being genuine in your assessment. When people append "...and all" and "but" to the end their recognition, it is because they are trying to deliberately belittle the work, "It's cool and all" [/QUOTE] ok [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply? — doesn't want to be here" - Starpluck))[/highlight]

Honestly, it seems more like black people who happen to be Muslim helping other black people. In the article she clearly states that she identifies with them as a black person, and the HelpGood page where the donations are being accepted is based on helping a black church specifically. Here's the only section typed in bold from the donation page: "We must always keep in mind that the Muslim community and the black community are not different communities. We are profoundly integrated in many ways, in our overlapping identities and in our relationship to this great and complicated country. We are connected to Black churches through our extended families, our friends and teachers, and our intertwined histories and convergent present." and a quote from her personal twitter (basically every tweet she's done is about racial activism): "Black lives - and churches - matter" ([URL]https://twitter.com/faatimahknight/status/618819218507702272[/URL]) Sadly, I don't think this would have happened if the churches had been white churches. With all that said, I still applaud her for going out of her way to help those in need.

[QUOTE=sgman91;48157560]Honestly, it seems more like black people [B]who happen to be Muslim [/B]helping[/quote] If only you would rush to post this here when an Islamist terrorist makes the news as you did now. It seems when we have an act of murder by a Muslim — we suddenly forget that they happen to be Muslim and begin to push the narrative that this is a widening problem that encompasses not one Muslim — but many who profess to be Muslim. When we have an act of good-will by a Muslim, we remember they are simply human beings and begin seek to discard their faith immediately as witnessed with "she just happens to be Muslim" The nearly polar-opposite reactions that occur here are visible, and in affect — concerning because it reveals to us how much the media has succeeded in distorting and deceiving some other people's viewpoint. [quote]Sadly, I don't think this would have happened if the churches had been white churches.[/quote] White communities possess a remarkably superior socioeconomic advantage, further — White Churches are rarely targeted in manner as black one's are. Perhaps at a distant or fictional time when white oppression becomes systematic and widespread in the United States — we will see these same grassroots efforts in rebuilding our white communities. [quote]With all that said, I still applaud her for going out of her way to help those in need.[/QUOTE] Only after nearly 3 paragraphs later pontificating on why you do not believe in this, you include this. Again, you are someone who believes Christianity should have credence in our community with the ten commandments posted in government buildings — so I don't expect you to fairly hold other Muslims in good light as long as you believe in religious superiority.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;48157734]If only you would rush to post this here when an Islamist terrorist makes the news as you did now. It seems when we have an act of murder by a Muslim — we suddenly forget that they happen to be Muslim and begin to push the narrative that this is a widening problem that encompasses not one Muslim — but many who profess to be Muslim. When we have an act of good-will by a Muslim, we remember they are simply human beings and begin seek to discard their faith immediately as witnessed with "she just happens to be Muslim" The nearly polar-opposite reactions that occur here are visible, and in affect — concerning because it reveals to us how much the media has succeeded in distorting and deceiving some other people's viewpoint.[/QUOTE] I won't respond to generalities. If you want to critique something I've said, then please specify where I've said it and I'll defend myself. I'm not responsible for the responses of others. This woman is the one who's directly conflated race with her donation, not me. [QUOTE]White communities possess a remarkably superior socioeconomic advantage, further — White Churches are rarely targeted in manner as black one's are. Perhaps at a distant or fictional time when white oppression becomes systematic and widespread in the United States — we will see these same grassroots efforts in rebuilding our white communities.[/QUOTE] I think you missed the point. She specifically chose to help this cause because the victims were black, not because they were poor, or because they needed help more than anyone else, or because they were Christian, etc... but because they were black. She identifies with their blackness. [QUOTE]Only after nearly 3 paragraphs later pontificating on why you do not believe in this, you include this. Again, you are someone who believes Christianity should have credence in our community with the ten commandments posted in government buildings — so I don't expect you to fairly hold other Muslims in good light as long as you believe in religious superiority.[/QUOTE] I can think that a person is flawed and also applaud their actions where it applies. People are multifaceted. I'm not the one seeing the world in black and white, you are.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;48157734]If only you would rush to post this here when an Islamist terrorist makes the news as you did now. It seems when we have an act of murder by a Muslim — we suddenly forget that they happen to be Muslim and begin to push the narrative that this is a widening problem that encompasses not one Muslim — but many who profess to be Muslim. When we have an act of good-will by a Muslim, we remember they are simply human beings and begin seek to discard their faith immediately as witnessed with "she just happens to be Muslim" The nearly polar-opposite reactions that occur here are visible, and in affect — concerning because it reveals to us how much the media has succeeded in distorting and deceiving some other people's viewpoint. White communities possess a remarkably superior socioeconomic advantage, further — White Churches are rarely targeted in manner as black one's are. Perhaps at a distant or fictional time when white oppression becomes systematic and widespread in the United States — we will see these same grassroots efforts in rebuilding our white communities. Only after nearly 3 paragraphs later pontificating on why you do not believe in this, you include this. Again, you are someone who believes Christianity should have credence in our community with the ten commandments posted in government buildings — so I don't expect you to fairly hold other Muslims in good light as long as you believe in religious superiority.[/QUOTE] Why do half your posts seem to be attempting to accuse people of being anti-Islam by some ridiculous Freudian psychoanalysis? Is it so hard to believe that not every single person has an ulterior motive for thinking things?

[QUOTE=teh pirate;48158033]Why do half your posts seem to be attempting to accuse people of being anti-Islam by some ridiculous Freudian psychoanalysis? Is it so hard to believe that not every single person has an ulterior motive for thinking things?[/QUOTE] Starpluck, BDA, etc. all like to respond to what they think you meant to say instead of what you actually say. I believe their black and white vision of the world where anyone disagrees with them must be coming from malicious intent is to blame. You get used to it.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;48157734]If only you would rush to post this here when an Islamist terrorist makes the news as you did now. It seems when we have an act of murder by a Muslim — we suddenly forget that they happen to be Muslim and begin to push the narrative that this is a widening problem that encompasses not one Muslim — but many who profess to be Muslim. When we have an act of good-will by a Muslim, we remember they are simply human beings and begin seek to discard their faith immediately as witnessed with "she just happens to be Muslim" The nearly polar-opposite reactions that occur here are visible, and in affect — concerning because it reveals to us how much the media has succeeded in distorting and deceiving some other people's viewpoint. ... Only after nearly 3 paragraphs later pontificating on why you do not believe in this, you include this. Again, you are someone who believes Christianity should have credence in our community with the ten commandments posted in government buildings — so I don't expect you to fairly hold other Muslims in good light as long as you believe in religious superiority.[/QUOTE] i think you're projecting onto him a little unfairly here. it's understandable to be upset at the attitudes that fan the flames of islamophobia, but it's unfair to put your frustration with those attitudes on people who aren't even expressing them.

It's a lovely gesture, and a testament to good community-mindedness, but... don't these churches have insurance that would cover something like this? Or does someone deliberately burning your building down void most insurance policies?

[QUOTE=Starpluck;48157734]If only you would rush to post this here when an Islamist terrorist makes the news as you did now. It seems when we have an act of murder by a Muslim — we suddenly forget that they happen to be Muslim and begin to push the narrative that this is a widening problem that encompasses not one Muslim — but many who profess to be Muslim. When we have an act of good-will by a Muslim, we remember they are simply human beings and begin seek to discard their faith immediately as witnessed with "she just happens to be Muslim" The nearly polar-opposite reactions that occur here are visible, and in affect — concerning because it reveals to us how much the media has succeeded in distorting and deceiving some other people's viewpoint. White communities possess a remarkably superior socioeconomic advantage, further — White Churches are rarely targeted in manner as black one's are. Perhaps at a distant or fictional time when white oppression becomes systematic and widespread in the United States — we will see these same grassroots efforts in rebuilding our white communities. Only after nearly 3 paragraphs later pontificating on why you do not believe in this, you include this. Again, you are someone who believes Christianity should have credence in our community with the ten commandments posted in government buildings — so I don't expect you to fairly hold other Muslims in good light as long as you believe in religious superiority.[/QUOTE] This is an odd post. In your first paragraph, you (seemingly) attempt to say that their religion is part of the reason why they decided to donate this money because you criticize sgman for "discarding their faith" (correct me if I'm wrong). Then in your second paragraph you explain that they wouldn't have donated (or would be less likely to donate) to "white churches" because "white churches" have a socioeconomic advantage. So are you implying that the religious beliefs of these Muslims tell them to donate to black churches and not white ones?

[QUOTE=sgman91;48157560]Honestly, it seems more like black people who happen to be Muslim helping other black people. In the article she clearly states that she identifies with them as a black person, and the HelpGood page where the donations are being accepted is based on helping a black church specifically. Here's the only section typed in bold from the donation page: "We must always keep in mind that the Muslim community and the black community are not different communities. We are profoundly integrated in many ways, in our overlapping identities and in our relationship to this great and complicated country. We are connected to Black churches through our extended families, our friends and teachers, and our intertwined histories and convergent present." and a quote from her personal twitter (basically every tweet she's done is about racial activism): "Black lives - and churches - matter" ([URL]https://twitter.com/faatimahknight/status/618819218507702272[/URL]) Sadly, I don't think this would have happened if the churches had been white churches. With all that said, I still applaud her for going out of her way to help those in need.[/QUOTE] Why would white churches need donations? Let's not forget that these churches had received little to no aid before this money was raised. The whole point the woman is making is that Muslim communities and Black communities are linked in the United States because both are the targets of systemic oppression. That's as good a reason as any to give them aid.

[QUOTE=archangel125;48159575]Why would white churches need donations? Let's not forget that these churches had received little to no aid before this money was raised. The whole point the woman is making is that Muslim communities and Black communities are linked in the United States because both are the targets of systemic oppression. That's as good a reason as any to give them aid.[/QUOTE] I'm positing a hypothetical situation where something extremely comparable happens, but the churches have a majority white attendance instead of a majority black attendance. Let's say an extremely poor (also a target of systematic oppression) white church was attacked for some hateful reason, the specifics are not important. I don't believe that this woman would have done the same thing based on the intensity with which she focuses on the churches being black as opposed to simply being victims in need of help. [editline]9th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;48159491]It's a lovely gesture, and a testament to good community-mindedness, but... don't these churches have insurance that would cover something like this? Or does someone deliberately burning your building down void most insurance policies?[/QUOTE] From what I can tell it would be covered by insurance.

[QUOTE=sgman91;48159926]I'm positing a hypothetical situation where something extremely comparable happens, but the churches have a majority white attendance instead of a majority black attendance. Let's say an extremely poor (also a target of systematic oppression) white church was attacked for some hateful reason, the specifics are not important. I don't believe that this woman would have done the same thing based on the intensity with which she focuses on the churches being black as opposed to simply being victims in need of help.[/QUOTE] I think a very large part of charity is giving money to something you empathize with. Obviously she empathized with this black community. Likewise there are certainly people who would empathize with a poor white church that did not donate any money to this one.